McCain vs. Obama

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Who will get your vote?

Obama
11
14%
McCain
65
86%
 
Total votes : 76

Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:01 pm

Everybody that has any interest in any of the major issues has huge issues with all candidates and all parties. We still support one of the candidates that actually has a chance to win.

A party is not a philosophy of government. A party is a coalition of often dissimilar interest, but they hopefully have a central philosophy.

The Republican Party used to be focused on reducing the size and scope of the Federal Government and strict enforcement of the limited regulations. When they have stuck to their core philosophy, they have won dramatically. Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich both lead to sweeping Republican victories. George Bush and the misfits in Congress threw it away with their big government traditional democratic philosophy. McCain is a problem because of his disregard for the Constitution and the law with his campaign finance reform and amnesty for illegals.

The core of the Democratic Party is a mystery to me. It seems to solely exist for the accumulation of power. They are a coalition of parties with completely incompatible objectives. Union members need jobs to employ their men, while environmentalists are opposed to virtually all construction. The leadership of the Democratic party is hard left socialist/communist anti-religious types. A good portion of their base is hard working, God-fearing who are more prone to agree with Sean Hannity than Allen Colms, but they vote Democrat for a variety of misguided (IMHO) reasons. This forces the Democrats to run pro-gun, pro-life candidates that always seem to find a reason to vote the other way.

As far as the whole Iraq deal, I was and still am 100% behind the Iraq deal. Like every war that has ever been fought, there have been major screw ups. The main thing to remember in the Iraq deal is that the war on terrorism is not a set of separate battles. Iraq is not independent from Afghanistan or Pakistan or Israel or Somalia or Indonesia or the Phillipines ... and the single largest front in the war is Iran.

By taking out Saddam we put tremendeous pressure on Iran. We had taken out two of its neighbors without hardly breaking a sweat in military terms. We had well over 100,000 battle-hardened troops prepositioned on two of its borders and the unquestionable might of the U.S. Navy in the Gulf and nearly unlimited airpower available. Things were going very well and Iran was squirming. Lybia unilaterial relinguished it's WMD programs for fear of the U.S. Then we stopped.

The anti-war movement found it's footing in the U.S. We allowed Iran to infiltrate Iraq and kill our troops without reprisal. Major U.S. politicians began calling for unilaterial surrender. Iran pushed more. Al Qaeda stepped up the pressure to support the anti-war movement. The presumed Democratic Presidential Candidate who is leading in the poll continues to call for retreat. Iran openly is developing nuclear weapons and threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. Obama stays strong in the polls. It is not Iraq that is lost. It is the entire war on terror that will be lost if we surrender in Iraq. How long after that will all resources of the enemies be turned to expelling us from Afghanistan? Do you think President Obama will have the will or credibility to stand fast in Afghanistan when the casualties escalate further, which we see already.

Obama's change in the Iraq deal is to go back to the failed policies of the past. Bush rejected the insanity of repeating over and over again these failed policies that never had work and never will work. There are no easy solutions here. People have been and will continue to die no matter what path we take. Obama's path lead to a steady escalation of terrorist attacks culminating in the Sept 11th. We have reversed this trend at a great cost. They have not and will not stop their war on us, so we must defeat them. This will take decades of sustained assymetric warfare (terminology?) where we kill who we can, secure what we can, and see if there in fact is a core of humanity in the middle east that can bring them into the modern world. If there is not, then we will have to subjugate them or tolerate continued mass murder.

Obama's plan is to negotiate with mass murderers. What is the carrot that you offer a mass murderer? What do you offer the man that is threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth and developing the weapons to do it? Don't forget that this is the same guy that is killing American soldiers in Iraq.
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Postby jehler » Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:48 pm

huntingdude16 wrote:How about you go lick a set and get back to me. :thumbsup:


Nice, you nuts are starting to drop already :thumbsup: a few more years you may be a full blown conservative :smile:
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Postby huntingdude16 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:05 pm

I can see why you see McCain as the 'lesser evil', but I simply don't see it that way. I also don't want to get into a long discusion about why, because, to put it simply, I'm lazy. :wink:
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Postby don taylor » Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:39 pm

Huh. Who would have thought a person who thinks Obama would be the lesser of two evils, would admit being lazy? That kind of honesty from a democrat minded individual is refreshing. It does make total sense. The work ethic that made America great is gone. Now we have a 'rely on the goverment' mentality.

Its funny also because the more people I find that say they will vote for Obama, the more people I find that don't have a clue as to what is happening in the world around them. Their uneducated bumper sticker vote is going to cancel out mine.

Great.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:27 pm

Nice, you nuts are starting to drop already a few more years you may be a full blown conservative

Doubtful. :thumbsup:


Who would have thought a person who thinks Obama would be the lesser of two evils, would admit being lazy?

You know, your right. Because, i've totally said over and over again that Obama would be the lesser evil...... :huh:
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Postby jehler » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:16 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Doubtful. :thumbsup:
Trust me, it kind of sneaks up on you
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:57 pm

I was raised with democratic voting parents and un-hesitantly supported Kerry in the '04 election.

Since then, i've moved towards the center, and frankly I think this is where I will stay. I don't see myself becoming any more 'red'.

Simply being raised with democratic parents still gives me a bias towards Obama, even though I realize I couldnt vote for him...
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Postby rmh » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:06 pm

huntingdude16 wrote:I was raised with democratic voting parents and un-hesitantly supported Kerry in the '04 election.

Since then, i've moved towards the center, and frankly I think this is where I will stay. I don't see myself becoming any more 'red'.

Simply being raised with democratic parents still gives me a bias towards Obama, even though I realize I couldnt vote for him...


Exactly how did you "unhesitantly" support Kerry when you were 14?

Here's the deal: politics, like life, is not always black and white, there is always a lot of gray. Sometimes elected officials have to take positions that are unpopular but correct. Sometimes they have to settle for less than they want in a law in order to get it passed because it's better with part of it than none of it. If you wait for a politician to mirror your postion on every issue you'll die of old age without ever voting.
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Postby huntingdude16 » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:21 pm

Because I just assumed my parents were right and didnt think for myself. :wink:
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Postby don taylor » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:14 pm

Here is the good thing. You have plenty of time to learn for yourself what you like in a canidate. Its going to change as you age as well.

That same mentality that is passed down from generation to generation, like blacks voting democratic, is a terrible way to vote. My wife's dad was a hard core union democrat. It took 10 years to wise her up to the BS they sling. Be thankful your able to see the light early.
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Postby RatherBhunting » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:43 pm

Well lets see, I hunt and im in the military..hmmm not much thinking that needs to happen I choose McCain
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Postby riverrat47 » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:08 am

In Illinois, we "downstaters" have a saying: "Elect a Chicago democrat and you get the most corrupt politician money can buy."
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Postby englishsetter » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:09 am

huntingdude16 wrote:Sorry, but I don't see it making any sense.

If I can't vote for either of them for what they stand for, I have no right to complain about the one does become president? What kind of logic is that? :huh:

It would be different if I didnt care about politics at all and didnt know anything about the candidates and pleaded ignorance, or just not caring, and THEN complaining. Then I shouldnt have any right to complain because I didnt care to look at either of the candidates and vote against the one now complaining about.

But I HAVE looked, and that is WHY I couldnt vote for either. Should I be blamed for having issues un-votable-for in both candidates?

What i'm saying is, the ignorant do not have a right to complain. The well-informed, weather they decide to vote or can't vote for either, do.

A popular bumper sticker in the 90's was "Don't blame me I voted for Bush".

In recent years i've also seen "Don't blame me, I voted for Kerry." bumper stickers.



not to be an idiot or anything but u have the worst attitude ever if i would vote i could because if obama wins were screwed plain and simple think about how huntings changed u for the better what about your kids dont u want that for them i know i do. it aint gunna happen with obama as pres he's gunna try to pass as much crap as he can to stop guns and he does not like hunting one bit
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