Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:34 pm

corncob wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
jehler wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:but a new breed can not be made in 1 litter, which seems to be what you are claiming.

I Haven't read that anywhere swamp, a journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step. That said I haven't even seen assa infer that this guy in the ad is seeking to start a new breed. He's simply stating that the labs and chessies that are considered "pure" started their lineage in exactly the same fashion as this litter of mutts, a point the smuggles won't concede

John, if you are gonna start a new breed, you do not sell your first litter-you keep them as breed stock, and cull the ones that don't make the cut for what you are lookin for. You have to let the pups grow and develop to see what kind of potential they got. That is my only contention with Assa's line of reasoning.....

you keep the ones you want for BROOD stock and cull the rest(spay and neuter) is culling to people that cant sleep if they had to kill them.
Assa nor the guy who has been chastised in this thread said they were making new breed.
and us houndsmen we do a lot crosses for the purpose of hunting that 1st generation MUTT
i only bred if im needing some new pups or enough people have asked to get new pups. you uppity snobs would crap at the cost of good hounds!!!
Inda you feel its perfectly ok for your "friend" to cross breed but not the poor bastard that was made fun of in here. it makes no difference if the pups are sold or killed!!hypocrisy!!

It does make a difference if they are sold intact and not cut.

where are the laws stating when a breed is a breed???most my dogs are breeds but not AKC accepted. i am happy as hell about that too
most of you keep runniong off at the mouth about health. puredreed dogs have more toubles with health then cross breeds.i would never breed a dog that isint healhty. if my dogs started having two heads but there are an absoluty a beast of a hunting dog, its getting bred.
the 1st wavy haired brown gyp i deem worthy to stand under my lab i will buy in a heart beat and never hesitate once about breeding them
but im a country boy not a dog snob even thou my dogs are in demand with out internet only by word of mouth


Indaswamp wrote:The discussion on this thread is much like the abortion issue, when does It go from making mutts to starting a new breed?
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby dogyak » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:13 pm

I have no problem with someone having a mix dog from a oop's breeding or if some friends got together and share with a litter if that's what the wanted . I've had friends that had great dogs at the duck camp and said that . I've even got into it with copter doc on here about letting mix breeds run hunt test . Don't think it would hurt anything as long as they have been fixed . Really not a snob about it and don't look down on anyone that has a mix for the record . The problem is on this breeding was flat out trying to make fast cash from a one time breeding and not knowing what kind of defective genes get pass down . You and I know that some of the pups will not get fix and at some point will be bred back into the pure some where down the line and will be pass off as a lab or chess . Oh , even if both dogs have good OFA cert and such it would not matter , because this litter we would never know how their hips , elbows , eyes ,etc. would be . It would take more than one breeding as said and over years to know as said .
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Indaswamp » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:26 pm

You are taking this discussion way too personally my friend. You don't care about pure breeds, I get that. Others do, and with good reason.
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Jarbo03 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:01 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
Jarbo03 wrote:He never said anything comparing these"mutts" to anything, just that new breeds are started by cross breeding. The biggest issue was that so called adults were so worried about what another person is doing with his own dog. Enough to start a thread about it putting this person down. Thats the general BS attitude that keeps many, including myself, from participating mire often in the dog forum.

And I have pointed out repeatedly that the guy that bred the litter is not starting a new breed, He has a liter of mutts. So the point is moot IMO. Were he starting a new breed, you and Assa would have a valid argument.



No one ever said he was starting a new breed, just that cross breeding is how new breeds are started. My personal opinion is that whatever you hunt, there is already a breed designed for you. I appreciate everything that was necessary for Taz dam and sire to be allowed to breed. The issue I feel was the fact that others cared enough to talk down about another person. This thread was started for the purpose of group bashing.
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Labs » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:31 am

jehler wrote:Explain to me why if I wanted to breed a lab and a chessie together it's anyone's business but mine?


Here, I will put it in simple English for you. Its my business to curb as many of these mutt breedings as possible, as MY tax dollars go to funding the gall damn animal shelters that these dogs will end up in. PETA and the SPCA already don't like the fact that people are breeding dogs for hunting and breeding mutts doesn't help the hunting community image....this is a bigger issue that one guy breeding a chessie and a lab. And lest face it...if they guy was doing this to make some good hunting dogs for his buddy's (or any other schlep that he could convince to buy one), as a responsible breeder, he would ensure each and every one of puppies would not be allowed to breed...
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:13 am

Labs wrote:
jehler wrote:Explain to me why if I wanted to breed a lab and a chessie together it's anyone's business but mine?


Here, I will put it in simple English for you. Its my business to curb as many of these mutt breedings as possible, as MY tax dollars go to funding the gall damn animal shelters that these dogs will end up in. PETA and the SPCA already don't like the fact that people are breeding dogs for hunting and breeding mutts doesn't help the hunting community image....this is a bigger issue that one guy breeding a chessie and a lab. And lest face it...if they guy was doing this to make some good hunting dogs for his buddy's (or any other schlep that he could convince to buy one), as a responsible breeder, he would ensure each and every one of puppies would not be allowed to breed...



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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:39 am

Indaswamp wrote:
assateague wrote:Yes, it is the point. It has repeatedly been stated that, regardless of the program, there is no "need" for another retriever breed.

I did not take it that way, and the OP is NOT about creating another breed, it's about 1 breeding that is a cross between two breeds. Big difference.
Were he intent on creating another breed, he would not be selling the first pups from the cross. that is not how it is done. A new breed strives to fill a niche of necessary qualities desired in a dog, then only sells dogs that fits that standard. This simply can not be done with one litter of pups. period. It is done through many generations of breeding selection.



Here, Inda. This is precisely what I was arguing about. NOT this breeding, but the concept in general.

And Dawnsearlylight, you claim to care about the breed, yet you charge someone $4 to answer a question. Seems to me like, with that particular attitude, it's tough to pull off the "I just love dogs" attitude.


Labs wrote:There really isn't a logical argument for a "chessador" breeding


Takem_Brewer wrote:Your argument is completely out of place when saying every dog started as a cross breeding.


Takem_Brewer wrote:Now with a mutt these days, there is absolutely NO REASON why anyone should breed a chesador on purpose. There are 5 different kinds of retrievers


Dawnsearlylight wrote:and yes, I will make that judgment, because I love dogs in general


Takem_Brewer wrote:Again, there are 5 different retriever breeds. Look them up and I'm sure you will find the perfect retriever for yourself.


Takem_Brewer wrote:This day and age there is no reason to cross breed.


Dawnsearlylight wrote:And finally, I don't care what kind of clearances this guy had on the dogs


Dogyak wrote:Don't understand why these guys think this is such a good thing .
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:42 am

assateague wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
assateague wrote:Yes, it is the point. It has repeatedly been stated that, regardless of the program, there is no "need" for another retriever breed.

I did not take it that way, and the OP is NOT about creating another breed, it's about 1 breeding that is a cross between two breeds. Big difference.
Were he intent on creating another breed, he would not be selling the first pups from the cross. that is not how it is done. A new breed strives to fill a niche of necessary qualities desired in a dog, then only sells dogs that fits that standard. This simply can not be done with one litter of pups. period. It is done through many generations of breeding selection.



Here, Inda. This is precisely what I was arguing about. NOT this breeding, but the concept in general.

And Dawnsearlylight, you claim to care about the breed, yet you charge someone $4 to answer a question. Seems to me like, with that particular attitude, it's tough to pull off the "I just love dogs" attitude.


Labs wrote:There really isn't a logical argument for a "chessador" breeding


Takem_Brewer wrote:Your argument is completely out of place when saying every dog started as a cross breeding.


Takem_Brewer wrote:Now with a mutt these days, there is absolutely NO REASON why anyone should breed a chesador on purpose. There are 5 different kinds of retrievers


Dawnsearlylight wrote:and yes, I will make that judgment, because I love dogs in general


Takem_Brewer wrote:Again, there are 5 different retriever breeds. Look them up and I'm sure you will find the perfect retriever for yourself.


Takem_Brewer wrote:This day and age there is no reason to cross breed.


Dawnsearlylight wrote:And finally, I don't care what kind of clearances this guy had on the dogs


Dogyak wrote:Don't understand why these guys think this is such a good thing .

Than you and I are on the same page with regard to creating a new breed then. But IMO, that is not what happened with the litter in question.
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby jehler » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:02 am

Labs wrote:
jehler wrote:Explain to me why if I wanted to breed a lab and a chessie together it's anyone's business but mine?


Here, I will put it in simple English for you. Its my business to curb as many of these mutt breedings as possible, as MY tax dollars go to funding the gall damn animal shelters that these dogs will end up in. PETA and the SPCA already don't like the fact that people are breeding dogs for hunting and breeding mutts doesn't help the hunting community image....this is a bigger issue that one guy breeding a chessie and a lab. And lest face it...if they guy was doing this to make some good hunting dogs for his buddy's (or any other schlep that he could convince to buy one), as a responsible breeder, he would ensure each and every one of puppies would not be allowed to breed...

Laughable.
A lab bred with a chessie is no more likely to end up in a shelter then any other dog regardless of breed.

Your solution to not liking where your tax dollars go is to step on someone else's personal liberties. This kind of logic is why we are having this discussion, it's flawed
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:09 am

Indaswamp wrote:Than you and I are on the same page with regard to creating a new breed then. But IMO, that is not what happened with the litter in question.



Make no mistake- I've always thought exactly the same as you regarding that. My problem has always been with the premise that "what we have now is plenty, and anyone who tries to make a new one is an asshat who only creates mutts."
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Indaswamp » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:26 am

assateague wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:Than you and I are on the same page with regard to creating a new breed then. But IMO, that is not what happened with the litter in question.



Make no mistake- I've always thought exactly the same as you regarding that. My problem has always been with the premise that "what we have now is plenty, and anyone who tries to make a new one is an asshat who only creates mutts."

More often than not Assa, that is exactly what happens.....
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Gunnysway » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:27 am

And now we're back to the begining... Alot of good energy in this thread.... very circular in its entirety. reminds me of a movie..

"Harness in the good energy, block out the bad. Harness. Energy. Block. Bad. It's like a carousel. You put the quarter in, you get on the horse, it goes up and down, and around. Circular, circle. Feel it. Go with the flow."
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby OmegaRed » Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:40 am

Gunnysway wrote:And now we're back to the begining... Alot of good energy in this thread.... very circular in its entirety. reminds me of a movie..

"Harness in the good energy, block out the bad. Harness. Energy. Block. Bad. It's like a carousel. You put the quarter in, you get on the horse, it goes up and down, and around. Circular, circle. Feel it. Go with the flow."


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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby dogyak » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:51 am

so a breeding of lab/chess would compromise their integrity , SHOCKING ! A fool and his money are quickly parted , the fact that people make idiotic financial decisions without doing research explains how breeders and bad professional trainers stay in business .
I have found that to most people , a pup is a pup . They don't know , and really don't care about how is improve your chances to get a good one . I have tried on a few occaisions to help people , but a 500 cute puppy from an breeder who "hasn't ever had a problem with any puppies" is more attractive than a 800 pup with parents who are healthy , trainable , and had clearances .
Had a guy that I worked with who wanted me to help find a well bred lab , then goes and buy one out of the paper for 350 with AKC papers . A little before the dog turns 2 , both hips are shot and the vet said both hips need to be done . He comes to me crying about what to do and such , looked at him and said why should I , you didn't listen before buying this dog . :huh:
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby assateague » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:27 pm

dogyak wrote:so a breeding of lab/chess would compromise their integrity , SHOCKING !



Would compromise the integrity of what?
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Jarbo03 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:33 am

corncob wrote:
dogyak wrote:so a breeding of lab/chess would compromise their integrity , SHOCKING ! A fool and his money are quickly parted , the fact that people make idiotic financial decisions without doing research explains how breeders and bad professional trainers stay in business .
I have found that to most people , a pup is a pup . They don't know , and really don't care about how is improve your chances to get a good one . I have tried on a few occaisions to help people , but a 500 cute puppy from an breeder who "hasn't ever had a problem with any puppies" is more attractive than a 800 pup with parents who are healthy , trainable , and had clearances .
Had a guy that I worked with who wanted me to help find a well bred lab , then goes and buy one out of the paper for 350 with AKC papers . A little before the dog turns 2 , both hips are shot and the vet said both hips need to be done . He comes to me crying about what to do and such , looked at him and said why should I , you didn't listen before buying this dog . :huh:

800 gets you a down payment on one of my mutts


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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby ohio mike » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:12 am

Indaswamp wrote:waterdog races?


It's a spin off of the now defunct Kenton Coon Chase,a rough & rowdy event of another time. Google maxsfleamarketandwaterdograces.com. I'll bet Rick remembers Kenton.

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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:23 am

Much better stinted than planted, glad your back. Have seen both water race and treeing events but was so long ago, I couldn't say if it was in Kenton.
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Rise and Shine Retrievers » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:22 am

Had a guy that I worked with who wanted me to help find a well bred lab , then goes and buy one out of the paper for 350 with AKC papers . A little before the dog turns 2 , both hips are shot and the vet said both hips need to be done


I can tell you a hundred other stories just like this. I heard another story just this week. Makes me sick.
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:47 am

So what's your solution to it?
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby assateague » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:27 pm

:lol:
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Duck_Popper » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:00 am

I can't believe this is still going hahaha
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby Rick Hall » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:13 am

Don't worry, it's been dead for some time. What you see are just twitching nerves.
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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby jehler » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:40 am

Rise and Shine Retrievers wrote:
Had a guy that I worked with who wanted me to help find a well bred lab , then goes and buy one out of the paper for 350 with AKC papers . A little before the dog turns 2 , both hips are shot and the vet said both hips need to be done


I can tell you a hundred other stories just like this. I heard another story just this week. Makes me sick.

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Re: Chesador's listed for sale on classifieds today

Postby assateague » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:01 am

Rick Hall wrote:Don't worry, it's been dead for some time. What you see are just twitching nerves.



Mine's more an "exposed nerve". To be told that I don't make sense, and that someone "just loves dogs more" irritates me. Particularly when said "knowledgeable" person loves and cares about dogs so much that they won't answer questions unless you pay her for her answers. Yeah, ok.
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