Bail-Out passed by Senate

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Bail-Out passed by Senate

Postby La. Hunter » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:45 pm

Well its official! The Senate has passed the 700 billion dollar bail out of Wall-Street. I wonder if one of our privately owned businesses fail if we can expect the government to bail us out. :mad:
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Postby Preacher1011 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 9:56 pm

I wonder if they'll pay my debts too? :rofl: :mad:
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Postby MM » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:31 pm

I want to build a duck club. I only need 10 million! That is just a drop in the bucket :rofl:
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Postby Botiz630 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:32 pm

It passed the Senate yes, but it still has to go back through the House, which voted it down before. It may not ever come to be
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Postby La. Hunter » Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:44 pm

Botiz630 wrote:It passed the Senate yes, but it still has to go back through the House, which voted it down before. It may not ever come to be


I haven't really done much reading about it today, other than the fact that it passed the Senate, but I do know that it keeps growing and growing. I am scared to see what else will be tacked onto it if it clears the House.
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Postby Preacher1011 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:57 am

I thought bills went to the house and then the senate :huh:
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Postby PBR Me » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:50 am

Most bills can start in either the House or the Senate. Certain bills must start in the house (tax bills I think).
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Postby DuckinFool » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:58 am

And this is not a tax bill? A very bad tax bill? :no:
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Postby Botiz630 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:10 am

Preacher1011 wrote:I thought bills went to the house and then the senate :huh:


it did start in the house. they voted it down. it went to the senate, who passed it. it goes back to the house now, with some changes to be voted on again
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Postby Botiz630 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:15 am

the senate added things like tax cuts and other goodies to try and woo some of the house members into changing their vote
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:25 am

I was originally for the idea, skeptically, but it seemed like it would help. This is the biggest pile of dung. God I hope it fails. If they can't do the right thing without being paid off, then go away. I love American, but give my cronies money or screw America :mad:

Over 400 pages. That just scares the hell out of me. Can you imagine what is buried in that Image

I'm pretty well convinced doing nothing is the best thing to do at this point.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:28 am

i have also changed my mind. i kinda thought it was a necessary evil at first, but now i would just rather they all go home and stay there till january :no: or maybe just for good. im hoping thye vote it down again, and it goes away. our economy will take a hit, but its a deserved hit. then hopefully congress will remove the regulations they imposed years ago that started this whole mess.

its gotta get worse to get better. and we need a good economic cleansing :thumbsup:
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:35 am

Hey but McCain and Obama voted for it. I see they are both for the change we can believe in :rofl: This just really pisses me off. I really hope a bunch of Democrats decide it's a good time to hate Bush again and not vote with him. I hope the Conservative Republicans can hang tough against this garbage. Never compromise your conservative principles. It always bites you in the ass.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Thu Oct 02, 2008 10:37 am

maybe nancy should give a speech :biggrin:
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Postby DuckinFool » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:40 am

Oink Oink Oink. Folks let's face it both parties have been over run with Porky Pigs.

McCain has sold the '08 election to the Dems for the price of the payoff money he has and will be collecting from the bailoutee corporations.

I just hope and pray things are not going to get as bad over the next four years as I have a bad feeling they are going to get. :thumbsdown:
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:12 pm

I just wrote a letter to my Representative. I hope everybody writes or calls their Representative and tells them this bill is worse than doing nothing.

Even for those that don't like the NRA, here a good site to get your Rep's contact info or send an e-mail.
http://www.capwiz.com/nra/dbq/officials/
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Postby Botiz630 » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:34 pm

the best thing to do would be nothing. it would hurt, but the market has to be allowed to fall far enough to find the bottom. the bailout or "rescue plan" as it is being called now would only be a false bottom and just lead to more problems down the road.
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Postby Rat Creek » Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:37 pm

Spinner:

Thanks for the link. I wasn’t able to write my representative from his website. Hopefully, that means all the right minded people are writing in begging them to represent the people’s views, and not to do as Speaker Pelosi orders them.

However, I was able to use the link to get my message through. Thanks.
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Postby SpinnerMan » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:38 pm

Botiz630 wrote:
Preacher1011 wrote:I thought bills went to the house and then the senate :huh:


it did start in the house. they voted it down. it went to the senate, who passed it. it goes back to the house now, with some changes to be voted on again
Actually they just used a scam to get around the Consitution.

http://www.projo.com/news/content/patrick_kennedy_bill_10-02-08_PEBPTH3_v12.19778fa.html

In order to get around the Constitution, the leaders turned to the time-honored stratagem of finding a live but dormant House bill — Kennedy’s mental-health parity bill — to use as a shell.

“They take out the entire text” of Kennedy’s old bill, “and then, by amendment, they substitute the other bill,” said Don Ritchie, an assistant Senate historian. Two bills, in this instance: the emergency rescue bill and the tax provisions and the final version of Kennedy’s mental-health parity wrapped inside.
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Postby DuckinFool » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:19 pm

SoLLLLLLDDDDDD!!!!! To the U.S. taxpayers for the measly sum of 700 billion dollars all the worthless paper and mortgages we can eat in the rest of our lifetimes.

Oh and by the way the "sell off" on Wall Street keeps trucking along. Now Arnold is asking for a $700 billion bailout for California.
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Postby QUACK3XS » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:52 pm

DuckinFool wrote:Oink Oink Oink. Folks let's face it both parties have been over run with Porky Pigs. :thumbsdown:




You got that right........I think there's pork $$$ for race track owners in the bill....WTH :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Will someone at least wave to the "Tidy Bowl Man" as they flush us down :no:
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:12 pm

i sure hope it does some good.... if it doesnt, i hope there is a real honest revolt.
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Postby QUACK3XS » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:15 pm

pennsyltucky wrote:i sure hope it does some good.... if it doesnt, i hope there is a real honest revolt.



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Postby Grouse » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:12 pm

Madame Speaker, only in Washington could a bill demonstrably worse than its predecessor be brought back for another vote and actually expect to gain votes. That this bailout was initially defeated was a welcome surprise, but the power-brokers in Washington and on Wall Street could not allow that defeat to be permanent. It was most unfortunate that this monstrosity of a bill, loaded up with even more pork, was able to pass.
The Federal Reserve has already injected hundreds of billions of dollars into US and world credit markets. The adjusted monetary base is up sharply, bank reserves have exploded, and the national debt is up almost half a trillion dollars over the past two weeks. Yet, we are still told that after all this intervention, all this inflation, that we still need an additional $700 billion bailout, otherwise the credit markets will seize and the economy will collapse. This is the same excuse that preceded previous bailouts, and undoubtedly we will hear it again in the future after this bailout fails.

One of the most dangerous effects of this bailout is the incredibly elevated risk of moral hazard in the future. The worst performing financial services firms, even those who have been taken over by the government or have filed for bankruptcy, will find all of their poor decision-making rewarded. What incentive do Wall Street firms or any other large concerns have to make sound financial decisions, now that they see the federal government bailing out private companies to the tune of trillions of dollars? As Congress did with the legislation authorizing the Fannie and Freddie bailout, it proposes a solution that exacerbates and encourages the problematic behavior that led to this crisis in the first place.

With deposit insurance increasing to $250,000 and banks able to set their reserves to zero, we will undoubtedly see future increases in unsound lending. No one in our society seems to understand that wealth is not created by government fiat, is not created by banks, and is not created through the manipulation of interest rates and provision of easy credit. A debt-based society cannot prosper and is doomed to fail, as debts must either be defaulted on or repaid, neither resolution of which presents this country with a pleasant view of the future. True wealth can only come about through savings, the deferral of present consumption in order to provide for a higher level of future consumption. Instead, our government through its own behavior and through its policies encourages us to live beyond our means, reducing existing capital and mortgaging our future to pay for present consumption.

The money for this bailout does not just materialize out of thin air. The entire burden will be borne by the taxpayers, not now, because that is politically unacceptable, but in the future. This bailout will be paid for through the issuance of debt which we can only hope will be purchased by foreign creditors. The interest payments on that debt, which already take up a sizeable portion of federal expenditures, will rise, and our children and grandchildren will be burdened with increased taxes in order to pay that increased debt.

As usual, Congress has show itself to be reactive rather than proactive. For years, many people have been warning about the housing bubble and the inevitable bust. Congress ignored the impending storm, and responded to this crisis with a poorly thought-out piece of legislation that will only further harm the economy. We ought to be ashamed.



That was Ron Paul's statement to the House today.
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Postby seastreet » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:31 pm

Grouse wrote:Madame Speaker, only in Washington could a bill demonstrably worse than its predecessor be brought back for another vote and actually expect to gain votes. That this bailout was initially defeated was a welcome surprise, but the power-brokers in Washington and on Wall Street could not allow that defeat to be permanent. It was most unfortunate that this monstrosity of a bill, loaded up with even more pork, was able to pass.
The Federal Reserve has already injected hundreds of billions of dollars into US and world credit markets. The adjusted monetary base is up sharply, bank reserves have exploded, and the national debt is up almost half a trillion dollars over the past two weeks. Yet, we are still told that after all this intervention, all this inflation, that we still need an additional $700 billion bailout, otherwise the credit markets will seize and the economy will collapse. This is the same excuse that preceded previous bailouts, and undoubtedly we will hear it again in the future after this bailout fails.

One of the most dangerous effects of this bailout is the incredibly elevated risk of moral hazard in the future. The worst performing financial services firms, even those who have been taken over by the government or have filed for bankruptcy, will find all of their poor decision-making rewarded. What incentive do Wall Street firms or any other large concerns have to make sound financial decisions, now that they see the federal government bailing out private companies to the tune of trillions of dollars? As Congress did with the legislation authorizing the Fannie and Freddie bailout, it proposes a solution that exacerbates and encourages the problematic behavior that led to this crisis in the first place.

With deposit insurance increasing to $250,000 and banks able to set their reserves to zero, we will undoubtedly see future increases in unsound lending. No one in our society seems to understand that wealth is not created by government fiat, is not created by banks, and is not created through the manipulation of interest rates and provision of easy credit. A debt-based society cannot prosper and is doomed to fail, as debts must either be defaulted on or repaid, neither resolution of which presents this country with a pleasant view of the future. True wealth can only come about through savings, the deferral of present consumption in order to provide for a higher level of future consumption. Instead, our government through its own behavior and through its policies encourages us to live beyond our means, reducing existing capital and mortgaging our future to pay for present consumption.

The money for this bailout does not just materialize out of thin air. The entire burden will be borne by the taxpayers, not now, because that is politically unacceptable, but in the future. This bailout will be paid for through the issuance of debt which we can only hope will be purchased by foreign creditors. The interest payments on that debt, which already take up a sizeable portion of federal expenditures, will rise, and our children and grandchildren will be burdened with increased taxes in order to pay that increased debt.

As usual, Congress has show itself to be reactive rather than proactive. For years, many people have been warning about the housing bubble and the inevitable bust. Congress ignored the impending storm, and responded to this crisis with a poorly thought-out piece of legislation that will only further harm the economy. We ought to be ashamed.



That was Ron Paul's statement to the House today.


Ron Paul may be a kook in regards to foreign policy, but there isn't a smarter man in Congress when it comes to our economy and domestic issues. :thumbsup:
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