Help with doubles

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Help with doubles

Postby MaineHunter » Tue Aug 20, 2013 2:33 am

I am having a little trouble getting my boy "Moose" (chocolate lab, year and a half old, labman63 litter) to stay focused on double retrieves while training. At heel, I will throw out the first dummy and then the second a given time after the first. He marks the first, and then the second, and retrieves the second with no issue and brings it back. When I line him up and send him out for the first dummy I threw out, it's like he forgot it is out there for a moment or two and just turns around and looks at me and then will finally turn around a bit confused and go find the first dummy.. Can anyone help shed some light on how to get him to stay focused? Hopefully this all makes sense.
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:25 am

Try running both marks as Singles first, instead of tossing both marks at the same time.
Run your Singles with separation-90deg. apart. REPS.
Once you've run them as Singles with success-

Get yourself the same separation between marks, and toss them together- one long, one short. (You want an open area , low cover, and both marks visible to the dog).
SEND pup to the last mark thrown, (make go- bird the shortest for now).
Encourage pup to move with you on the line when you move, (turn), to each mark.
REPS.
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby i_willie12 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:44 am

Make sure you are in short yard grass!!! And us big 3" white bumpers, ones they can see...
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby Labs » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:44 am

Has he seen single marks thrown by someone out in the field...someone other than you?

Secondly, when you are teaching, take him to a field with mowed grass...and use white bumpers, so he can see them from the point of origin....make sure the marks are thrown such that there is more than 90 degees of separation...once he has repeated success, then move to using orange bumpers. After this, add more cover, so the bumpers are hidden from his view...


Well, hell, I guess I should have read Swamps reply and Willie was replying as I typed this....=)

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Re: Help with doubles

Postby swampbilly 1980 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:07 am

Labs wrote:Well, hell, I guess I should have read Swamps reply and Willie was replying as I typed this....=)
Labs

You were just trying to make a bigger splash than Willie and I, we know that's what you were doin' :lol3:
:devil:
:beer:
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby Labs » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:11 am

swampbilly 1980 wrote:
Labs wrote:Well, hell, I guess I should have read Swamps reply and Willie was replying as I typed this....=)
Labs

You were just trying to make a bigger splash than Willie and I, we know that's what you were doin' :lol3:
:devil:
:beer:


Well, I guess the OP now knows what to do...three replies stating the same thing....gotta love it... :beer:
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby i_willie12 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:25 am

Labs wrote:
swampbilly 1980 wrote:
Labs wrote:Well, hell, I guess I should have read Swamps reply and Willie was replying as I typed this....=)
Labs

You were just trying to make a bigger splash than Willie and I, we know that's what you were doin' :lol3:
:devil:
:beer:


Well, I guess the OP now knows what to do...three replies stating the same thing....gotta love it... :beer:


ha yeah i'd say thats a good starting point.. :lol3:
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby dogyak » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:40 am

Outstanding advise from all :thumbsup:
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby MaineHunter » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:15 am

Thanks for the help guys, he is showing progress after only a couple days of training!
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby Mar10nz » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:35 pm

Try this, throw your dummies a much shorter distance in a location where the vegetation is much shorter. Actually to the point of beginner work. Do not delay in sending the dog to the fetch as directed. So you have basically decreased you distance between dummies, insured that the dummies were easy to see and shortened the sit stay time before the retrieve. Don't increase anything until the dog is sound at these tasks. At first I kept all of my double exercises to 3-4 reps per day. Good Luck!
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby dogyak » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:18 pm

Don't throw any more bumpers while doing more than singles . What you want too do is increase his sight memory . This is pretty easy to do . Sit your dog at a fixed point watching you or a helper walks out to place the bumpers . The bumpers are not thrown as marks , just toss out as a reference point as the dog watches at a distance . Normally , you should place the bumper to begin these retrievers along a fence or other straightedge to assist your dog in holding a straight line . At first I used the side of the house , would sit in the middle and walk 4 or 5 steps and toss it down as she watch , then walk back pass her on a 180 degree turn walking a little farther and toss the other to the ground as she watch . Sent on the last one as the go bird , then turn the other way where she had sight on the other and sent her . It's a fun game to them while really helping with their memory . Advance to where your standing with her and throw the first one at a short distance then turn the 180 and throw that mark farther , that last mark is the go bird . when she returns the bumper to hand ,turn to face 180 and send her on her way . She will pick it up really fast . Then find you a baseball field , you can set up multiple retrieves along fences running at different angles in the same manner . That's how I taught all my dogs and allow me to transition to the field pretty easy , good luck .
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby RNT_MAN » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:41 am

All great advice above. Another tip I can add includes the use of birds. If I have a dog struggling to remember or grasp the concept of a memory bird I will use a real bird as the memory bird. Very few dogs will forget the presence of a real bird and usually getting the go bird becomes a drag race to get the chance to get some feathers in their mouths. To prevent the dog from wanting to switch I start with a short go bird and a fairly quick release for the first few times. Hopefully this with the advice offered above helps your pup out. :beer:
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby QuackHead89 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:53 pm

Heel her at your side. Toss out a bumper straight in front of you, this will be your memory bird. Give her two or three seconds to stare at that bumper. Turn 180 degrees. Throw another bumper, this is your go bird, send her to retrieve almost immediately as long as she is steady. Heel her at your side and turn to face the memory bird. Give her a second or two to see it and remember it. Now turn 90 degrees and throw another mark, once again your go bird, and send her immediately if steady. When she returns, heel her at your side and face the memory bird again. Let her look at it for a few seconds, now turn ninety degrees the other way and throw another go bird. After about three or four go birds, heel her so that she is looking at the memory bird again and send her. Start this in low cover and at fairly short distances of ten yards or so.
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby SoupSandwich99 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:04 pm

Labs wrote:Has he seen single marks thrown by someone out in the field...someone other than you?

Secondly, when you are teaching, take him to a field with mowed grass...and use white bumpers, so he can see them from the point of origin....make sure the marks are thrown such that there is more than 90 degees of separation...once he has repeated success, then move to using orange bumpers. After this, add more cover, so the bumpers are hidden from his view...


Well, hell, I guess I should have read Swamps reply and Willie was replying as I typed this....=)

Labs


Why would you throw orange bumpers as marks, unless they are very short marks? It is my understanding that they can't see the orange color to mark it from any real distance. Hence the use of orange bumpers on blinds, or so I have been told.
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby labman63 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:45 pm

Do this!!!!!! This is an easy and excellant drill in building memory. After a few times I will leave the "go bird" bumper in their mouth while they sit and stare at the "memory bird" before heeling away and when sending for the memory bird. This will transfer over to real marks and learning doubles in the field. Bird in mouth drill.

You must have the Building A Retriever, Drills And More book.


QuackHead89 wrote:Heel her at your side. Toss out a bumper straight in front of you, this will be your memory bird. Give her two or three seconds to stare at that bumper. Turn 180 degrees. Throw another bumper, this is your go bird, send her to retrieve almost immediately as long as she is steady. Heel her at your side and turn to face the memory bird. Give her a second or two to see it and remember it. Now turn 90 degrees and throw another mark, once again your go bird, and send her immediately if steady. When she returns, heel her at your side and face the memory bird again. Let her look at it for a few seconds, now turn ninety degrees the other way and throw another go bird. After about three or four go birds, heel her so that she is looking at the memory bird again and send her. Start this in low cover and at fairly short distances of ten yards or so.
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Re: Help with doubles

Postby Labs » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:49 am

SoupSandwich99 wrote:
Labs wrote:Has he seen single marks thrown by someone out in the field...someone other than you?

Secondly, when you are teaching, take him to a field with mowed grass...and use white bumpers, so he can see them from the point of origin....make sure the marks are thrown such that there is more than 90 degees of separation...once he has repeated success, then move to using orange bumpers. After this, add more cover, so the bumpers are hidden from his view...


Well, hell, I guess I should have read Swamps reply and Willie was replying as I typed this....=)

Labs


Why would you throw orange bumpers as marks, unless they are very short marks? It is my understanding that they can't see the orange color to mark it from any real distance. Hence the use of orange bumpers on blinds, or so I have been told.


I have bolded what I wrote, so you can digest what I wrote....you start with white to teach...then move to orange in short grass to increase the difficulty...trust me, dogs can mark orange at hunt test distances....and in this case, for teaching, your distances aren't really going to be at hunt test distances...
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