do i have a problem?

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do i have a problem?

Postby Pokmijn » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:35 am

Yesterday while me and my 7 month lab was out training I threw a 50 yard mark into light cover and sent her, she was having a little trouble so I let her work for a while then she stop and just looked at me waiting for direction. So I gave her a left back and she went right to it. Now why did she stop to ask for help when I never handled her on a marked before? We are working on three hand casting right now could that be the reason. I don't want her to start relying on me on marks.
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Raves24 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:09 pm

No....it sounds as if this was a one time thing.Unless you come to us next week, and tell us your dog has done this more then a few times I wouldn't worry about it. Sounds like it doing just fine on hand signal thou. :wink:
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby dogyak » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:45 pm

Pokmijn wrote:Yesterday while me and my 7 month lab was out training I threw a 50 yard mark into light cover and sent her, she was having a little trouble so I let her work for a while then she stop and just looked at me waiting for direction. So I gave her a left back and she went right to it. Now why did she stop to ask for help when I never handled her on a marked before? We are working on three hand casting right now could that be the reason. I don't want her to start relying on me on marks.

Hope that it was a one time thing . This is known as a pop . On marks you don't want to handle your dog , really want the pup to work it out . I bet since the pup did it once , more than likely it will at some point do it again . Could be wrong , but I've seen dogs get into this habit from owners who help their pup's out too much . Next time she does it if she does , say something like hunt it up or whatever term you use and turn your head down not making eye contact . Still try to watch her or him without letting them knowing . Most of the time the young dogs will work it out by establishing a hunt in the fall area and learning to use their nose . That's really what you want . Encourage the pup to hunt on it's own for the marks , you want it too get confidence on it's own ! :thumbsup:
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby labtrainer » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:04 pm

Sorry Raves, but I disagree. Here is why.

Pok, the fact that you are working on 3 handed casting is very likely the reason your dog "Popped" that is what your dogs action is called. It can become a very big problem. Unfortunately you did the worst thing you could have done in that situation!!!!!
If a dog "Pops" , the last thing you want to do is "handle" the dog to the "MARK",(you just re-enforced the dependence on you) rather, when a dog Pops you should just stand there and basically ignore the dog, don't speak, don't wave your arms, just stand there. Most dogs will learn that if you don't give direction then they must find it on their own and will re-engage in the "hunt". NEVER handle a dog on a Mark! If he refuses to re-engage after a period of time call him to you (or if he simply returns to you on his own) Speak to him in a rough angry voice letting him know you are displeased, make him SIT and then YOU go pick up the Mark yourself! Do NOT allow him to tag along, make him wait at the Sit position.
When you return, (disapline is over) re-position him and throw another Mark to a new fall area, make it an easier Mark to gain his confidence. Continue with Marking drills, increasing difficulty slowly over the next few training sessions.

Keep your 3 handed casting to separate training session and in a different area if possible, until he is good and solid with that.

Much later in your training program you will incorporate Marks and Blind Retrieves together during the same session, but not yet! Good Luck I hope this helps. :thumbsup:
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Raves24 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:18 pm

Lab-

Agreed now that I read your post...I also think you should use a verbal command such as "hunt it up" or "dead bird". I'm still new at this too, and haven't encountered the "pop" yet! :smile:
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby CatSquirrel » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:56 am

It's a single pop. No big deal at this point.
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:58 am

and that is the major difference I PERSONALLY see between a working/meat hunting dog and one being used where a judge will be involved. my dog and I are a team...when I need his help I ask for it ...when he needs mine I give it.
not judging just stating MY opinion.
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby gonehuntin' » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:44 am

Don't ask yourself why he popped, ask yourself why you caved in and helped him.
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Rick Hall » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:03 am

What Gone said. And I'm not anti-all popping, there are times when it's a good thing, just not often on marks the dog has plainly noted.
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:15 am

do you throw the marks in the same area that you are doing your 3 handed casting? If so, then the casting could have influenced your dog to pop, but I agree with Gonehuntin....
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Pokmijn » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:19 am

Thanks for all the insight I'll definitely won't handle her on mark when it happens again,but what If it's in a place where I can't pick it up myself?
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Pokmijn » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:39 am

Indaswamp wrote:do you throw the marks in the same area that you are doing your 3 handed casting? If so, then the casting could have influenced your dog to pop, but I agree with Gonehuntin....


The mark was not in the same place im teaching casting in. And as to why I chose to handled when she stops to look at me,I always read and hear to never let a pup fail but I just realized I just let her fail by not finding a mark she clearly marked. I still have a lot to learn.
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:55 am

Pokmijn wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:do you throw the marks in the same area that you are doing your 3 handed casting? If so, then the casting could have influenced your dog to pop, but I agree with Gonehuntin....


The mark was not in the same place im teaching casting in. And as to why I chose to handled when she stops to look at me,I always read and hear to never let a pup fail but I just realized I just let her fail by not finding a mark she clearly marked. I still have a lot to learn.

if you must assist the pup, it is much better to walk out and encourage a continued hunt. if the pup starts popping often, throw marks only to an area seeded with a lot of bumpers to help her find on fast. then scale down the number of seeded bumpers as her confidence grows, and you are back down to just the thrown bumper.
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:56 am

Pokmijn wrote:
The mark was not in the same place im teaching casting in. And as to why I chose to handled when she stops to look at me,I always read and hear to never let a pup fail but I just realized I just let her fail by not finding a mark she clearly marked. I still have a lot to learn.

That's a great attitude! :clapping:
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby Pokmijn » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:31 pm

Just an update she hasn't popped yet so hopefully it was a one time thing. But thanks again for all the advice
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Re: do i have a problem?

Postby O.D.Lid » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:38 am

:bow: Great advice from labtrainer pay attention! Made this mistake myself it is a hard one to correct,but do able! :yes:
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