McCain--McSame

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McCain--McSame

Postby dudejcb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:23 pm

I tend to like John McCain. Let's face it he's a likeable guy, and you cannot quibble about his patriotism.

That said I do quibble with the the scare tactics and misinformation campaign he is waging against Obama, rather than simply being "straight" and talking about what he thinks.

Even tho I like, and respect him as a person, I think McCain is not as pure as he might like to portray (who among us is?), and he has been involved in a few things THAT COST TAXPAYERS A WHOLE BUNCH that many are either unaware of, too yong to remember, or are simply unwilling to hold him accountable for. His ties to the Bush family go back to W's oldest brother, Neil.

So you may know some McCain history... here's some background info.

"Lincoln Savings and Loan
The Lincoln Savings led to the Keating Five political scandal, in which five U.S. senators were implicated in an influence-peddling scheme. It was named for Charles Keating, who headed Lincoln saving and made $300,000 as political contributions to them in the 1980s. Three of those senators - Alan Cranston, Don Riegle, and Dennis DeConcini - found their political careers cut short as a result. Two others - John Glenn and John McCain - were rebuked by the Senate Ethics Committee for exercising "poor judgment" for intervening with the federal regulators on behalf of Keating.[10]

Silverado Savings and Loan
Silverado Savings and Loan collapsed in 1988, costing taxpayers $1.6 billion. Neil Bush, son of then Vice President of the United States George H. W. Bush, was Director of Silverado at the time. Neil Bush was accused of giving himself a loan from Silverado, but he denied all wrongdoing.

The US Office of Thrift Supervision investigated Silverado's failure and determined that Neil Bush had engaged in numerous "breaches of his fiduciary duties involving multiple conflicts of interest." Although Bush was not indicted on criminal charges, a civil action was brought against him and the other Silverado directors by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation; it was eventually settled out of court, with Bush paying $50,000 as part of the settlement, as reported in the Washington Post.

As a director of a failing thrift, Bush voted to approve $100 million in what were ultimately bad loans to two of his business partners. And in voting for the loans, he failed to inform fellow board members at Silverado Savings & Loan that the loan applicants were his business partners.

Silverado's collapse cost taxpayers $1.3 billion.

Neil Bush paid a $50,000 fine and was banned from banking activities for his role in taking down Silverado, which cost taxpayers $1.3 billion. A Resolution Trust Corporation Suit against Bush and other officers of Silverado was settled in 1991 for $26.5 million.

A Republican fundraiser set up a fund to help defer costs Neil Bush incurred in his S&L dealings."

So the question is" what's the differnce between a tax hike and a corporate bailout that the taxpayers are forced to pay? Keep this in mind the next time McCain or any of his minions (FOX News) try to put words in the D's mouth that they will raise our taxes.

The only thing I've read or heard myself about the D's tax plan has been that the middle class would get a break and those making $200K oand over might pay more... which sounds like more tax fairness, not more taxes.
Last edited by dudejcb on Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: McCain--McSame

Postby David » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:41 pm

dudejcb wrote:The only thing I've read or heard myself about the D's tax plan has been that the middle class would get a break and those making $200K oand over might pay more... which sounds like more tax fairness, not more taxes.


But those making more than $200k already pay more, a lot more.

I'm sorry, but I missed the part about what the Silverado Savings and Loan has to do with McCain, or are you trying to comparing McCain to what current President Bush's brother did?

Glad to see you back in the CI forum Dude.
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Postby dudejcb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:49 pm

so, does that mean you don't support our troops?

(isn't misdirection fun.)
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:06 pm

Gee you have to reach back 20 years to find something that I'm not even sure what role McCain had in it and a bipartisan scandal that is even older than that. Has McCain been involved in anything questionable for the last 20+ years or has he learned his lesson.

Obama's scandals are more clear and recent, but we are supposed to disregard these or equate them with a 20+ year old scandals which was investigated and McCain was repremanded for. Has Obama's dealing with Rezko been investigated at all. It certainly deserves a censure at a minimum and possibly jail at a maximum. Hey, maybe we can relive the '90's with a string of corruption investigations where the President claims to be clueless and not corrupt.

Typical Progressive simple-minded logic. We raise the tax rates on the "rich" and they just fork over more money. WRONG. They change their behavior, raise prices, etc., and either retire (they're rich and can do that), pass the higher taxes on to the working Americans that have to buy their products, move production overseas or lose market share to foreign companies not burdened by higher U.S. taxes, etc. This nonsense has been tried time and time again. It does not increase revenue to the government, but that is not the point. It is to satisfy the childish jealousy of the Democratic voters.

The only people that pay the higher tax rates are ordinary people that happen to fall into the high tax rate because they sold a property or something like that and don't have the accounts and lawyers available to hide the money.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120122126173315299.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries
Surprise, surprise: The effective average tax rate for the top 1% of income earners barely wiggles as Congress changes tax codes after tax codes, and as the economy goes from boom to bust and back again (see chart).

The question is, how can that effective average tax rate be so stable? The answer is simply that the very highest income earners are and have always been able to vary their reported income and thus control the amount of taxes they pay. Whether through tax shelters, deferrals, gifts, write-offs, cross income mobility or any of a number of other measures, the effective average tax rate barely budges. But this group's total tax payments are incredibly volatile.


I know Obama is supposed to be brilliant, but he is completely ignorant or a liar if he thinks raising tax rates on the top income earners will bring more revenue into the government. After reading his 2nd book, I'm certain it's ignorance and a complete lack of intellectual curiousity. Decades of data prove it does not work. I can't rule out that he is a liar. Everybody on the Democrat side can not be that ignorant.

Maybe this time it will actually work :headbang:
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Postby dudejcb » Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:00 pm

See now, that's just what I was talking about. I have not heard Obama say anything about raising taxes. Maybe I've been under a rock too long, but I haven't heard anything remotely the man himself.

I have heard stuff like that from the "R" machine, and its sympathizers (like you know you are Spinner).

What Obama scandals? How can you promote censure for Obama if whatever it is he's supposed to be censured for hasn't been investigated, or a significant link to his personal wrongdoing has not been established yet. This "witch hunt" mentality is part of the problem.

I guess my original point was... those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks... unless they are willing to have their missteps aired in the public square. Can you hear me John?

P.S. I think McCain would make an okay Prez. But her on DHC the membership is pretty heavily in his camp, so I take it upon myself to throw other Points of view out there, just to even it up a bit.And, even tho I like McCain, I think he's losing his mental acuity... he mis-speaks a lot which is troublesome... and would have preferred it if he had won in 2000.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:36 pm

dudejcb wrote: and would have preferred it if he had won in 2000.


i dont think you will get much argument from anyone but cheney there...
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Postby apexhunter » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:34 pm

dudejcb wrote: I have not heard Obama say anything about raising taxes. Maybe I've been under a rock too long, but I haven't heard anything remotely the man himself.


I have a short and simple answer to this query: He's a Democrat!
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Postby David » Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:33 am

dudejcb wrote:so, does that mean you don't support our troops?

(isn't misdirection fun.)


:huh:
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:09 am

of course he didnt say he was going to raise taxes. what kind of a platform would that be?

he has said he will push for trainloads of new government plans and i dont think the chinese will be paying for them
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Postby rmh » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:14 am

Just the one proposal, returning to the tax rates that were in place prior to 2002 will increase my federal bill by about $6000. The total will be more since MD income tax (both state and local) is indexed to your federal return.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:16 am

dudejcb wrote:What Obama scandals? How can you promote censure for Obama if whatever it is he's supposed to be censured for hasn't been investigated, or a significant link to his personal wrongdoing has not been established yet. This "witch hunt" mentality is part of the problem.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/432197,CST-NWS-obama18.article
During his 12 years in politics, Sen. Barack Obama has received nearly three times more campaign cash from indicted businessman Tony Rezko and his associates than he has publicly acknowledged, the Chicago Sun-Times has found.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4111483
On the same day Obama closed on his house, Rezko's wife bought the adjacent empty lot, meeting the condition of the seller who wanted to sell both properties at the same time.

While Rezko's wife paid the full asking price for the land, Obama paid $300,000 under the asking price for the house. The house sold for $1,650,000 and the price Rezko's wife paid for the land was $625,000.

He's is part of the corrupt Chicago machine. Tony Rezko is currently in jail after being convicted on a variety of corruption charges. Rezko was a corrupt money-man / power-broker for the current governor (aka Public Official A in the investigation). There is a gold mine here. Fitzgerald, the same guy that charged Scooter Libbey, is on the case.

You should like this. There are even links to Rove and Bush.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/rezko/912861,CST-NWS-rezko24.article

Obama is very much like the Clintons. All the people around him are corrupt or nuts (Wright, Ayers, etc.), but he is "clueless" about all these people.

dudejcb wrote:I have not heard Obama say anything about raising taxes. Maybe I've been under a rock too long, but I haven't heard anything remotely the man himself.

It's right on his website.
http://obama.3cdn.net/b7be3b7cd08e587dca_v852mv8ja.pdf
he will pay for middle class tax relief by and increasing the highest bracket for capital gains and dividends and closing the carried interest loophole.


http://www.barackobama.com/issues/fiscal/
but he will reverse most of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest taxpayers


You really need to do some homework. But thanks for accusing me of not being informed about my Senator.
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Postby jrockncash » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:28 am

Old Spinnerman your on your game again. Good links. I think sometimes Duder likes to stir the pot.

Obama is a motivational speaker. Not a decision maker.


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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:47 am

wish i had my camera yesterday... went by a morons yard that had an obama sign in one end of the yard, and one of those "STOP taxing my property" signs at the other end... i wanted to stop and ask if he had any of what he was smokin for sale... :no:
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Postby don taylor » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:58 pm

What's the actual % of Americans that vote? I'm now realizing that his side is extremely motivated to win. I don't know if the PR war can be won by the almost 80 y.o. whitey. I have yet to see a McCain bumpersticker. Anywhere. Obama yard signs are everywhere and they haven't even had the convention, have they?

I think we're screwed...
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Postby dudejcb » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:14 am

David wrote:
dudejcb wrote:so, does that mean you don't support our troops?

(isn't misdirection fun.)


:huh:

David, your response is appropriate... it doesn't make any sense on purpose. It was meant to mock the typical response from a few years back; whenever anyone questioned the logic of the Iraq war (back when it was first happening), the typical response was, "you don't support our troops" which was always a BS misdirection away from the legitimate issues being rasied. my bad.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:33 am

don taylor wrote:What's the actual % of Americans that vote? I'm now realizing that his side is extremely motivated to win. I don't know if the PR war can be won by the almost 80 y.o. whitey. I have yet to see a McCain bumpersticker. Anywhere. Obama yard signs are everywhere and they haven't even had the convention, have they?

I think we're screwed...




no, the red vote is largely silent. we have to spend our time and money on making a living and payments. the tards puttin up signs and screaming for oblahma have nothing else to do. its the same in every election. you hear and see tons of dem's, especially on tv since thats all they will cover it seems. but the working class always quietly shows up on election day, and the media is always "confounded at this incredible turn of events" -- in my best walter cronkite--

im not too worried at all. between now and november, the youngin will make an ass of himself at least a dozen more times, and i doubt he has much chance to really win it.

just for instance, take 1000 people at random. maybe 3 will actually admit that they dont think a black man in office is a good idea. but in secret voting booths, the truth comes out. the PC crap goes out the window when no one is watching them, and the vote will be a landslide. i would bet alot of money on that :thumbsup:

also, this will depend on who takes the veep... joe biden would be a huge benefit for obama, although im afraid they might politely be asked to switch seats after the election since barak is a political infant in comparison. so that may backfire by highlighting barak's extreme inexperience... who knows. but i think joe biden would have been an ok pres...

if mcsame could get a man of newt's character and cajones to step up with him, i doubt obama could win it with a 10 million vote head start :rolleyes: and it wouldnt matter who was the dem-veep.

i really see this as mccain's to lose. the more stunts like the paris hilton thing he pulls, the worse it will get for him, but as long as his health holds up between now and election day, and he picks a decent guy for veep, i would bet he gets over 65% of the total vote,
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Postby jehler » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:30 pm

don taylor wrote:I think we're screwed...
Don, If we can flood the market with good dope and get every bar in the nation to extend happy hour and do $1.50 pitchers on the eve of election I think the republicans can pull it off
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Postby SpinnerMan » Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:58 pm

jehler wrote:to extend happy hour
Another reason not to vote for Obama. Happy hours are illegal in Illinois. Former Illinois State Senator Obama could have supported that change and I would have believed in it.

No smoking in bars and no happy hours. Do you really want to bring progressive Illinois politics to the entire nation?
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Postby pennsyltucky » Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:58 pm

SpinnerMan wrote: Do you really want to bring progressive Illinois politics to the entire nation?


not even his supporters would want what he's gonna give em
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Postby WisconsinWaterfowler » Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:59 pm

Normally I read all of the posts but this time Im not ok heres what I think I think both of the candidates suck and both of them stand for the opposite of mainly what I believe but why would any hunter be stupid enough to vote for Obama he is completely against us owning our semi autos WHICH we use for duck hunting plus he wants to dramatically increase taxes :huh: I dont know how stupid you can be and he is like the youngest presidential candidate and I dont think we need him with the economy so down McCain is much more experienced so why again would any hunter vote for Obama :huh:
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Postby WisconsinWaterfowler » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:08 pm

All right I just read it all just thought I would let you guys know :thumbsup: and boy do I hope mccain can pull it off lets just hope your right pennsyltucky about all that I agree though on the republicans being silent I never see an impeach this democratic man in office its always the dems yelling at the republicans and you know what I think is hilarious that they have an dumb old ass for their symbol and we have a wise tough elephant
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Postby pennsyltucky » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:20 pm

cmon is it really hard to use a period every once in a while i mean like its really hard to read what you are writing maybe this gives you an idea please give it some thought when u dont use punctuation no one reads your post u remind everyone of tyler zent

maybeyoucanjusttypewithoutspaceseitherletsalltryit :biggrin:
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Postby WisconsinWaterfowler » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:30 pm

All right. I will use periods. I usually do but I just wanted to go fast.
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Postby englishsetter » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:36 pm

from waht ive seen obama does not want anything to do with hunting and thats my concern since im a kid and only care about hunting
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Postby matt87 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:52 pm

WisconsinWaterfowler wrote:you know what I think is hilarious that they have an dumb old ass for their symbol and we have a wise tough elephant
An dumb old ass? Haha are you serious. If you are going to ridicule someone's intelligence you definitely should use correct grammar. That crap cracks me up..
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