DD breeding confirmed

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DD breeding confirmed

Postby OmegaRed » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:17 pm

So excited. Found out today pups will be born in early May. Originally thought I was going to be in another breeding, then decided to hold off for this one. Both really high scoring parents, should make a fine puppy.

Dam:
Jahra ll v. Eikendorf
VJP 75
HZP 210 +10 Hegewald
VJP 319 prize one
coat 9
conf. 10

Sire:
Falk vom Fuchsburg (male stud)
VVJP 76
HZP 214
VGP 331 prize one
coat 10
conf. 11
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Rick Hall » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:29 pm

And so the longest wait begins.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:32 pm

Those are some very impressive numbers. Mine is on the ground but only 3 weeks old. Doing my best to be patient.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:38 pm

Stud a direct German import?
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby OmegaRed » Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:38 am

Jesse Jaymes wrote:Those are some very impressive numbers. Mine is on the ground but only 3 weeks old. Doing my best to be patient.


Sweet. Make sure you toss some pics up when you get them. It'll help soothe the pain LOL.

The dam is straight from Germany. Just got here within the last month or so. Sire is owned by a VDD judge and being used in this breeding. Puppy owners from the Sire have great reports on progress of their dogs.

Where is your pup out of?
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby krazybronco2 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:25 am

what do the numbers mean?
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby OmegaRed » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:34 am

krazybronco2 wrote:what do the numbers mean?

http://www.vdd-gna.org/testing-programs/

"The testing program of Group North America adheres to all VDD and JGHV Test Regulations. To evaluate hunting ability, VDD/GNA sponsors Spring Natural Ability Tests (VJP), Fall Breed Tests (HZP), Fall Utility Tests (VGP), and Coat and Conformation evaluations (Breed Shows)."

I've never done any testing so if anyone knows more than me feel free to pipe up. But each test has a set of guidelines that they are testing on. They are scored to 12 (highest), with ranges meaning good, excellent etc. So higher scores are better.

Each test is based on different things. The first is essentially a puppy test for "inherited" natural ability. Second is for dogs (I believe) up to 18 months, and the VGP is a "finished" dog test.

Example of VGP testing guidelines. http://www.jgv-usa.org/Test_Descriptions/VGP.htm

" VGP - Association Utility Test



The VGP is a test that evaluates a finished versatile hunting dog. Dogs tested at this level are expected to handle any game in any hunting situation. Most of the dogs who run a VGP are between 18 and 36 months of age. A full VGP (with 4 dogs) will usually last for two whole days. A VGP consists of 4 different subject areas: field, forest, water, and obedience.



To put it simply, a VGP is basically a HZP plus forest work and some additional obedience requirements. The scoring in a VGP, however, is unique. The dogs are scored on a 1-4 scale. Dogs that perform exceptional work can also be scored with a 4H in any natural ability category. Although this designation does not affect their score, it will be noted in permanent record. VGPs also differ from VJPs and HZPs in that a Prize is awarded for passing dogs. Thereore, a dog that completes a VGP will not only receive a final score, but also a Prize I, II, or III designation.



In the field portion of the VGP, the following attributes are evaluated:

Nose - A dog will need to demonstrate a good nose, to have the ability of finding game.

Search - A dog is required to demonstrate a high level of desire, stamina, and cooperation in this phase.

Pointing - Intensity, honoring and steadiness to shot are all observed and a dog is required to demonstrate these traits at a high level. The dog must be steady to wing and shot.

Manners - A dog is required to demonstrate the ability to relocate and hold the game.

Gamebird Drag - A dog is required to demonstrate a desire to find the game quickly and without any additional directions from the handler.

Gamebird Retrieve - A dog is required to complete the retrieve of a shot gamebird.

In the water work portion of the VGP, the following attributes are evaluated:

Marked Duck Retrieve - The dog sees a dead duck thrown into the water. After the dog is sent for the retrieve, a shot will be fired over the dog to ensure that he/she is not gun sensitive in the water. The dog must complete the retrieve.

Search Without A Duck - A dog is sent to search a large body of water that is devoid of any game. The handler must remain in place but may assist the dog by pointing and giving a few directional commands (the fewer the better). The dog must hunt persistently and show a strong desire to find game whether they come across any scent or not. Usually, the judges will expect a dog to search for 10 minutes before allowing the handler to call the dog back.

Blind Retrieve- A dog is required to show the ability to locate the game by either signals from the handler or by using his/her own desire to search. Minimum distance of 30 Meters.

Search Behind A Duck - It is important for a dog to show ability to follow the duck track on the water using the nose. A dog that works with eyes alone will not be rated.

In the forest portion of the VGP, the following attributes are evaluated:

Blood Tracking For Hoofed Game - This is performed on a lead and a dog must demonstrate calm and confident concentration, as well as initiative and desire. A dog must have the ability to guide the handler to where the game is and behave correctly while searching for the game. The blood trail is approximately 400 meters long and usually aged between 2 and 8 hours. Handlers may also request an overnight blood trail for additional points.

Furred Game Drag Track - The judges lay a 300-meter fox drag (fox should be provided by the handler). The handler must send the dog with 1 command. The dog must complete the track and retrieve the fox to hand. The manner of working the track and the retrieve are both taken into account for scoring, as well as the use of the nose, perseverance, and desire. There are two parts to scoring: the track and the retrieve.

Furred Game Retrieve Over Obstacle - A fox is placed behind a natural barrier (usually about 30 inches tall). The handler must send the dog with one command. The dog must jump over the obstacle to retrieve the fox to hand.

Independent Forest Search - The dog is sent to search a wooded area that is not known for holding game. The dog is expected to search diligently until called back by its handler. Perseverance, passion, and boldness are all taken into account for the rating of a dog. Generally, the judges want to see a dog search the woods for 10 minutes without another command from their handler before they will allow the dog to be called back.

Dense Cover Search - In this portion of the test, the dog and handler are asked to search a dense wooded stand. The dog will be required to demonstrate a calm and purposeful search. The judges will fire a few shots randomly during the search. The dog is expected to remain calm and under the control of their handler even while the shots occur.

In the obedience portion of the VGP, there are seven main categories being evaluated:

Obedience during the driven hunt - The is put on a down-stay or a sit-stay and expected to remain quietly by the handlers side while a mock driven hunt is conducted right in front of the dog. The driven hunt consists of several people yelling and shooting as they push through the woods in front of the dog.

Heeling on lead - The dog is required to heel on lead with its handler while weaving in and out of trees in a wooded area.

Heeling off lead - The dog is required to heel off lead with its handler. The judges will ask the handler to vary walking/running speed, stop, and change directions to evaluate the dog's ability to heel off-lead.

Down/Stay - The dog is placed on a down/stay while the handler walks out of sight. The handler fires a couple of shots before returning to the dog. The dog must remain in place throughout the entire process.

Steadiness to Wing - During the field portion of the VGP, the dog is expected to remain steady to the flush of a gamebird.

Steadiness to Shot - During the field portion of the VGP, the dog is expected to remain steady to the shot after a gamebird is flushed.

Overall Obedience - A dog's obedience is judged during the entire time of the 2-day test. A dog should be under the handler's control at all times...whether the handler is sending the dog for a retrieve or just walking the dog back to the car.
"
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby loner » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:48 am

congrats, now it's time to start studying up on training!
just remember gotta have pics!
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:59 am

I skimmed thru Omegas response. I just wanted to add that a 12 is beyond rare as a score and you can track how many are given nation wide annually I believe. 11s are very difficult to obtain. I believe an 8 is listed as Above Average.

My pup is going to be out of vom Natohaus in Washington. While the kennel may not have VJP scores of 75, the breeder/handler took the Armbruster top score last fall. That is pretty much the Grand Prix of tests for the DD. a competitor against the best Drahts in the US. Only one of those per year.

Very cool to hear of another DD guy Omega. There are not many, and fewwer in the Waterfowl circles. I told the breeder that I am a 90% Duck guy and he was just fine with that. Can't wait. Pics for sure in a month.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby OmegaRed » Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:26 am

loner wrote:congrats, now it's time to start studying up on training!
just remember gotta have pics!


HAHA I'm on my 4th book. Gonna start buying up some DVD programs here soon
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby HUNT24/7 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:45 pm

Jesse Jaymes wrote:Very cool to hear of another DD guy Omega. There are not many, and fewwer in the Waterfowl circles. I told the breeder that I am a 90% Duck guy and he was just fine with that. Can't wait. Pics for sure in a month.


I'm soon to be a DD guy, pup is due to touch down May 21! Also a major waterfowl nut!!!
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby gonehuntin' » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:50 pm

Yup. Another one here.

Image
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:50 pm

Can I ask you two why you chose a DD? I know it's the major pissing match here but for strictly waterfowl, it's tough to beat a Chessie. Why a DD for you?

I wanted more of an Athlete. I've had two Chessies prior. Both had health issues. Breeder fault not breed fault. But I got active into Archery and have many friends that shoot deer poorly and lose them after. I aim to increase the recovery percentages. Plus there many new upland opportunities now that I've relocated to the N.E. corner of Washington. Tons of wild grouse of two or three types here also. Overall hoping for a more All Around companion with more athleticism and tracking ability. Who knows, maybe shed hunting too.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby copterdoc » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:24 pm

Jesse Jaymes wrote:...But I got active into Archery and have many friends that shoot deer poorly and lose them after. I aim to increase the recovery percentages.....

I love the idea of a blood tracking dog, but as an avid bowhunter, I say that's not a problem that is solved with a dog.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:59 pm

And I'd say you are 100% correct. I shoot competition pretty heavy. Some spots/Vegas and 3D spring summer and fall. So do many of the guys I run with. But these guys still make a ton of schitty shots. Or know guys who do. Or someone has a brother in law that just poked a bear and can't find it.

I have not loosed an arrow at big game in a long time. I should not cast stones. Hope I am not a hypocrite down the road.
Regardless. I am hijacking their thread. Cheers to all upcoming Draht pups.

I am interested in what you all are planning for your dogs(other than Waterfowl obviously) and where you hunt though.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby OmegaRed » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:34 am

I was originally entertaining the thought of getting a GSP. We hunt pretty much everything (upland, waterfowl, white tails, turkey etc.) My buddy has one, and we were planning on staggering dogs so we always have at least 1 that's in shape, trained and in the middle aged years of it's life. I read a bunch on pointing labs, but from everywhere I read it was hit and miss whether they point or not. There are essentially no wild upland birds around me, most are state released or what we raise ourselves. We have the property and habitat to do so with no interruptions from yahoo's shooting birds off your dogs (and yes it's happened. That's when the dogs get leashed and put back in the truck for everyone's safety).

Moreover, we are in the very tip of a flyway (NE Ohio) which I wouldn't even consider but it's listed on the flyway map. We shoot a good amount of birds for ppl around here, but you're never gonna see a tornado of mallards. I hunt divers on Erie, but usually that's no place for a dog that time of the year. I wanted a pointer, and with a lab I always wanted a bit more style - no offense lab ppl. Those things, combined with a few other cool things that the breed program promotes like blood tracking, helped me decide. It took a while to decipher the GWP/DD BS, but after you fully understand it, to me it was a no brainer to pick a DD. Not saying there aren't lots of good GWP's, but if you were picking between two identical cars from different companies, and one had a documented safety program, information on how the car was made, warranty etc. and the other one was just a car and a set of keys, all for the same price, which would you pick? The VDD is about as good as I've seen to hedge the bets that you'll get a well bred dog, clear of defects with a quantitative representation of all their lineage's performance and consistency in the breeders past breeding's. It shows me that you are getting an animal with high potential to be successful provided proper training.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby gonehuntin' » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:54 am

Jesse Jaymes wrote:Can I ask you two why you chose a DD? I know it's the major pissing match here but for strictly waterfowl, it's tough to beat a Chessie. Why a DD for you?


With me, it was because waterfowl are NOT the primary birds I hunt. Day in and day out, I'm an upland hunter but do a little waterfowl on the side. In the last 20 years I've also gotten to really enjoy pointing dogs. I love walking in on the point and seeing those intense, quivering points.

If I were just a waterfowl hunter, I'd own a Lab. The DD does everything well, but not great. It is, in my opinion, the best all around dog in the country. Their personalities are something special that you won't understand until you own one. They need a vest for cold weather water work.

Having owned one for 8 years now, it is the only breed I'll own from now on.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby HUNT24/7 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:39 pm

I chose a DD because of my current lab Cooper that is now retired. He has never had a strong desire to fetch, he never chased a ball, frisbee, stick or anything else I would throw for him really, maybe a couple times & thats it, but he had an insane prey drive or desire to make contact with game & that's what made him an incredible retriever/hunter.
There was no such thing as a lost bird with him, he was nose driven & a wounded bird was as good as caught every time. He was force fetched & would 3 hand cast, he was the perfect combination of dependent & independent.
When hunting I just need to get the dog in the area the bird went down & he can do the rest. From what I've been told, the DD has an intense prey drive with decent retrieve desire much like Cooper. It will probably take longer, but I hope I can harness that intensity & make him a great hunter/retriever!

Plus, I do some upland hunting & have hunted over a few pointers, always enjoyed it. He will also be trained for blood tracking as well.
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby FFT » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:28 pm

DD guy as well. We just scored a 70 at vjp and he managed an 11 in cooperation. I personally chose the breed after hunting over my pups father in a flooded timber. I had never seen a dog work that hard in my life. Good luck, and be ready to answer the question "what kinda dog is that".

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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:00 pm

A Jersey guy that hunts?? With a Draht to boot too?

Saw my pup last week. Really excited now. Just a few more weeks at most
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby OmegaRed » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:38 am

FFT wrote:DD guy as well. We just scored a 70 at vjp and he managed an 11 in cooperation. I personally chose the breed after hunting over my pups father in a flooded timber. I had never seen a dog work that hard in my life. Good luck, and be ready to answer the question "what kinda dog is that".

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Sweet good job!!
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby FFT » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:41 am

Jesse Jaymes wrote:A Jersey guy that hunts?? With a Draht to boot too?

Saw my pup last week. Really excited now. Just a few more weeks at most

We harvested 5th highest in our club with 80 pheasants. The lil sucker also did 7 blinds in the same timber i hunted with his father, my guy was 7 months old at that time. My hunting partner went to hike into the swamp to retrieve his birds and i told him to wait til i cut the pup loose. His response was "no way will he find them" ten minutes later he had retrieved all 7 birds. He prob made a dozen or so water retrieves by the end of the season, as we lost a good deal of time fvcking around after the super storm.
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[quote="OmegaRed]Sweet good job!![/quote]
Thanks, Red!
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby dwhipper61 » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:57 am

Another proud and happy DD owner here.....
Desiree Vom Schlussstein
VJP 77
HZP 169 with a 12 in duck search
ddducks.jpg
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:02 pm

To the non DD guys the numbers mean nothing....but holy schitt! You guys are around some great dogs! Great Job! Cool to see the Waterfowlers using them. Not the most popular but they are obviously getting it done Nice looking dogs too
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Re: DD breeding confirmed

Postby Jesse Jaymes » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:10 pm

Schwartzschimmels to boot!

I just got my hands on several DD type books and read the opening pages of all. The Draht Puppy Manual is very informative-although I'm only 20 pages in. Really helps clarify the German terms. I thought I had it all lined out but it firmed up many of my uncertain areas.

I grew up over on the East Coast. But live on West Coast now. I was under the impression the DDs were hands down more prevalent over here. Seems they are alive and well back there too. I know eastern PA has one very solid breeder. I can't keep all the kennel names in my head for my region let alone the whole US.

I just bought a home on some timbered a acreage. About 100 acres partially flooded pasture across my road. Loaded with pintails, mallards and shovelers this AM. Ankle deep with knee high covered. Can't wait to bring pup home and get him out there experiencing the smells and sounds of ducks!!!

I'm not even sure I've seen a 12 score.....
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