what do i do???

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what do i do???

Postby Steven05 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:12 pm

i have 2 chessies a 2 yr old and her daughter 3 mo and the first thing is what do i do to get the pup to have a soft mouth and bring the bird to me she likes to pick it up and run away from me and after enough arguing with her she will finely bring it to me but for maybe 3 or 4 times..... and with her mom the 2 yr old she loves hunting and im hoping the pup will learn from her. one more thing.... how do i get the pup to sit still she wants to run around when ducks are coming????? thanks
Last edited by Steven05 on Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby green head2 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:41 pm

Wow Not to be rude But it sounds like to me That they have sat in a kennel all year and a week ago you thought you would take them hunting And let them out of the kennel First she is 4 mo old do not argue she is a pup If you push her to hard you will have now what you have with the 2yr old Lets start with the pup First get her in a hallway or somewhere she has only one choice And that is to come back to you And only play for 10 min or so And quit when she is begging for more Not when she gets bored or lets up and you get frustrated Then when she is doing fine at this take her in the yard on a check rope 20 or 30 ft at most So you can bring her back to you Not chase her all over This is a game of tag for a puppy She thinks its fun watching you chase her all over Also when in the hall After she loves retrieveing make her sit at the at the end of the retrieve And before you throw it This will help when in the boat next year The reson I say next year is because you need toleave her home and work on the 2 yr old The reason your 2 yr old does this is because of the way you trained as a pup The same thing you are doing to the pup now I would suggest Force fetching But I have seen many dogs ruined by this from guys that dont know what they are doing So Try this first same thing as the puppy play in the yard on the check rope And bring her to you if she wont come If she drops it then comes to you take her back to where it is make her sit put it in her mouth and say hold If she trys to drop it Tell her hold If she holds it for just a second tell her good girl put as soon as she drops get on her again Also tell her give As she is dropping it sometimes and pet on her She will finally get the idea You need to work on sit whoa and stay Hand signals and just about everything else Get some DVDs on trainning I will help anyway I can But telling you all this stuff And more could turn into a book You need to start all over really and work them all year Leave the pup home until you have the mom solid Keep your temper or you will lose I have a chessie And have had several This dog is not always the best dog to learn on My three yr old male is starting to try to out think me now Playing games swimming around the duck like he does not see it just little stuff Chessies are the best IMO but they are work sometimes Good luck
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Postby Steven05 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:07 pm

the mom is a good hunting dog i had her out opening day and i had the pup out the next day but i mean the mom does everything right exept when she retrieves the bird she will run to shore and drop it then run to me and sit... now if we are playing fetch or somthing she will bring it to me everytime. Also i have been working on her over the summer as much as possible untill she had her pups and when she got big i dident want her running around to much to disturbe the pups. but the pup i will try that... do u think the holding technique will work for the mom to bring it to me instead of droping it when she gets to shore?. but the mom i think over all other then the droping the bird is pretty good.. do u think she does it because she knows ill go pick it up?? i found for a while when she was a pup i have a lifted truck and i picked her up to get in it and i learned as she got bigger she was wanting me to pick her up and i had to brake her from that. but idk
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Postby h2oknine » Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:46 pm

Blunt and straight to the point. I agree with Green head 2 It doesn't sound like you did any training all off season especailly with the older female. I hear this all the time my dog has natural hunting ability and they all have that ability some stronger than others it is our job to teach and fine tune them to what we expect of them. As for dropping the bird I would recommend a force fetch her if you don't know how or feel uncomfortable doing that find a pro. As with the puppy put her on a 20 foot check cord when you throw a bumper let her get as you call her to you pull towards and even if you have to pull her to you praise her also ifs she drops just keep calling her the full retrieve will come you just want to teach the come in command first. Puppies attention spans a very short so keep the training sessions short.

The other thing I did was join a UKC Hunting Retriever Club and that sure helped me with my dogs in their hunting and my training. I will be glad to help in any way you can e-mail me. Huntingretrieverclub.org I hope this helps
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Postby green head2 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:13 pm

Because the pup is so young And still learning You do not want to take her hunting She will only pick up bad habits from the female She is to young to fetch a duck let alone a goose A goose would drowned her And a duck will make her bird shy Bring the duck home and play fetch with it Get her loving that smell teach her to find it in the yard As far as the hold thing goes I was referring to the two yr old The pup also needs to learn it but you have bigger problems to worry about sorta she is just a pup always tell yourself that This is all fun and games for her and you Just some things like running with the bird is not accetable Its not that big of deal now but in four more months it will be Start curbing the desire to keep it slowly teach her by making her want it and then quit right then She will learn the game countinues as long as she brings it back Dont think you will have drake the duck dog in the first year You can have a very reliable retriever But there is always something to work on It takes about six yrs to have a steady ready dog IMO one you can count on for every thing marking birds finding lost birds and so on Like I said start over with both of them If you cant get your dog to you when it wants to investigate a new dog I mean right now Then you need lots more time Start with the basics then move forward Dont listen to the guy at work bragging how great his dog is or was And then try to set that limit for your dogs They are all different I spent over 2000 on my new lab pup And all though she is doing great I had one years ago I got from the pound Not even sure she was a pure bred probably was but you never know That compared to this one Smoked her butt She was doing multipuls at six months of the whistle awsome dog I miss her still today I wish good bird dogs never got old there should be a law against it I do have a ? though off the topic And really none of my buissness Why did you breed you female so young And why did you keep a pup from her
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Postby Steven05 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:18 pm

she is almost 3yrs how old do u want her befor u bread her. and i kept a pup because we are not going to have the male for to much longer. (we found out after the litter) and i wanted 1 to remind me. but why start overr with the older 1 she does things fine i used her all last yr. i mean ya sure she wont bring the bird right up to me every time but maybe 5 times out of 10 is ok but im saying i want her perfect and i no i can get her that way in 2 or so weeks.. i have a lab thats is 4 and i trained him and he is a hell of a dog. and a nother chessie that is awsome. the chessie that just had pups i got her when she was damn near 1 yr and she couldent do anything but eat my food and i think i came along way with her. by the middle of last yr i had her doing things i dident think she was going to do. its more of the pup im worried about.
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Postby green head2 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:03 pm

This will probably start a argument But I believe it needs to be said
You ask how old do I think she should be before you breed her well At least 3 But What I would rather see is master hunter on her papers master hunter on his papers And several other CH on their papers To say Oh were losing the male I want one to remind me of him And to breed a dog under and for these reasons is IMO irresponsable There are 10 gillion dogs a year put to sleep And left to fend for themseleves from selfish breeding If you dont have a CH dog there is no other reason to breed period Look at the lab It is the #1 registerd dog Over 200,000 a year Chessies around 5000 at most Lets not ruin the chessie like the lab has been Now back to your other Questions At 3yrs old getting 5 out of 10 retrieves to hand is Unacceptable 10 for 10 and nothing less Start over Force fetch Pay a pro to do it If you think you can get a dog solid in two weeks fetching to you Stop working now And go into dog traing Stop asking for advice And start giving it You say it wont settle down in the boat You said it wont bring it to you with out Question It needs to be redone One thing you need to understand about chessies is They are not remote control dogs If you want one like that get a LAB They are to smart And too hard headed for their own good But retrieveing to hand is a must everytime No exceptions You have had her for 2 yrs She should be doing this already Im sorry if I sound harsh But you asked for help Then want to tell us how great of a trainer you are Your others might be good dogs And the reason you are having problems with these two is you have more than you can handle My 8 month old from what you have told me would run circles around your 3 yr old I have put in the time I have asked questions Then applied the ansewers I have trained many dogs both upland and water And still dont have all the ansewers But you are training a whole different type of dog with chessies And if you know them Then I dont need to give the reasons of how You cant be physical with a chessie he will lose respect for you its a mental game Also chessies dont do well with pre planned training regimes its day to day Basic obediance And retrieveing to hand everytime is what you need before anything else Which means starting over When I say stay that is it dont move even if a truck is comming If I say Whoa I mean not one step And so on Not well if they do it half the time that alright I wont post anymore advice for you Unless directly asked But if you dont believe you need to start over from what you have asked in both your post there is nothing else I can do to help Good luck
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Postby Steven05 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:26 pm

hahaha :toofunny: id like to see ur pup out hunt my 3yr old theres no way and the jumping around was the put i was talking about.. and i garrentee u cant take a 1yr old and turn it in to half the dog mine is.. give my pup 2 mo and then it will be.. IT WILL BE at the same pass as urs if not further.... the reason i was asking Qs is because u no everyone has there own oppinones and i has mine and iv been doing it and i wanted to see what others thought :withstupid:
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Postby green head2 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:40 pm

My 8 month old has retrieved 37 ducks and 6 geese to hand from the boat And held them until she was in the boat Payed attention to the whistle and hand signals Does not run around all over the boat Stays at the end of the bow and marks the birds We sent her two weekends ago on three birds that fell at the same time With my help through hand signals Our season started oct 1 I did not get one bird that weekend So she has done all of this in two weekends And 2 weekdays You have told us what your 3 yr old does I think comparing them is no comparison Im not trying to make this a my dog is better than your dog thing But you asked then argued You also 2 weeks not 2 months before Also what the heck makes you think you can do in 2 months what you have not been able to do in 2 yrs If your ever in utah bring your dog and money Then tell me about it All I did was try to help Yes others do things different And most all them work But with the problems your having One of two things One you dont know any of them Two you dont spend anytime with them Im thinking both Just my opinion Good luck with your dogs
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Postby cmelik10 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:18 am

Steven,

First off get yourself a solid training program be it and of Lardy's material, Evan Grahms SmartWork Series, Waterdog...anything. Dog training is not something that can be done on a speratic basis. You also have to decide what your goals are the your dogs: Solid Hunting Dog? Titled Dog?

Take your time with your dogs its not a race with training. Basic Obedience is so big with a hunting dog if it does not know OB then you need to leave it in the kennel till it does.

This includes retrieving.

Now to go on with this issue. I see retrieving to hand as a Basic Obedience issue. Take a step back and put the dog back on a check chord and throw bumpers for her. When she gets the bumper reel her in giving lots and lots of praise. DO NOT take the bumper right away that is her prize. Praise her praise her praise her while she has the bumper in her mouth. After some praise command her to give it up. Then throw it for her again doing the samething. Repeat this process until she is grabbing the bumper and coming back to you all the way without you having to reel her in. Once she is doing that then start extending the distance that you throw the bumper to just beyond the length of the check chord, but leave the chord on so that you can grab it and reel her in if need be. This will take sometime but it will be worth it in the end trust me. I agree with green head here 5 out of 10 is not acceptable for me anyways. I put in alot of time with my dog and I refuse to reach down to the ground and pick up a bird because she knows better than to drop it until I tell her to.

Remember OB OB OB OB then once you think you have done OB enough do somemore in different situations. I cannot stress to you enough how important OB is for a hunting dog not only for its safety but for the safety of everyone in the blind. I have heard of to many accident by dogs running around in the blind and hitting shotgun and having them go off and harming someone to take that chance.

Good luck
Scott

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Postby gsphunter » Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:54 pm

Steven I mean this in all sincerity. Your first post had a number of problems you are having with your dogs. Then when someone starts giving you advice, suddenly the dog can out hunt any dog.

Green Head is right, about breeding. Titles and a pedigree should come first, especially before questions about how old a dog should be to breed.

Have you watched any videos on training? Read any books? With all the questions you asked in your first post, this would be a better way to go about it.
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Postby Steven05 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:08 pm

my 3 mo is the one with the problems
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Postby green head2 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:02 pm

Cmon who you tring to kid A field CH And your having basic problems Whatever dude You need to get your story striaght Go back and reread your post All of them I noticed your not getting much help on this Could it be your attitude when someone points out faults in your trainning And tries to help Go buy a few books And a few DVDs then you can call the publisher And disagree with them :thumbsup:
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Postby lillusk3 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:39 pm

dude if your dogs a field champion then why won't it fetch a bird when yout ell it to?

sounds like you paid someone big bucks to run your dog.. then you got stuck with a dog that runs you... :getdown: :getdown: :getdown:
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Postby Steven05 » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:33 am

ok my bad maybe it was her first day jitters becuase i took her out again and she did every think correct. just as she did last yr i was just afraide when i seen her do it the first day she had picked up a bad habbit
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Postby Fowlercon » Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:55 pm

I'm having trouble following anything without puntuation. Please guys, use periods and commas for simple minded folks like me.
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Postby Brydog » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:21 am

If I was you,,,,,,I'd take Green Heads advice.


Basic Obedience......It all starts here.....every thing you teach your pups is possible due to being an obedient dog.

Try reading the "Ten Minute Retriever" by John and Amy Dahl
or
" Hey pup, Fetch it up"..By Bill Tarrant

Good luck to you and your pups
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Postby 98ramtough » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:56 am

Sounds like all basic obedience problems. Steven- you will get a lot further with your dogs by taking advise and not arguing. Sounds to me like 1st of all you have the dogs kenneled together and they have a very strong bond with each other. The younger one needs to be seperated from the mom. If you kennel them when you are gone, seperate them, you will never break that bond. Your dogs need to think you are God. No question about it, especially a chessie!

Chessies take longer to train, I am sure you know that, but if they are running around all the time you need to go back to basic obedience.

As far as field trial championships, great if you do, why lie if you don't? My dog has never seen a field trial, but I try to train him like hes a champ, he retrieved around 300 ducks last year in his first year, and he is from the pound.

Good luck,

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Postby maddiedog » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:38 am

My dog has the same problem. She does everything right except for she drops the bird 5 feet from me and comes and sits down next to me. She is only 2 so she still has a lot of pup in her. She is a pretty hyper dog. AND SHE IS NOT A FEILD CHAMPION OR PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED OR CERTIFIED!!! She was a cheap lab that my wife and I adore. She is by no means a great hunting dog...but I don't have to chase a majority of the ducks. And just so it doesn't get said we work together all of the time and she does great with a dummy (not me... a retrieving dummy). If you have a quick fix let me know. If not I will just get a little more muddy.
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Postby 7greenslady » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:17 pm

WOW........
So you guys were gettin' kinda scary there....Well, all I have to say is:

If you, the hunter, are not happy, something needs to change.

All I care is that my dog (7mo. black male lab, Kenai), is happy. We live on a lake. When Keke goes to the water, he loves it. We have only gotten him out to hunt once this year due to thousands of various issues. When we went, there were no ducks. So, we worked on sitting still in the blind, minding the decs, and keeping quiet (he's a whiner). To me, it was a great day. I spent hours just hangin out with Keke. He learned to sit still, and to keep quiet. He learned not to retrieve decoys. I have yet to see his first retrieve. He's a great companion. He'll probably never be a champ for the simple fact that I don't care what other people think of his "skills". Like Mike said, train 'em like they ARE champions, they should be to you anyhow.
We have two dogs, too. One, the hyper and stubborn one, is not ours. She is my b/f's brother's, and we are keeping her this school year, as he can't. Our dogs are 7mo. and 9mo. Believe me, they would be terrible together in the field. That's why we take turns with them. Keke on Sat. and Oakley on Sun. Afterall, we train them individually. When they are older and better trained, we'll try to run them together.
Rather than fighting with folks about whose dog is better, train your dog to do what YOU want it to do. If you ask questions, accept advice.
Kenai lets the kids pull his tail, ride him, and sleep on his belly. That's the best thing I could ever ask for in a dog. Maybe you want something different. That's why we all have our own dogs. Don't ya think so?
Have a good one, fellas.
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Postby Duck_hunter » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:24 pm

Steven05 is full of it i have hunted with him befor and his older dog is a great bird dog. i think he is wanting to make his dog the best there is out there. after we got done hunting i told him his dog was outstanding and he told me ahhh she could do a whole lot better.. but dong get me wrong he is a good guy. And ya his 3 mo has problems but she is 3mo she is still a pup.
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Postby bullet » Sat Nov 05, 2005 5:58 am

Sorry to vere off the subject (whatever it is)
7greenslady, A lil whining out of a 7 month old I'd say is normal. Might I suggest, you and your brother, get together in the off season and work the dogs together, HONERING, each others retrieve. There's no reason to leave one behind. I spent weeks working honering another dogs retrieve and it was the hardest thing we went through, and still going through. In the future you'll have a better dog for it. So will your brother. Don't get me wrong sounds like you've got a good pup, just a suggestion.
On the subject matter, when people ask "does a retriever really have to be force fetched?" The answer is yes. Once my 12 month old was force fetched at 6 months, every bird, dummy, stuffed animal, baseball, wiffle ball, has been delivered to hand. No ifs, ands, or buts.
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