McCain vs. Obama

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Who will get your vote?

Obama
11
14%
McCain
65
86%
 
Total votes : 76

Postby devildog28 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:14 am

I don't think it's a sure thing that Obama will get elected, because a lot of the hillary dems are going to vote for mccain
Last edited by devildog28 on Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby grunt_doc » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:16 am

devildog28 wrote:
Think about that before you think the answer is not voting.


X2 on not voting.

The way I see it, not voting is the same as saying "I don't care" when someone asks you what you want to eat. If you don't make your opinion known, I'm going to drop a steamy duce onto a kaiser roll and hand it to you. maybe add some paprika, who knows, we'll see where it takes us. Just smile when you take a bite. After all, you said you didn't care...

We are going to be handed a similar sh!t sandwich after the election. I will not, however look like this: :smile: I'm not going to say I don't care. I'm not going to say"Anyone but ____" I will make my choice and then have firm ground to bitch from.

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Postby huntingdude16 » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:41 am

Thats just it, I DO care. It's just that there is not, 'lesser evil' between the two in my eyes. Both stand for issues I can not vote for.


Though, I think I may retract my statement of not voting.

I've been looking through the Barr website, and as far as I can tell I like him better better than frik and frac.

He at least seems to be the most pro-gun of them.
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Postby CLUTCHfan » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:09 pm

Whoa, at no point did I say I wasn't voting. I just don't think I'm going to vote for Obama or McCain. I always vote, and always have. Barr doesn't have a chance in hell either, but voting for him is at least making a statement.

Hillary's supporters aren't going to be voting for McCain, contrary to what some people believe. If they are mindless enough to have supported her in the first place, it's not going to be difficult to sway them to vote for Obama.

My prediction for New York in this election is Obama with 75% of the vote. Doesn't make me happy, but I'm a realist.
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Postby devildog28 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:34 am

CLUTCHfan wrote:Whoa, at no point did I say I wasn't voting. I just don't think I'm going to vote for Obama or McCain. I always vote, and always have. Barr doesn't have a chance in hell either, but voting for him is at least making a statement.

Hillary's supporters aren't going to be voting for McCain, contrary to what some people believe. If they are mindless enough to have supported her in the first place, it's not going to be difficult to sway them to vote for Obama.

My prediction for New York in this election is Obama with 75% of the vote. Doesn't make me happy, but I'm a realist.


I'm in agreement with you that he'll get NY. I think CA and IL are sure bets. But TX will go McCain and a lot of the smaller states might just add up to be enough for the GOP to win.
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Postby fenton_3 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:48 am

Don't Vote = Can't Bitch
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Postby grunt_doc » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:59 am

I can't wait for the popular vote bitching to start.
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Postby devildog28 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:06 am

grunt_doc wrote:I can't wait for the popular vote bitching to start.


Does that mean you think that if McCain gets the electoral votes that the popular people are going to cry a river? I kind of have the same viewpoint.
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Postby grunt_doc » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:14 am

Yep. It was the same for the Dem's primary...They can't seem to understand what the EC is there for. If we went to the popular vote, the president will be selected by NY, CA, TX, and maybe FL. Guess who will win every time. No matter what your political views are, if you happened to live in ND, your vote wouldn't really mean anything.

Are the issues the same all over the country? Hell no! There needs to be a balance. So far, the EC is the best we have.
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Postby CLUTCHfan » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:50 pm

Try explaining to people that we live in a Republic, and not a Democracy. Amazing the responses you'll get.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:57 pm

Can you imagine the vote fraud and the circus of a nation-wide recount? The circus might be worth it for a nation-wide popular vote.

The dead people would be voting in every city, town, and rural district everywhere. The voter turnout in hicksville, USA was a new record at 500%. The Republicans could find all new sources of votes that the Democrats have been getting for years in places like Chicago and Philadelphia.

At least the the news couldn't start reporting results until the polls closed in Guam or whatever the most remote territory is.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 5:19 pm

Don't Vote = Can't Bitch

I would be bitching either way so what's the difference.

In 2 years i'll be able to bitch about the president even if I didnt vote, because the other guy would have been no better in my view!
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Postby rmh » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:45 pm

What he means about "don't vote-don't bitch" is that you've voluntarily given up your right to vote, so what do you have to complain about? You made a choice to not have an impact on the election.
A popular bumper sticker in the 90's was "Don't blame me I voted for Bush".
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:24 pm

Sorry, but I don't see it making any sense.

If I can't vote for either of them for what they stand for, I have no right to complain about the one does become president? What kind of logic is that? :huh:

It would be different if I didnt care about politics at all and didnt know anything about the candidates and pleaded ignorance, or just not caring, and THEN complaining. Then I shouldnt have any right to complain because I didnt care to look at either of the candidates and vote against the one now complaining about.

But I HAVE looked, and that is WHY I couldnt vote for either. Should I be blamed for having issues un-votable-for in both candidates?

What i'm saying is, the ignorant do not have a right to complain. The well-informed, weather they decide to vote or can't vote for either, do.

A popular bumper sticker in the 90's was "Don't blame me I voted for Bush".

In recent years i've also seen "Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry." bumper stickers.
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Postby seastreet » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:01 pm

It is painfully obvious that McCain is the lesser of two evils, but I am sick and tired of compromising my core principles for the lesser of two evils. I did it in 2000, voting for Bush, but voted for the Libertarian candidate in 2004. This time, I'm drawing the line. Both of the two major party morons are nothing more than wolves in sheeps' clothing. Obama is a marxist / socialist, and is as transparent as the wind. No thanks. McCain is a RINO and is way too willing to give away the farm just to get along with a bunch that isn't interested in doing anything but getting power. No thanks again. Bob Barr was one of the RINO's that caused the GOP to be in the trouble they are in today, so no thanks there either.

Sad as it is, I voted for Ron Paul in the primary, even though I disagreed with alot of his foreign policy stance. He gets it when it comes to free market capitalism, the 2nd Amendment and personal liberty. His domestic policies are right on, bit since Iraq is much better now, his foreign policy arguments are a moot point.

I guess the village will have to be destroyed in order to rebuildit again properly. Obama will be another Jimmy Carter. Look at it this way... If it weren't for Carter, we would have never known the greatness of Ronald Reagan.

We truly need revolution. :thumbsup:
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Postby fenton_3 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:55 pm

There will never be the perfect candidate! How can one candidate match just one persons believes let alone the whole country. My point about the lesser of two evils was that you need to focus on what you believe in the most and then vote based on that. I may not think McCain is perfect or even close to a true conservative, but I know that I will lose more of my God given rights under Obama. I know that this country will be a safer place with John McCain answering the red phone at 3:00 am. I know that McCain will protect my gun rights and I am 100% sure that Obama wants nothing more than to take them away. I know I will pay fewer taxes under McCain than Obama who wants to bail out people who bought house that should not have. I know McCain will at the very least keep our bureaucratic government the same size while Obama will make it in to a giant mother to protect us all from ourselves. I know McCain will allow our country to drill for its own oil under our great country to reduce if not eliminate our dependence on Middle Eastern oil. I know McCain will give incentives to large corporations “like Oil” Companies to develop the next great fuel sources to power our country, because they know that the oil boom will end and a replacement is their only hope for a future. If you do not vote and Obama gets elected I know that this country will be worse off. You vote for McCain could help this country. A vote for the “others” will just be wasted and your protest will be in vain. Want to make this country a better place then vote for McCain and you will have posted a vote that counts. A vote for anyone else is just a waste or a vote to become socialist like France or German! Look how well they are doing. Universal Heath Care does not work! Higher taxes across the board! Gas that is twice as high as ours! An economy growing at a snails pace year over year! A government that cannot get anything done due to the huge bureaucracy required to run a socialist government! Gun rights that do not exist. Want that for our country? Then you know who to vote for and/or just don’t vote because you can agree with everything. That argument is just ridiculous!
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Postby huntingdude16 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:41 pm

fenton, you really don't seem to get the point.

McCain is the the lesser of two evils....

IN YOUR OPINION!!!!!!

Ever come to ponder that someone may disagree with you on an issue? It happens!

You don't think I've considered everything on both sides?

I said it once, I think I said it twice, and i'll say it for the third time....

Both candidates support issues un-votable for in my opinion.

Don't try to turn this into a why-mccain-is-better. I don't think he is and that is not the issue we are discussing.

I would like to roughly quote Lewis Black...

"In the 2004 election of John Kerry and George Bush, you basicly had the choice of two bowls of crap, and the only difference was the stink."

We once again have two bowls of crap and one does not smell any better than the other!
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Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:04 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Don't try to turn this into a why-mccain-is-better. I don't think he is and that is not the issue we are discussing.
If McCain is not better, then Obama must be better. Could you please explain why you think Obama is better? Or are you going with the preposterous notion that they are in fact perfectly the same with imperceivable differences?

huntingdude16 wrote:We once again have two bowls of crap and one does not smell any better than the other!
I believe that is the definition of a politician. It is quite shocking that every single person running for political office is a politician :eek: Always has and always will be. That is why minimizing government influence over your life, my life, business, etc. is the only rational position. McCain will lead to less government than Obama. That is according to everyone including Obama. Obama just claims his change to greater government control will be the first time in history that that kind of change actually benefits the average guy :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Not even he is clueless enough to actually believe that. Maybe in that 58th state that he hasn't visited yet, it might help.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:19 pm

If McCain is not better, then Obama must be better. Could you please explain why you think Obama is better? Or are you going with the preposterous notion that they are in fact perfectly the same with imperceivable differences?

I guess i'll say it for a fourth time....

Both candidates support issues un-votable for in my opinion.

Neither is any better than the other in my opinion.


As for convincing me of mccain, is that really the issue? Somebody, I believe fenton, said that if I don't vote I can't b!tch. I'm saying that if someone does not see a 'lesser evil' and has done their homework, are they really to blame for not voting?

I don't think so.


As for all politician's being the same, that doesnt mean one can not share your opinions or views and agree. For instance, I shared many of the views of Paul, a lot more than any other candidate. But we all know how that turned out.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:59 pm

huntingdude16 wrote:I guess i'll say it for a fourth time....

Both candidates support issues un-votable for in my opinion.
What is an un-votable position? What is so overwhelming that you would choose to let other people choose for you. I try to never let people make decisions for me, especially big ones, which is another of the many reasons I am for small government.

Could you at least give one example of positions the each of them holds that would force you to allow other people to choose for you? I really am curious and simply don't understand what is leading you to say I simply can't choose so you do it for me. Maybe examples would help me understand.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:30 pm

Are you going to jump down my throat if I DID? Or do you simply want to know?
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Postby rmh » Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:55 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Are you going to jump down my throat if I DID? Or do you simply want to know?


I might have, now I'm just curious.
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Postby jehler » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:36 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Are you going to jump down my throat if I DID? Or do you simply want to know?
You need to grow a set
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:41 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Are you going to jump down my throat if I DID? Or do you simply want to know?
I am very curious. That doesn't mean I won't question your choices. Probably will :smile: I post on just about any controversial topic out there. You simply need to lay it out there for others to rip apart. It is the only way you learn. If you can't defend your position, that simply means you haven't thought about it enough. If it's worth posting about, it's worth thinking about and doing research.

I really would like to know what you find so unvotable that you would let other people choose for you. It's unlikely that I will agree with you, but I would really like to know where you are coming from. You are not alone. I would like to better understand why people take the position you do. I simply don't get it. Help me out.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:55 pm

You need to grow a set

How about you go lick a set and get back to me. :thumbsup:


I spose I will post anyway. I hate getting into these topics because they don't end....

McCain- I agree with Paul that the war was a mistake and frankly I don't see him being a whole lot better than the past 7 1/2 years. A continuation of the whole Iraq deal is what bothers me, as well as how he plans to deal with foreign countries such as Iran.

Obama- Obviously he is not the most gun-oriented person and I really can't vote for him, no more than you could.


This is not the whole story or all reasons; just examples.

I think you can see why I have major issues with both parties. Not for the Iraq war at all, and am very pro-gun.
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