She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:29 pm

Well time to put my ego in my back pocket...I just heard some devastating news Gauge is just average as dogs go when it comes to the speed at which she is training LOL. All is good starting third week of FF and going to the ground I think he said.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:41 am

Week #4 for FF and she has moved to the table now, Rick said everythign is goign along good and her drive and attitude is still good even though he will be taking her off birds till she is finished. I can't wait to see my little plack girl and get her back home I didn't think I would miss her this much LOL.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:12 pm

Well a little up date from the trainer, I had a great talk tonight and it seems that things are coming together gauge is doing well with the force and is not into the fetch work. She is also getting CC and is accepting it well mixed with obedience work. Rick still states he can not believe how stubborn and how much pressure she can take but he still says that this is not a bad thing but just a thing. She has been getting a lot of gun fire, remote launchers, big water work and big mark work. I really had no idea of how big...big really was so I decided to ask. Apparently big is 450 yards, medium is 200 to 250 yards and a typical short mark is 100 to 150 yards. He said she has at times on big marks came all the way in and with in the last couple of yards heard other gum shots and has dropped the bird in anticipation of another bird. This being said he has shortened her to medium and short marks trying to get it to sink in that she has to come and hold until commanded to drop.

I mentioned a visit near the end of October and was extended the use of a full basement suite, a ride too and from the airport if I fly and the chance to go out and shoot some live wild birds in a hunting situation with my dog :biggrin: I will be going that's a Hell Yeah on that offer! Rick said she is not a top gun field trial dog but said she will make one hell of a good hunter. I am feeling pretty good about the whole sending her away to a trainer.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:03 am

Well not the news I was looking for when I talked to the trainer but it was not really bad news I guess. I was planning on going to go see Gauge and do a bit of training and do a hunt with her and Rick this weekend. After last night he informed me that it may be better to wait a while. She was thru the bench on FF and was working on the ground with fetch/no fetch drills and she was doing fine but she then started to either get anxious or impatient or bored Rick is not sure but started to drop items before she got to the next one.

He also said that she was still having some issues with larger ducks, she is picking them up by the wings and head but not mouthing them and picking them up by the bodies. She has no problems with the smaller birds and smaller ducks but thinks that she may have a confidance issue or is a bit inmature yet. He says that he can place a large duck in her mouth and she will accept it and hold it but she has not scooped one up yet on her own by the body. He says as soon as she does the first one the light will go on and she should not have a problem. He says that she is certainly smart enough, has the desire and drive but this is just taking a little time. He said that every dog has some small hang up and he has seen this lots in his 25 or so years training and it is nothing to be worried about. Long story short she has moved back up to the table.

Inputs or thoughts would be good from you training guys.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:33 am

Phild wrote: Inputs or thoughts would be good from you training guys.


Yes. Nearly every guy that I know who (despite their best attempt) tried to FF their first dog, by program and advice only, did a poor or incomplete job and paid for it later.

You cannot beat the experience, input and advice you got here. Sounds like a good call to me.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby LaRedneck » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:48 am

Don't sweat it man, sometimes you need to take a step back to get ahead. Better to correct the problem now than to have issues down the road. :beer:
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Dakota Creek » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:00 pm

LaRedneck wrote:Don't sweat it man, sometimes you need to take a step back to get ahead. Better to correct the problem now than to have issues down the road. :beer:


x's 2 !!!
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Tue Oct 30, 2012 6:58 pm

Roger that I knew it was the right call and the best thing to do I guess that three months is a more realistic length of time for training anyway. It would have been nice to have gone hunting with her, he did say she would have no problem hunting but could not say if she would 100% pick up all the big birds.

Thanks for the input
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby LaRedneck » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:20 am

She probably just needs some confidence, FF'n is a very stressfull thing for pups to go through and once they build that confidence the training sinks in and takes off..........you just need some patiences in the mean time :yes:
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby colton341 » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:55 pm

Could it be he is not giving enough fun marks with the bigger ducks?
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:07 am

16 Days to go then I am off to pick up fur baby. It has been a long three months but she is doing well and will be ready to go. Duck season is still on in my area too bad there is just 5 inches of ice and -25 C temps the birds are long gone.

I am glad I took the advice from here and sent her to a pro even though I have not seen what she has learned from her new training I am sure it was the right decision. When I think back of what a great season I had this year hunting with friends and my kids I do not think I could have left poor Gauge at home. I am sure she would have developed some inappropriate habits as well now that she went to my trainer I am sure he would take her back for refresher training in the spring or summer before hunting season if I am so inclined. Ticking off the days I hope to get that hunt in when I go pick her up as well the temps where she is at is prime duck season ranging from 4 to -1 degrees.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby HNTFSH » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:16 am

Phil - getting your pup back with a solid foundation is ideal - glad you recognize that. :thumbsup: You've now the platform to continue on teaching advanced work and concepts. Can't help with the weather though. :lol3:
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:49 am

Finally tomorrow is the day I head out to get Gauge, it have been 83 days since I last seen her and we will be spending the last few days with the trainer together to make it a total of 89 days. It was a long time, since she went away so young 9 months that means that she spent just over two months at the breeder, four months with me and three months with the trainer LOL she has been away more that she has been home up until this point.

I had another post going on her FF and picking off the ground was not going as well as expected, I have not called the trainer back to see what progress has been made in the last week or so and at this point I am not too concerned with it. We have all read on here about dogs that are FF and CC and the argument of those who are neither and how these two areas in training do or do not make a hunting dog. I am confidant that Gauge will make a great hunting partner and to me that is what counts most. If she has not completed the ground work at the trainer we will continue to work on it over the winter, we will for sure have enough cold long dark days to go to the shop and plug away at her own pace that's for sure.

If her OB is solid as the trainer says, her hold is great and FF is completed up to the point of ground work then I am sure that she has a solid foundation to build on. Just a little tid bit of information it is -22 degrees C here in Grande Prairie, Alberta now and the forecast for Penticton, British Columbia where the trainer is is +10 degrees C lol that is a 32 degree difference poor Gauge won't know what hit her when she gets back home. Oh and I know many people gave me advice on what E collar to get, I have the TT pro 100 coming in the mail. Thanks Sue at www.dakotacreekretrievers.com both for Gauge and all your guy's help.

More to come when Gauge and I get back thanks again for all the input on my thread here I have read and re read this many times.

Thank you,
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby tenfingergrip » Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:03 pm

Phil, I know you are anxious to pick up your girl. Hope the trip goes well and I know she'll go nuts when she sees you!
For what it's worth and if it's any consolation, I've never had any of my labs FF'd.

I've owned 8 labs over the last 41 years and none of them have ever refused to pick up a dummy, bumper or bird. They've never dropped a bird or bumper (other than when teething) and were all a pleasure to train and hunt over. Two of those dogs, in my younger days trialing & testing, were Master Hunters, never going thru a Junior or Senior.

So what I'm getting at is, don't be too concerned about the FF situation she experienced. Give her lots of love & praise, throw lots of marks, run lots of blinds, keep up the obedience and she'll be a great hunting companion for you. You've already shown you have what it takes to train a fine retriever. Continue with the program you were on when you sent her off and she won't miss a beat. Good luck and keep us informed!
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Dakota Creek » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:11 pm

Phil ....
You are very welcome!!

It has been great watching the two of you developing into a team! Think we are as excited as you are with this trip into the interior to pick up Gauge and hear how she's done!

Travel safe and hope you have a great time with YOUR training learning with Rick!
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:07 am

Well we made the trek it was very interesting to say the least starting in -27 C temps with snow and ice covered roads driving into the mountains with switch backs, ravines steep descents and little or no cell coverage for the first 700kms (430miles). The you can notice a temperature shift as you notice you are coming down out of the mountains and the roads are getting bare all the trees around you are becoming less and less full of snow until you are at the bottom of a valley with bare fields and flowing rivers. I did have one more mountain pass to go over and back down into the Okanagan Valley which was where the trainer lived. The total trip one way was 1173kms or just over 733 miles, 14 hrs due to bad roads and having to stop at a walmart because I forgot my suite case LOL.

Day one we went thru the daily morning routine the trainer did with airing, running and feeding the dogs (11 dogs) 8 of them all black labs the other three he was watching for a friend. Of the 8 labs I think that 5 of them had earned some title of a sort in field trials all very very good dogs, all doing quads.

After all the dogs were loaded on the truck he went thru her OB and then moved on to her FF to show me where she was at. Remember she was at the point of (make me do it) pick it off the ground. The session lasted a bit longer and he said that he was a bit harder on her than normal but we had a break thru she started doing a walking fetch buy the end of the session. We were both very pleased because she showed us that she understood what she was told to do and could comply if she wanted too. I now understood what Rick meant by her being a (make me do it dog).

We headed out the field to do some training with the "big" dogs and man they were amazing he had (from left to right) a cold blind to the left 120 yards, two marks in the middle 150 yards and 180 yards and a second cold blind to the right 200+ yards. We only took 6 dogs including my Gauge and his Reggie who are both 10 months and very much the level except Reggie is pretty much FF. Out of the 6 dogs 4 of them all ran the test and did the marks of course the two younger dogs did not.

Reggie came out and worked on an 80 yard mark, 100 yard mark and tried for a 150 yard mark thru light cover but we had to move him up past the cover he is very inattentive and buggy looking all around and kept missing the mark. Rick asked if I wanted to run Gauge but warned me that she had never seen the launchers, picked up one of the bumpers from it and he had not done any field work in two months....I was a bit worried that she would not pick up and hold the bumpers but I had to see where she was at. We brought her out teased and played with a machine bumper and she was excited so we did the 80 yard mark, as soon as she bent down I gave her the "here" and called her in not giving her time to think about not picking up the mark and sure as hell she came in with it heeled and dropped it, I told her to fetch it up and had to ear pinch to get her to comply. Second 100 yard mark same thing but no ear pinch on the fetch it up and the 150 yard mark she held it but I sat her in front of me instead of a heel. Seemed like with too many commands the heel, sit, hold she would drop. A more simple sit hold as it is one the same when she has a bumper, or bird in her mouth was better. I was very please and Rick did comment that he did not think she would have done it and commented on her ability to pay attention and mark.

Day two brought more FF which was worse at first, if you have never seen FF on your dog and you are a soft person and plan to do it yourself better think twice. As an avoidance to the ear pinch pressure the dog will cry, yelp, roll and bare down for more pressure until it finally say it is easier to just pick up the damn bumper. However in anticipation of this pressure the dog will start to yelp even when you are not touching them, a huge learning point for me. But this time she was now doing the walking fetch again with both bumpers and birds.

We took Gauge and Reggie out again this time to a different location and we did a 100 yard bumper up the side of a hill, a 120 yard pigeon and a 150 yard duck all were spot on and held at the end delivered to hand (again I did not demand a heel just a sit hold) We moved locations and did a 80 yard bumper in light cover, a 100 yard pigeon in more cover and finally a 120 yard mallard in even more cover. All of these last six retrieves were done in 3 to 6 inches of snow as well. We did have a drop on the mallard at the end but I am not sure if it was a reposition drop or a real drop, I was commanding heel, sit, hold to remind her and a quick fetch it up did the trick. On this day I was feeling great I seen what she really could do and I also seen the difference between her and another dog that was thought to be farther along than her...again she got lots of praise from the trainer for her marking ability.

Sorry for the long post but this is the first time in 3 months I had anything to report, we are going to clean up her FF, walking fetch then move to stick fetch and then start some pile work in my shop in the evenings since it is -27C and over a foot of snow. We are going to take is slow and easy and since she is back with me and has always wanted to please me I think that we are going to have more success, once she knows that if she is asked and must comply and even my owner is going to put pressure on me then I think she will come around a lot faster. I have some pics of the Highway Thru Hell...yes it is a TV show too that I traveled and will get them up later.
Image

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http://www.discovery.ca/Showpage.aspx?sid=45238
Videos http://watch.discoverychannel.ca/highway-thru-hell/highway-thru-hell-roughin-up-the-rookie/#clip774599

Later
Phil
Last edited by Phild on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby quacknstack6 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:58 pm

great to hear everything went well phil. I have my pup at the trainer right now and he is telling me nothing but good things so far.I am overseas right now and Mack has only been with Labman for about 2 months now and it feels like an eternity. Keep us posted on all of the work and best of luck to ya.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:38 am

Well we did our first official homework assignment last night LOL we went to the shop and continued with FF. I took three different sized bumpers rubbed them down with ducks and got her going a bit and started with fetch from hand with each lowing until we were on the ground with them in my hand. All went well and did not have a rejection, I knew that this may not have been a problem anyway as she was doing well in this. Next I went with the large bumper to the floor and we had not problems she was picking it up fine and holding, happy happy happy. We then moved to her picking off the floor sitting, holding and then heeling and walking around and back to a sitting position again no problems. Lastly we went to a toss, walk up pick up continue to heel and do some sitting and heeling. Some times she would cigar the bumper but she did have it I would rearrange and command hold and continue on. I did this for three complete walks around the shop bay and decided to put out the three different bumpers and walk to each one and do a fetch/sit/hold they were fine so I deciede to call it good. The whole session took no more than 20 mins start to finish. My plan is to continue this for the next week or two until I know she is reliable before moving on to stick fetch.

Image

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:54 pm

Here are a few others from the trip as well

getting ready to do some single work
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Trainers front yard view
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Grape vines
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Just old Gauge
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Avalanche gates
Image

Elk in the Town of Jasper AB
Image

First day back in the snow
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New digs for lounging in
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Image

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby fowled out » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:42 am

phil, im glad to see you got the pup back. i sent mine out to a pro around the same time you did and i think i still have another month or so to wait. its killing me to not have her around but i just have to keep telling myself that this is better for both of us in the long run.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:02 am

Fowled, after watching the pro try to finish up and break her in FF I now know what is involved and never would have been able to do it myself. Gauge was gone for 3 months which is really just the tip of the iceberg and I wish I could have had her there longer but now that she is holme I sure am glad. One of the biggest things and everyone has said it is "spend time with the trainer" I learnt more in 3 days than I did from all the reading, videos and internet put together seeing and watching and being corrected by the trianer is far more valuable. You are right it is hard and you want them home but Gauge would not be at the stage she is today if she did not go away. When your pup comes home she will not have forgotten you or your family.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby fowled out » Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:46 am

thanks for the uplift phil. i know she wont forget us and that is part of the problem the trainer is having with her....in his word.....spoiled bitch....yep...guilty as charged. mostly from the ole lady but in the first 30 minutes he spent with my pup he showed me how soft i was...and i thought i was being fairly stern. he had her doing things in minutes i had tried for days. thats when i knew she had to go. i have been egging him about me coming out to work with her but he says it is too early and he doesnt want her to backslide...not a problem, he is the boss. it helps now that he is sending video updates about once a week. i have come to grips that she wont hunt this season and thats fine. i just want her to be the pup i am paying for. once again, best wishes with the little lady.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:58 pm

Mine too took a back step and I dod not get to go out on my first planned trip which was for the best becasue she was really just on the table FF. He was not doign any marking or bumper work with her at this point. Gauge is what my trainer called a "make me do it" dog so I can relate LOL but I honestly do not think I would hav had the fortitude to have broke her and FF'ed her from the start. My girl did not hunt this year either which is good, could she have? I think so but she would have only been doing it for herself not becasue it was her job. Going to the trainer and missing a year potentially stopped many problems before they started and gave her a stronger foundation to be a great hunting partner for the next 10 or so years to come. That I think is where the pay off comes into play becasue I know what you mean about seeing what you pay for but I don't know if we ever will becasue I can't put a dollar value on what was done. Am I happy I spent the money, yes yes I am becasue if I did not now as a pup and I created bad habbits I may have spent 3 or 4 times as much to have that trained out and have her trained properly.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:33 pm

A little -27C, three feet of snow morning coffee work LOL well it was something


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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby fowled out » Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:17 am

holy crap that is cold.....65 degrees here...looks like she is doing well..:clapping: keep it up. im still waiting...lol. trainer says she is coming along. working on walking fetch and some longer watermarks. still itching to see her but im making it.
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