What conditions with the 700 billion dollar bailout

A forum not related to waterfowl for discussing the more controversial and hot topic issues in our world from immigration, politics, the war, etc..

Moderators: Smackaduck, MM

Postby Preacher1011 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:03 am

If they're going to bail them out they can go ahead and pay off my boat and credit card while there at it. 3 grand is whale crap in the ocean.
Locked&Loaded wrote: I got out shot by a 13 yeard old girl.


jrockncash wrote:Is that mask only for ghosts or can fat guys with little weiners use it too?


Image
User avatar
Preacher1011
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 8448
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN


Postby DuckinFool » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:16 am

Not to mention one of Obama's "advisors racked up $96 mil in only 6 years from one of these bailout project companies. :eek:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28714


They Gave Your Mortgage to a Less Qualified Minority

by Ann Coulter

09/24/2008


On MSNBC this week, Newsweek's Jonathan Alter tried to connect John McCain to the current financial disaster, saying: "If you remember the Keating Five scandal that (McCain) was a part of. ... He's really getting a free ride on the fact that he was in the middle of the last great financial scandal in our country."


McCain was "in the middle of" the Keating Five case in the sense that he was "exonerated." The lawyer for the Senate Ethics Committee wanted McCain removed from the investigation altogether, but, as The New York Times reported: "Sen. McCain was the only Republican embroiled in the affair, and Democrats on the panel would not release him."

So John McCain has been held hostage by both the Viet Cong and the Democrats.


Alter couldn't be expected to know that: As usual, he was lifting material directly from Kausfiles. What is unusual was that he was stealing a random thought sent in by Kausfiles' mother, who, the day before, had e-mailed: "It's time to bring up the Keating Five. Let McCain explain that scandal away."

The Senate Ethics Committee lawyer who investigated McCain already had explained that scandal away -- repeatedly. It was celebrated lawyer Robert Bennett, most famous for defending a certain horny hick president a few years ago.

In February this year, on Fox News' "Hannity and Colmes," Bennett said, for the eight billionth time:

"First, I should tell your listeners I'm a registered Democrat, so I'm not on (McCain's) side of a lot of issues. But I investigated John McCain for a year and a half, at least, when I was special counsel to the Senate Ethics Committee in the Keating Five. ... And if there is one thing I am absolutely confident of, it is John McCain is an honest man. I recommended to the Senate Ethics Committee that he be cut out of the case, that there was no evidence against him."

It's bad enough for Alter to be constantly ripping off Kausfiles. Now he's so devoid of his own ideas, he's ripping off the idle musings of Kausfiles' mother.

Even if McCain had been implicated in the Keating Five scandal -- and he wasn't -- that would still have absolutely nothing to do with the subprime mortgage crisis currently roiling the financial markets. This crisis was caused by political correctness being forced on the mortgage lending industry in the Clinton era.

Before the Democrats' affirmative action lending policies became an embarrassment, the Los Angeles Times reported that, starting in 1992, a majority-Democratic Congress "mandated that Fannie and Freddie increase their purchases of mortgages for low-income and medium-income borrowers. Operating under that requirement, Fannie Mae, in particular, has been aggressive and creative in stimulating minority gains."

Under Clinton, the entire federal government put massive pressure on banks to grant more mortgages to the poor and minorities. Clinton's secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Andrew Cuomo, investigated Fannie Mae for racial discrimination and proposed that 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low- to moderate-income borrowers by the year 2001.

Instead of looking at "outdated criteria," such as the mortgage applicant's credit history and ability to make a down payment, banks were encouraged to consider nontraditional measures of credit-worthiness, such as having a good jump shot or having a missing child named "Caylee."

Threatening lawsuits, Clinton's Federal Reserve demanded that banks treat welfare payments and unemployment benefits as valid income sources to qualify for a mortgage. That isn't a joke -- it's a fact.

When Democrats controlled both the executive and legislative branches, political correctness was given a veto over sound business practices.

In 1999, liberals were bragging about extending affirmative action to the financial sector. Los Angeles Times reporter Ron Brownstein hailed the Clinton administration's affirmative action lending policies as one of the "hidden success stories" of the Clinton administration, saying that "black and Latino homeownership has surged to the highest level ever recorded."

Meanwhile, economists were screaming from the rooftops that the Democrats were forcing mortgage lenders to issue loans that would fail the moment the housing market slowed and deadbeat borrowers couldn't get out of their loans by selling their houses.

A decade later, the housing bubble burst and, as predicted, food-stamp-backed mortgages collapsed. Democrats set an affirmative action time-bomb and now it's gone off.

In Bush's first year in office, the White House chief economist, N. Gregory Mankiw, warned that the government's "implicit subsidy" of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, combined with loans to unqualified borrowers, was creating a huge risk for the entire financial system.

Rep. Barney Frank denounced Mankiw, saying he had no "concern about housing." How dare you oppose suicidal loans to people who can't repay them! The New York Times reported that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were "under heavy assault by the Republicans," but these entities still had "important political allies" in the Democrats.

Now, at a cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, middle-class taxpayers are going to be forced to bail out the Democrats' two most important constituent groups: rich Wall Street bankers and welfare recipients.

Political correctness had already ruined education, sports, science and entertainment. But it took a Democratic president with a Democratic congress for political correctness to wreck the financial industry.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ann Coulter is Legal Affairs Correspondent for HUMAN EVENTS and author of "High Crimes and Misdemeanors," "Slander," ""How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must)," "Godless," and most recently, "If Democrats Had Any Brains, They'd Be Republicans."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Recession-neighbor loses job...Depression-you lose job...Recovery-Obama loses job.
Image
Don't blame me.....I didn't vote for him !!!
User avatar
DuckinFool
hunter
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:47 am
Location: Southern Illinois

Postby DuckinFool » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:22 am

How about a great big thank you to the Democrat Party and FDR for the awsome gift to all of us that just keeps on giving.......the permanent welfare state leeches. :mad:
Recession-neighbor loses job...Depression-you lose job...Recovery-Obama loses job.
Image
Don't blame me.....I didn't vote for him !!!
User avatar
DuckinFool
hunter
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:47 am
Location: Southern Illinois

Postby Pacific Fisher » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:10 pm

We should hear a lot more details in the next 24 hours, but it looks like the Treasury Secretary has agreed on the issue of limiting CEO salaries and rewards as part of companies receiving US taxpayer bail out funds.
Pacific Fisher
hunter
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Gualala, CA

Postby DuckinFool » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:37 pm

When I walk into a bank to apply for a loan right away hte collateral issue is looked at. If these companies want us to finance their "restructuring" then I think they should be required to put all of their properties and assets on the table for collateral.
If this thing flops then let these fat cats flop with it.

What's good for the pee-on is good for the pee-on-er.
Recession-neighbor loses job...Depression-you lose job...Recovery-Obama loses job.
Image
Don't blame me.....I didn't vote for him !!!
User avatar
DuckinFool
hunter
 
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:47 am
Location: Southern Illinois

Postby Pacific Fisher » Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:50 pm

DuckinFool wrote:When I walk into a bank to apply for a loan right away hte collateral issue is looked at. If these companies want us to finance their "restructuring" then I think they should be required to put all of their properties and assets on the table for collateral.
If this thing flops then let these fat cats flop with it.

What's good for the pee-on is good for the pee-on-er.


Agreed!
Pacific Fisher
hunter
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Gualala, CA

Postby Pacific Fisher » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:39 pm

Still a bunch of pretty scary unresolved issues including the CEO salaries specifics.
As usual the devil is in the details.
Pacific Fisher
hunter
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Gualala, CA

Postby Preacher1011 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:29 pm

Congrats guys. If this goes through we'll each be paying 2 grand to bail out a company I didn't help put in the situation they're in. Help me see the logic here, a poor person comes in wanting a loan for a new truck. They know he won't make payments, but give it to him anyway. That's basically what happened and why they are in this situation. It all started at OUR banks. They gave bad loans then sold pieces of those loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to get the fees Mac and Mae had to pay to buy the loan off them. So it started in our towns.

From what I've heard the government will be owning a part of the companies it bails out, thus meaning us citizens own a piece of the company because of taxes. I've heard that citizens will get some benefits out of this in the future.
Locked&Loaded wrote: I got out shot by a 13 yeard old girl.


jrockncash wrote:Is that mask only for ghosts or can fat guys with little weiners use it too?


Image
User avatar
Preacher1011
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 8448
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Postby MM » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:39 pm

Preacher1101 - I don't like it anymore than the next guy but he HAVE to do this. If we don't bail them out, we will go into slowly into a depression. Sucks!

Who knows. Maybe we will actually make money on this........
Like us on facebook! Reelfishingchat.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/ReelFishi ... 6234462878
User avatar
MM
Super Moderator
 
Posts: 2548
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:52 am
Location: Central Illinois

Postby pennsyltucky » Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:41 pm

i agree except with the "slowly" part.
muleskinner wrote:you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and a benalli in the other.
User avatar
pennsyltucky
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:21 pm
Location: stoneboro, PA

Postby Preacher1011 » Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:02 pm

MM wrote:Preacher1101 - I don't like it anymore than the next guy but he HAVE to do this. If we don't bail them out, we will go into slowly into a depression. Sucks!

Who knows. Maybe we will actually make money on this........


That's what I'm hoping. Who knows, maybe a big tax break eventually.
Locked&Loaded wrote: I got out shot by a 13 yeard old girl.


jrockncash wrote:Is that mask only for ghosts or can fat guys with little weiners use it too?


Image
User avatar
Preacher1011
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 8448
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Postby Pacific Fisher » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:05 pm

Despite extreme pressure/warnings from Bush to sign off on the Paulson package, it looks like this process is going to slow down to include/address a lot more concerns from both parties.
I think this is a good thing.
They may go with incremental funding and use additional legislation down the road to clean up details.

Establishing the value of the toxic paper is sure an important question.
Pacific Fisher
hunter
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Gualala, CA

Postby SpinnerMan » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:19 pm

I don't completely disagree that slowing down a bit is a bad thing, but I see no signs that the negotiations are focussed on the actual problem. I think they are going to agree to the original plan (rewritten to sound different), but they are going to include unrelated handouts to the various special interest groups. The other reason it seems to have slowed down is that there was no way in hell anything was going to be finished before McCain left town. Pure political decision on the Dems part.

As far as the toxic paper. If we could establish a value for it, it would not be toxic.

That is why the government plans to spend $700B to buy paper that could be worth anywhere from probably $400B or a little lower to $1,400B or possibly more. Nobody is willing to sell it at the extremely low level needed to move it and nobody is going to buy it for what the people are willing to sell it for. The basic reason everything has ground to a halt. The government will put $700B at risk to get liquidity back into the market and then ultimately sell it, after the value is established, for somewhere between a $300B loss to a $700B profit.
A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.
User avatar
SpinnerMan
hunter
 
Posts: 15202
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:24 am
Location: Joliet, IL

Postby Pacific Fisher » Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:51 pm

SpinnerMan wrote:I don't completely disagree that slowing down a bit is a bad thing, but I see no signs that the negotiations are focussed on the actual problem. I think they are going to agree to the original plan (rewritten to sound different), but they are going to include unrelated handouts to the various special interest groups. The other reason it seems to have slowed down is that there was no way in hell anything was going to be finished before McCain left town. Pure political decision on the Dems part.
As far as the toxic paper. If we could establish a value for it, it would not be toxic.

That is why the government plans to spend $700B to buy paper that could be worth anywhere from probably $400B or a little lower to $1,400B or possibly more. Nobody is willing to sell it at the extremely low level needed to move it and nobody is going to buy it for what the people are willing to sell it for. The basic reason everything has ground to a halt. The government will put $700B at risk to get liquidity back into the market and then ultimately sell it, after the value is established, for somewhere between a $300B loss to a $700B profit.


Spinner,

It was the Republicans who "blew up" the negotiations and walked out yesterday. It was shown including the Republican's statements acknowledging that on all the networks. Do your homework.
Even if the repubs had not blown up the negotiations, I do not think the agreement was in any way ready to be supported by both parties any time today and likely not before Monday.
Pacific Fisher
hunter
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Gualala, CA

Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:06 pm

if the dems really wanted to do it, they could just do it.... why are thye shuffling around waiting for the republicans?
muleskinner wrote:you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and a benalli in the other.
User avatar
pennsyltucky
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:21 pm
Location: stoneboro, PA

Postby Pacific Fisher » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:09 pm

pennsyltucky wrote:if the dems really wanted to do it, they could just do it.... why are thye shuffling around waiting for the republicans?


If you had followed the events, the Democratic leadership stated that whatever goes forward has to be a bi-partisan proposal.
Yesterday some Republicans started talking about a completely different package than Bush's that was being negotiated. The problem was the Republican's did not have enough details to discuss in the meeting that President Bush called, which blew up the meeting and made it impossible to come up with a bi partisan package yesterday or today. It will likely take working through the weekend by both party's to hammer out a package that can be voted on.
Pacific Fisher
hunter
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Gualala, CA

Postby jehler » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:13 pm

I heard the money is really being used to buy more shape charges(like the ones bush used to take down the twin towers) to take down more american buildings and blame it on ossama in a bush/cheney plot to get elected for the third time since the second time he was not really elected :no:
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick - erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it,
Plug it, play it, burn it
User avatar
jehler
thread hi-jacking expert and a great guy
 
Posts: 17081
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:52 pm
Location: Traverse City, MI

Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:54 pm

Pacific Fisher wrote:If you had followed the events,


i was too busy working so i can afford to pay my upcoming tax hike :biggrin:
muleskinner wrote:you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth and a benalli in the other.
User avatar
pennsyltucky
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:21 pm
Location: stoneboro, PA

Postby Pacific Fisher » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:06 pm

Happy days are here again, due to Senator McCain suspending his campaign (again) and rolling up his sleeves, and delivering the Republican vote, Senator McCain has singlehandedly passed the bail out bill and the economy is saved, today September 29th.

John McCain has approved this message.
Last edited by Pacific Fisher on Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pacific Fisher
hunter
 
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Gualala, CA

Postby devildog28 » Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:25 pm

I'm so glad this bill failed! I could care less about anyone that can't afford to pay their mortage or the messed up banks that loaned them.

A huge part of this depression talk has to do with people freaking out over NOTHING :mad: mostly the media.

The market goes in cycles. People should look at it as the best time to buy stocks!!! I am. They had on the news here how people were starting to pull savings out. That's pure ignorance. There is nothing going to happen if their bank sells or gets taken over.
User avatar
devildog28
hunter
 
Posts: 2200
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:36 am
Location: Katy, TX

Postby lostIT » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:41 am

devildog28 Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:25 am Post subject:

I'm so glad this bill failed! I could care less about anyone that can't afford to pay their mortage or the messed up banks that loaned them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are many people who would agree with you. However, there are so many people who lost their jobs with the banks and broker companies closing down. So, even if these people would like to pay for their mortgages and were (at one point) qualified for such loans, they cannot afford them anymore. With thousands of people on the job hunt, companies can afford to negotiate for lower salary...TRY AN OFFER OF 2k/MO VS 7k INCOME PRIOR!!! (or no increase for current employees). If the economy gets better and properties start gaining equity again, the government will have a part of the homeowners profit (after a sale) if this bill gets passed.

This mess that you do not care about, affect you in so many ways...

This bill will not change things overnight but it will help the economy...
lostIT
hunter
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:17 am
Location: norwalk, ca

Postby Preacher1011 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:28 pm

So did y'all hear how AIG spent some of our money? To go to some fancy hotel in California. Bunch of BS. They're planning another one in a fancy hotel in another country. Don't know why we bailed them out, I don't think it will help. Didn't we learn anything from Rockefeller when he tried to buy up a bunch of stock to prevent the Great Depression?
Locked&Loaded wrote: I got out shot by a 13 yeard old girl.


jrockncash wrote:Is that mask only for ghosts or can fat guys with little weiners use it too?


Image
User avatar
Preacher1011
Forum & State Moderator
 
Posts: 8448
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:14 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Postby jehler » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:16 pm

lostIT wrote:There are many people who would agree with you. However, there are so many people who lost their jobs with the banks and broker companies closing down. So, even if these people would like to pay for their mortgages and were (at one point) qualified for such loans, they cannot afford them anymore. With thousands of people on the job hunt, companies can afford to negotiate for lower salary...TRY AN OFFER OF 2k/MO VS 7k INCOME PRIOR!!! (or no increase for current employees). If the economy gets better and properties start gaining equity again, the government will have a part of the homeowners profit (after a sale) if this bill gets passed.

This mess that you do not care about, affect you in so many ways...

This bill will not change things overnight but it will help the economy...
let the economy fail and the hords become unemployed. I have a strong back, a good head and a great work ethic. I will crawl back out of the hole over the bodies of the weak and be back on top in no time. thin the heard of the weak and the fat :thumbsup:
Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail - upgrade it,
Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick - erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick - rewrite it,
Plug it, play it, burn it
User avatar
jehler
thread hi-jacking expert and a great guy
 
Posts: 17081
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:52 pm
Location: Traverse City, MI

Postby Grouse » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:41 pm

Madame Speaker, only in Washington could a bill demonstrably worse than its predecessor be brought back for another vote and actually expect to gain votes. That this bailout was initially defeated was a welcome surprise, but the power-brokers in Washington and on Wall Street could not allow that defeat to be permanent. It was most unfortunate that this monstrosity of a bill, loaded up with even more pork, was able to pass.
The Federal Reserve has already injected hundreds of billions of dollars into US and world credit markets. The adjusted monetary base is up sharply, bank reserves have exploded, and the national debt is up almost half a trillion dollars over the past two weeks. Yet, we are still told that after all this intervention, all this inflation, that we still need an additional $700 billion bailout, otherwise the credit markets will seize and the economy will collapse. This is the same excuse that preceded previous bailouts, and undoubtedly we will hear it again in the future after this bailout fails.

One of the most dangerous effects of this bailout is the incredibly elevated risk of moral hazard in the future. The worst performing financial services firms, even those who have been taken over by the government or have filed for bankruptcy, will find all of their poor decision-making rewarded. What incentive do Wall Street firms or any other large concerns have to make sound financial decisions, now that they see the federal government bailing out private companies to the tune of trillions of dollars? As Congress did with the legislation authorizing the Fannie and Freddie bailout, it proposes a solution that exacerbates and encourages the problematic behavior that led to this crisis in the first place.

With deposit insurance increasing to $250,000 and banks able to set their reserves to zero, we will undoubtedly see future increases in unsound lending. No one in our society seems to understand that wealth is not created by government fiat, is not created by banks, and is not created through the manipulation of interest rates and provision of easy credit. A debt-based society cannot prosper and is doomed to fail, as debts must either be defaulted on or repaid, neither resolution of which presents this country with a pleasant view of the future. True wealth can only come about through savings, the deferral of present consumption in order to provide for a higher level of future consumption. Instead, our government through its own behavior and through its policies encourages us to live beyond our means, reducing existing capital and mortgaging our future to pay for present consumption.

The money for this bailout does not just materialize out of thin air. The entire burden will be borne by the taxpayers, not now, because that is politically unacceptable, but in the future. This bailout will be paid for through the issuance of debt which we can only hope will be purchased by foreign creditors. The interest payments on that debt, which already take up a sizeable portion of federal expenditures, will rise, and our children and grandchildren will be burdened with increased taxes in order to pay that increased debt.

As usual, Congress has show itself to be reactive rather than proactive. For years, many people have been warning about the housing bubble and the inevitable bust. Congress ignored the impending storm, and responded to this crisis with a poorly thought-out piece of legislation that will only further harm the economy. We ought to be ashamed.



That was Ron Paul's statement to the House today
Nature teaches more than she preaches. There are no sermons in stones. It is easier to get a spark out of a stone than a moral.
User avatar
Grouse
hunter
 
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:39 am
Location: Petenwell flowage Wisconsin

Previous

Return to Controversial Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests