She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby copterdoc » Fri May 10, 2013 9:11 pm

Looking good!

Instead of saying hold repeatedly, with no enforcement, say here or sit WITH enforcement when she tries to shake before delivering.

As she is leaving the water, a here-nick is an excellent correction. At your side, I much prefer a sit-swat with a heeling stick, over a nick from the collar.

She has to KNOW that she can't shake off, until you have taken the bumper.

Eventually, you can get to the point that she won't shake off even after delivery. Until you have given her permission.

But, to get to that point, you have to first use indirect pressure on HERE and SIT, to correct her for trying to shake off.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Fri May 10, 2013 9:14 pm

Thanks I read pretty much that same comment form you on a search on RTF from like 2009 or something. I thought tonight I would start with the repeated commands and just get her to keep the damn thing in. I am thinking the water is still cold and will only get maybe one or two trips in the pond a day. But from now on I am going to be doing as you said. Thanks for your input.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Thu May 23, 2013 2:53 pm

Well we are movign thru double T pretty solid and glad I have the program to follow. We had a couple of days off for camping and just messed around with some casting on a mini T, since we have came back to the yard and have done mini T and will be doing full T tonight. I did notice that she gave me a couple of poor loopy wide sits but the program covered that and I got on it right away. Noticed last night it was much better.

Later
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby krazybronco2 » Thu May 23, 2013 6:02 pm

may i ask why you are doing double t before single t?
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby CatSquirrel » Thu May 23, 2013 6:15 pm

He said Full T, not Double T.

I am assuming he means Single T.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Thu May 23, 2013 10:25 pm

krazybronco2 wrote:may i ask why you are doing double t before single t?


Lardy makes it a progression, lining back pile, force to back pile, sit to pile, come in from pile, over work, mini T, full T, then double T. There may be a step or two in there I missed but I am at the stage now where we are working on the 125 yard back pile and the furthest set of overs he calls it full T I think. But the entire progression results in Double T. Clear as mud LOL.

Later
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby krazybronco2 » Fri May 24, 2013 6:04 am

Phild wrote:
krazybronco2 wrote:may i ask why you are doing double t before single t?


Lardy makes it a progression, lining back pile, force to back pile, sit to pile, come in from pile, over work, mini T, full T, then double T. There may be a step or two in there I missed but I am at the stage now where we are working on the 125 yard back pile and the furthest set of overs he calls it full T I think. But the entire progression results in Double T. Clear as mud LOL.

Later
Phil


ok gotcha sounds about where we are but will be taking a few weeks off till she is out of heat before i really start working on the single t mostly so i can apply the force when needed. mostly just lining the back pile and stopping once or twice and casting straight back.

not sure if lardy forces to the over piles but some advice i got from my trainer is not to waste your time forcing on the overs because when you get into advanced casting and cold blinds you always want the dog to be driving back to the pile or bird straight overs should be short and just to get to the bird. again something i didnt think about until i asked and figured i would pass it along if you want to use it.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Fri May 24, 2013 8:21 am

Thanks, no he does not force to the over piles. Gauge did pretty well last night for her first full on 125 yard single T. I did notice that she has started to put a slight curve in her line to the back pile. Before she was lining it as straight as can be, not to brag but I mean really straight. Unfortunatly we are working in my shop yard on gravel and stupid me made the line right next to a drain grate, last week she came back in with a small limp so we stopped. I am now wondering if she hurt her foot on the grate and is now avoiding it by swinging out by it?

She lines great for the first 70 yards moves off the line about 5 or 6 feet to the right and then moves back in line. She moves out at the exact same grate area.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Labber » Fri May 24, 2013 8:01 pm

Phil,
For my first post here I'm simply going to ay that this diary you have created is excellent!
I'm sure many others have benefited from it, or just enjoyed it.
I hope you keep going with it.
Here's a pic of Guages Daddy!

Image
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Fri May 24, 2013 10:12 pm

Thanks Scott, I seen that pic before and really like that shot, soon I will have a daughter pic just like it.

Thanks
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Sat May 25, 2013 9:27 pm

Well it had been awhile since new pics but tonight we were out and did a few marks, nothing long 70-80 yards but in some pretty decent cover. I guess the last one I made it tough and stretched her out after her confidence was up to about 100 yards.

I think I will call this post Duck Dogs, Guns and Trucks!

Image

Image

This is Liam 5 years old and he wanted to shoot a blank round. He the told me to take my had off "so I can pump it dad"
Image

Then he needed to drive out of the gravel pit.
Image

Later
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Sat May 25, 2013 9:29 pm

Whats an up date without a video, here was Gauge and her first time jumping off a dock.


Later
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby tenfingergrip » Sun May 26, 2013 6:18 am

OOPs!
You made your video private so you are the only one that can see it, Phil. You can go back in to youtube and change the setting to public and repost.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Sun May 26, 2013 10:12 am

Oops I mean it was okay but not private worthy lol

Thanks
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Sun May 26, 2013 1:40 pm

Oh man, great start went to shits fast today lol. We went back to our area where we have been running double T, we are now at the stage of running the full Double T. Put Gauge away set up the full Doubble T and then went out to the first intersection (new) T and identidied and cast to both left and right piles. No Issues.

Moved to the line and ran a back cast, still sailing went straight to the pile, she did have a look at the two over piles on the way out but ran a nice line to the back pile. Sent her from side with a back and sat and first intersection and sent for a left over then a far intersection sit and a right over. Still no problems, smooth sailing just like I thought it would be.

Next i go to run a back from my side and she goes out and goes to the second left over pile. Whistle sit and back cast, still vering to over pile whistle sit and back cast again and she makes the back pile. I try to run the back pile again wanting a good line with no casts or whistle sits, same damn thing but this time she would took 3 casts.

So after wondering where it all went wrong I moved in to the first intersection about 5 yards away from the sit spot and handeled her from closer up all with remote sits 5 yards in front of me. Now this was golden her running to the back pile was a bit slower but she may have been tired but we finished off the drill with all perfect casts.

In hind sight should I have started this double T that way instead, I followed the program exactly as demoed and things were goign well untill she had a brain fart. I am in no rush so I think next run I will start 10 yards out form the first intersection run all 5 locations and creep back to the line.

Thanks
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby CatSquirrel » Sun May 26, 2013 2:43 pm

I always run T drills of any kind for young dogs with a white small bumper in my back pocket. If you're seeing confusion, you can move up to the dog and toss a bumper to the correct pile and get the correct cast. Remember, you're teaching casting at this point, so you want to have success. The only time I use collar pressure is for a complete lack of effort (not saying you used pressure, just telling you what I do)

Also, at first I generally use white bumpers for my back pile with orange for the over piles. For my dogs, it seems to maintain the flow out to the back pile. Then, I id the over piles by throwing a white bumper to them. Gradually, I mix in white bumpers at the over piles to provide a bit of suction and to help with casting to the correct pile. At the end, I rebalance to almost all orange bumpers to build trust.

I hope that makes sense to you. It's kinda hard to explain.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby copterdoc » Sun May 26, 2013 8:38 pm

CatSquirrel wrote:...Also, at first I generally use white bumpers for my back pile with orange for the over piles....
That's a great training tip. It helps a lot with some dogs that are trying a little too hard.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Sun May 26, 2013 8:47 pm

Yep it does make good sense, thanks I will change it up on tomorrows run. Thanks for the tip Cat. I can really see the " trying too hard thing" as well it's like she just wanted to get the all on that one side.

Later Phil
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Dakota Creek » Mon May 27, 2013 4:14 am

As well as using orange bumpers on the side piles, initially I will only use one or two bumpers on the orange "piles" so the distraction is not too great once the dog realizes that there are bumpers on the side piles. It is a little more walking to reset the over piles but have found this gives you several runs past the orange overs with the dog keying in on the big white pile of bumpers at the back pile. Once the dog is consistently ignoring the orange overs I increase the number of orange bumpers and start to transition to white for greater potential suction on route to the back pile.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby copterdoc » Mon May 27, 2013 9:47 am

I would never put anything other than two bumpers on each over pile.

The idea being that the dog should only be sent to each over pile one time per session. But, if the dog has trouble with one of them, I want to be able to repeat it immediately.

I want 7 or 8 bumpers on the back pile, and I want the dog to bring back every one of them.
Add to that 4 more over piles, that's a minimum of 11 sends per TT session.

100+ yards out, 100+ yards back in.
A dog that has finished a TT session like that, has sprinted the equivalent of a mile and a half during a single session.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Dakota Creek » Mon May 27, 2013 11:48 am

Coptordoc,

I should have added I only add a bumper or two to the over piles as it gives me an additional over bumper should I need a repeat one side or the other should we have trouble on the over. It doesn't mean the dog picks them all up. And like you, I want to be able to repeat this immediately. Totally agree that by the time the four overs (two per side) and six or seven backs are done, the dog is ready for a break.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Labber » Mon May 27, 2013 8:50 pm

When Dbl T is going well, I will put birds on the overs, and bumpers on the back pile, then Vice-Versa, to encourage wilful disobedience & a stronger "Handling attitude". But not until the cast response on bumpers is very very good. It also gets the dog used to picking up what ever is deamanded of it. It's creating the opportuntity to correct.
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Mon May 27, 2013 11:46 pm

Well tonight went much better, I went with 4 and 8 things went much better. I was really concerned about success so shortened up the line tonight just to be a bit closer to her we ran all 12 with only one extra sit still hung up on that left side I left 2 bumpers in the back pile for the end and it was after the far left. On the back command she veered that way, blew a sit and back cast her to the pile. Last bumper went well after that, all 4 overs were fine. Try again tomorrow. Thanks for all the input team :thumbsup:

Later
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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby Phild » Wed May 29, 2013 8:22 pm

Ding, ding ding the light went off, double T went great tonight although it was in the rain. Tomorrow night adding a single white bumper for draw.

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Re: She's Here Dakota Creek's Gauge

Postby CatSquirrel » Wed May 29, 2013 8:34 pm

I would advise you to run that same configuration a couple more sessions and proof what you got.
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