Charcoal labs!

Share hunting dog tips, hunting dog training questions or links of interest here.

Moderators: HNTFSH, hunt-chessies, swampbilly 1980, captainkevan

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby copterdoc » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:33 pm

sharris wrote:
copterdoc wrote:Color dilution alopecia, doesn't care whether it's diluting brown, black or yellow.

Two recessives in the d locus, is two recessives in the d locus.


Not technically color dilution alopecia since "alopecia" is hair loss. Just color dilution.
Color Dilution Alopecia, is the "skin disorder" affecting "silver" labs, that was brought up in the OP.

It doesn't matter what color it is, that is being diluted.
Color Dilution Alopecia doesn't care whether it's a silver or a charcoal. They are both dilute.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 5806
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm


Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Chaws » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:15 pm

Catdaddy89 wrote:Well then why is a "red" which is only bred for color still a good dog but a charcoal a piece is chit? I'm not following y'all. You keep saying that they are junk and not labs but no one has told me a background or a breed cross. Why is there such a devout hate for the charcoal? I would also like to re-iterate I do not want a silver I want a charcoal. Is there a difference in the two? I hate to seem ungrateful forthe info you have given me but no one has really hit my question.


Obtaining the darkest of the yellow color range has been somewhat bred for but there are some black parents that carry the yellow gene that will tend to produce darker yellow offspring. I know of a couple FC dogs for example that tend to deliver offspring of the darker yellow and sometimes referred to as "Red" by breeders looking to market them to uninformed buyers.

Charcoal or Silver, both are born from parents carrying the extremely recessive dilute color gene. There isn't definite proof of their lineage containing a different breed though, however there is a tendency where people believe there's a weim in the mx a ways back due to eye color, common ear size, and just the nature of their build being shorter hair and longer legs than the AKC standard of a labrador.

The reason for the backlash of users here to the designer colors is because of many that have already been named, you have failed to read them. I posted numerous reasons why they're typically not desirable or encouraged to be purchased if you're looking for a working dog or even for anyone for that matter. Due to the extreme low probability of a dog to carry these very very recessive dilute color genetics, an exceptional amount of inbreeding and selective breeding only for that color takes place. When a gene pool is so small, often times breeders overlook the primary reasons for selective breeding practices. Those practices should include health of eyes, hips, elbows, EIC, CNM and PRA. Those practices should also include pairing dogs with the most desirable traits of marking, confirmation to the breed standard (size, build, coat, tail), mouth, biddability (training capability to learn quickly without excessive pressure or time), water attitude and temperament.

In order to provide a complete litter of all offspring displaying the dilute color genes visually and with these dilute dogs being of such a small small gene pool, the breeders aren't able to be selective enough when pairing sire and dam for a breeding. It's nearly impossible for them to cover their bases on everything I mentioned in the last paragraph all while still being able to produce multiple litters of these designer colors.

There's a direct correlation to why you see so many more extremely good black labs than other colors. Their gene pool is massive due to its dominant color genetics so there are very large lists of some of the best dogs to breed to. It's getting substantially better, however offspring of the chocolate color were originally culled from original breeding lines hundreds of years ago because of its very recessive nature. Views changed and more chocolates were available and then people started breeding just for the chocolate color in the same way these current dilute color labs are being bred. Many years later, you might see a couple chocolates capable of competing with the best dogs in the country each year at the National Field Trial. They're starting to be bred better but there are still a lot of breeders just going for the color today.
Are you concerned about the future of hunting and access to land? Let your voice be heard. Visit http://.
Chaws
hunter
 
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:31 pm
Location: Fargo, ND

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby WTN10 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:40 pm

TCFarmer wrote:Says one of the guys who only contribute on this forum to tell everyone how awful the forum is.


You're right. This place is renowned for its solid advice and not for **** measuring by dweebs.
2014 Season Totals:
Mallards: 243
Redheads: 114
Woodducks: 119
Grebes: 36
Blue Geese: 134
Snow Geese: 178
Hawks: 4
User avatar
WTN10
hunter
 
Posts: 14016
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:02 pm
Location: Western Tunisia

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Indaswamp » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:27 am

Chaws wrote:The Fox Red color, if bought from a breeder the hyped up the color, then they are commonly bred for their color, however they have a genetic color makup as any other yellow lab unlike the Charcoal, silver, etc dogs. The Charcoals and Silvers have a different genetic color gene which is an extreme level of recessive with the dilute values in addition to chocolate. Yellow in genetics are identical whether the dog looks almost white and all the way to a fox red color, they're still yellow. Some dogs, even a few blacks that I'm aware of in the field trial games, just tend to throw darker yellow offspring.

My old yellow dog is on the dark side....his sister was a white. weird how that works out....
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Image
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 56102
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Indaswamp » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:34 am

Chaws wrote:
Catdaddy89 wrote:Well then why is a "red" which is only bred for color still a good dog but a charcoal a piece is chit? I'm not following y'all. You keep saying that they are junk and not labs but no one has told me a background or a breed cross. Why is there such a devout hate for the charcoal? I would also like to re-iterate I do not want a silver I want a charcoal. Is there a difference in the two? I hate to seem ungrateful forthe info you have given me but no one has really hit my question.


Obtaining the darkest of the yellow color range has been somewhat bred for but there are some black parents that carry the yellow gene that will tend to produce darker yellow offspring. I know of a couple FC dogs for example that tend to deliver offspring of the darker yellow and sometimes referred to as "Red" by breeders looking to market them to uninformed buyers.

Charcoal or Silver, both are born from parents carrying the extremely recessive dilute color gene. There isn't definite proof of their lineage containing a different breed though, however there is a tendency where people believe there's a weim in the mx a ways back due to eye color, common ear size, and just the nature of their build being shorter hair and longer legs than the AKC standard of a labrador.

The reason for the backlash of users here to the designer colors is because of many that have already been named, you have failed to read them. I posted numerous reasons why they're typically not desirable or encouraged to be purchased if you're looking for a working dog or even for anyone for that matter. Due to the extreme low probability of a dog to carry these very very recessive dilute color genetics, an exceptional amount of inbreeding and selective breeding only for that color takes place. When a gene pool is so small, often times breeders overlook the primary reasons for selective breeding practices. Those practices should include health of eyes, hips, elbows, EIC, CNM and PRA. Those practices should also include pairing dogs with the most desirable traits of marking, confirmation to the breed standard (size, build, coat, tail), mouth, biddability (training capability to learn quickly without excessive pressure or time), water attitude and temperament.

In order to provide a complete litter of all offspring displaying the dilute color genes visually and with these dilute dogs being of such a small small gene pool, the breeders aren't able to be selective enough when pairing sire and dam for a breeding. It's nearly impossible for them to cover their bases on everything I mentioned in the last paragraph all while still being able to produce multiple litters of these designer colors.

There's a direct correlation to why you see so many more extremely good black labs than other colors. Their gene pool is massive due to its dominant color genetics so there are very large lists of some of the best dogs to breed to. It's getting substantially better, however offspring of the chocolate color were originally culled from original breeding lines hundreds of years ago because of its very recessive nature. Views changed and more chocolates were available and then people started breeding just for the chocolate color in the same way these current dilute color labs are being bred. Many years later, you might see a couple chocolates capable of competing with the best dogs in the country each year at the National Field Trial. They're starting to be bred better but there are still a lot of breeders just going for the color today.

Good post chaws...Lots of great information! :thumbsup:
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Image
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 56102
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Dakota Creek » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:07 am

Chaws wrote:
Obtaining the darkest of the yellow color range has been somewhat bred for but there are some black parents that carry the yellow gene that will tend to produce darker yellow offspring. I know of a couple FC dogs for example that tend to deliver offspring of the darker yellow and sometimes referred to as "Red" by breeders looking to market them to uninformed buyers.

Charcoal or Silver, both are born from parents carrying the extremely recessive dilute color gene. There isn't definite proof of their lineage containing a different breed though, however there is a tendency where people believe there's a weim in the mx a ways back due to eye color, common ear size, and just the nature of their build being shorter hair and longer legs than the AKC standard of a labrador.

The reason for the backlash of users here to the designer colors is because of many that have already been named, you have failed to read them. I posted numerous reasons why they're typically not desirable or encouraged to be purchased if you're looking for a working dog or even for anyone for that matter. Due to the extreme low probability of a dog to carry these very very recessive dilute color genetics, an exceptional amount of inbreeding and selective breeding only for that color takes place. When a gene pool is so small, often times breeders overlook the primary reasons for selective breeding practices. Those practices should include health of eyes, hips, elbows, EIC, CNM and PRA. Those practices should also include pairing dogs with the most desirable traits of marking, confirmation to the breed standard (size, build, coat, tail), mouth, biddability (training capability to learn quickly without excessive pressure or time), water attitude and temperament.

In order to provide a complete litter of all offspring displaying the dilute color genes visually and with these dilute dogs being of such a small small gene pool, the breeders aren't able to be selective enough when pairing sire and dam for a breeding. It's nearly impossible for them to cover their bases on everything I mentioned in the last paragraph all while still being able to produce multiple litters of these designer colors.

There's a direct correlation to why you see so many more extremely good black labs than other colors. Their gene pool is massive due to its dominant color genetics so there are very large lists of some of the best dogs to breed to. It's getting substantially better, however offspring of the chocolate color were originally culled from original breeding lines hundreds of years ago because of its very recessive nature. Views changed and more chocolates were available and then people started breeding just for the chocolate color in the same way these current dilute color labs are being bred. Many years later, you might see a couple chocolates capable of competing with the best dogs in the country each year at the National Field Trial. They're starting to be bred better but there are still a lot of breeders just going for the color today.


Well said X's 2!
GMHR-III Dakota Creek's Royal Navigator MH
MHR Pine Acre's Dakota Sand Creek SH WCI
Dakota Creek's Royal Gem
Dakota Creek's Long Shot
Dakota Creek's Wreaking Havoc
Drake's Bay Super Duty (2004 - 2013)
Dakota Creek
hunter
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:39 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Catdaddy89 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:53 am

I appreciate your elaborate description and it was exactly what I needed. I understand what is taking place now. I have a friend who sells a litter when he get one and said that he sometimes throws a off color like charcoal or silver. Would this situation be any different than the above listed. Would the possibility of the dog hunting be greater? His dogs aren't anything to brag about but a few guys at work have gotten them and said they were plenty good enough to them. I guess I'm asking if it would be better to find and accidental char instead of going to a breeder. I'm sorry to keep insisting on the color but my wife will likely die if she doesn't get one for Christmas and I don't want to have to feed two dogs. I would much rather have one we can both enjoy.
User avatar
Catdaddy89
hunter
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:11 am
Location: Thornton, TX / RRC TX

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Griffdom » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:21 am

I personally would think getting one from a guy that doesn't breed generation after generation seeking color may allow you to have a better chance. However, the fact is if you see the parents work and you really like what you see then you will likely like the pup you get (as long as you get lucky and dodge the health issues that could crop up that the parents were not tested for). The problem is I fear that you might not know what it is your after? How serious are you about hunting? What do you hunt most? How many days per year do you hunt? My thoughts are that your wife will fall in love with whatever pup you bring home despite color. But, if you choose a pup because of color and it ends up a hunting dud or has major health issues then you may not have the option of punting (selling), because your wife has already fallen in love.
Griffdom
hunter
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:22 am

Postby Catdaddy89 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:29 am

I work 14 of 28 so I probably only hit half the season. I live in central Texas and hunt mostly north Texas with some central mixed in. It's mostly ponds with a few lake and river hunts mixed in. Its that reason I want a dog because more often than not I'm waiting on a bird to float back or I'm wading my spread flaring birds. I'm not ever going to a trial and it's not likely I'll send him to a trainer. I will do what I can on my own and go from there. I am not expecting to have a dog read hands or anything that professional I just don't want to have to go hunt with a pocket full of rocks to mark birds. He will be a pet that hunts....... at least that's what I have in mind anyway.
User avatar
Catdaddy89
hunter
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:11 am
Location: Thornton, TX / RRC TX

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby sharris » Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:48 am

copterdoc wrote:
sharris wrote:
copterdoc wrote:Color dilution alopecia, doesn't care whether it's diluting brown, black or yellow.

Two recessives in the d locus, is two recessives in the d locus.


Not technically color dilution alopecia since "alopecia" is hair loss. Just color dilution.
Color Dilution Alopecia, is the "skin disorder" affecting "silver" labs, that was brought up in the OP.

It doesn't matter what color it is, that is being diluted.
Color Dilution Alopecia doesn't care whether it's a silver or a charcoal. They are both dilute.


I probably should have read the OP better (I missed the "disease" part). My point was not all color dilute breeds have clinically noticeable color dilution alopecia (ie. the hair loss associated with melanin clumping and follicular dysplasia). One can get a color dilute breed and not have the alopecia associated with it. We don't know if the color dilute gene is directly responsible for initiating the skin disease or if a linked gene codes for the associated follicular change. Right now mutation(s) in MLPH are thought to be the cause of the dilution, but most work has focused on Dobermans instead of Labs so no one knows if it translates to that breed. The last silver lab I saw had major skeletal malformations (dens aplasia and other midline fusion defects) that resulted in its euthanasia and it had no clinical evidence of alopecia related to color dilution. However, who knows whether it would have developed alopecia eventually if it lived a lot longer.
User avatar
sharris
hunter
 
Posts: 943
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:23 am
Location: corn and cattle country

Re:

Postby i_willie12 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:03 am

Catdaddy89 wrote:I work 14 of 28 so I probably only hit half the season. I live in central Texas and hunt mostly north Texas with some central mixed in. It's mostly ponds with a few lake and river hunts mixed in. Its that reason I want a dog because more often than not I'm waiting on a bird to float back or I'm wading my spread flaring birds. I'm not ever going to a trial and it's not likely I'll send him to a trainer. I will do what I can on my own and go from there. I am not expecting to have a dog read hands or anything that professional I just don't want to have to go hunt with a pocket full of rocks to mark birds. He will be a pet that hunts....... at least that's what I have in mind anyway.



You have been given all the info possible on silver gray charcoal labs you need.... Its your choice! Dont you find it interesting the the silver lab guy got on here, dropped his name for silver labs, then ran away and never came back to say his dogs were good... They are true silver labs... :rolleyes: He knows he cant win that argument If you want one get one... But dont get on here a year from now and say hey this charcoal lab isnt any good... of i just got back from the vet and my dog has leg/shoulder issues... :no: :no: We wont want to here it! It might work out.. I more than likely wont! If you know you are wanting a hunting/family dog why not just get one that you know will more than likely be a good dog!!! One that is breed for hunting and will be healthy!! Ever have to put a family pet down because of health issues???????? I will never buy a cheap dog!!!! Even a pet (boxer) i will look into the breeding check for health issues from parents grandparents etc.. I'm buy a dog for 12-15years and dont want to have one break down on me at 5 and have to put him under and drag my family through that..
"Some people pride themselves on how far they can shoot ducks others pride themselves on how close they can get them. I'm an other!!! "
John Stephens RNT

HRCH Wilson's Grand Priarie Pintail "Sprig"
User avatar
i_willie12
hunter
 
Posts: 4178
Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:42 am
Location: Marshall MO

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Catdaddy89 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:19 am

I understand your points. I believe I'm gonna go with black now from your input. Anyone want to send me in that breeders direction lol
User avatar
Catdaddy89
hunter
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:11 am
Location: Thornton, TX / RRC TX

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Dakota Creek » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:17 pm

Retriever training forum (RTF) classified section for lab puppies
GMHR-III Dakota Creek's Royal Navigator MH
MHR Pine Acre's Dakota Sand Creek SH WCI
Dakota Creek's Royal Gem
Dakota Creek's Long Shot
Dakota Creek's Wreaking Havoc
Drake's Bay Super Duty (2004 - 2013)
Dakota Creek
hunter
 
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:39 pm
Location: Canada

Re:

Postby labman63 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:59 pm

Catdaddy89 wrote:I work 14 of 28 so I probably only hit half the season. I live in central Texas and hunt mostly north Texas with some central mixed in. It's mostly ponds with a few lake and river hunts mixed in. Its that reason I want a dog because more often than not I'm waiting on a bird to float back or I'm wading my spread flaring birds. I'm not ever going to a trial and it's not likely I'll send him to a trainer. I will do what I can on my own and go from there. I am not expecting to have a dog read hands or anything that professional I just don't want to have to go hunt with a pocket full of rocks to mark birds. He will be a pet that hunts....... at least that's what I have in mind anyway.

You don't expect dog to "read hands"( we call that runing blinds) but if you don't you better keep that pocket full of rocks handy because in a hunting situation a dog is not going to mark every bird shot so some blind retrieves are gonna happen....alot. Have fun with your new dog and teach it as much as you can. They are smarter than most people give credit and will learn what you teach it. I suggest you buy the Fowl Dawgs trainng videos and have fun.
labman63
hunter
 
Posts: 1698
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Griffdom » Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:05 pm

Catdaddy89 wrote:I understand your points. I believe I'm gonna go with black now from your input. Anyone want to send me in that breeders direction lol


Not sure if your joking or serious?
Griffdom
hunter
 
Posts: 269
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:22 am

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby RNT_MAN » Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:46 am

i_willie12 wrote:
bighop wrote:
i_willie12 wrote:
bighop wrote:I guess my fox red is a genetic impossibility?


Nope just breed for color like the other... but at least red labs came from labs, dark yellow labs then they breed other dark yellow labs to each other and so on... SO they were breed for color first not health or work ability

Grampa did ok, I'm not too worried...



Never said Red's arent labs or cant be great dogs Seen several that are BUT they were initially started for color, one guy like that dark color yellow lab and breed to another so on.... But they were labs!! You dog is registered yellow correct??


The original "yellow" labs registered in the late 1800's (Ben of Hyde in 1899) were described as butterscotch or golden in color. The darker shades of yellow were the original yellow labs. The buttercream and fawn colors present today are what have been bred to prevalence. Most of the buttercream and fawn colored yellows do not conform to breed standards often having pink noses and lacking the correct pigmentation on the eyelids. I am not a show person by any means, just stating that what is considered the gold standard by many for the yellow lab is incorrect. I do own and train working and titled red labradors that were bred for performance and ability...not just color. Dogs are like cars....many look the same...but the engine options are very different.
"Blow blow cold north wind, blow those mallard greenheads in.."
"Kill counts are for snipers and fighter pilots, not duck hunters."
User avatar
RNT_MAN
hunter
 
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:02 pm
Location: God's Country.....Southern Illinois

Re:

Postby WTN10 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:18 pm

Catdaddy89 wrote:I work 14 of 28 so I probably only hit half the season. I live in central Texas and hunt mostly north Texas with some central mixed in. It's mostly ponds with a few lake and river hunts mixed in. Its that reason I want a dog because more often than not I'm waiting on a bird to float back or I'm wading my spread flaring birds. I'm not ever going to a trial and it's not likely I'll send him to a trainer. I will do what I can on my own and go from there. I am not expecting to have a dog read hands or anything that professional I just don't want to have to go hunt with a pocket full of rocks to mark birds. He will be a pet that hunts....... at least that's what I have in mind anyway.


DOESN'T MATTER! You're "polluting" the breed!

/sarcasm.

I think when white supremacy went the way of the dodo, all of them got together and started breeding labs.
2014 Season Totals:
Mallards: 243
Redheads: 114
Woodducks: 119
Grebes: 36
Blue Geese: 134
Snow Geese: 178
Hawks: 4
User avatar
WTN10
hunter
 
Posts: 14016
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:02 pm
Location: Western Tunisia

Re: Re:

Postby copterdoc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:46 pm

WTN10 wrote:....DOESN'T MATTER! You're "polluting" the breed!

/sarcasm.

I think when white supremacy went the way of the dodo, all of them got together and started breeding labs.
What you don't get, is that the problems come from SELECTING for color.

Sure, the breeders that select for "silver", "charcoal", and "champagne" are in fact doing so by disregarding the breed standard, and breeding into lines that were illegally outcrossed to other breeds that carry and express the dilution trait.

That's still NOT the real issue.

They are selecting based on a "rare" paintjob. They are NOT selecting based upon health, performance and ability.

Breeding is a game of selection.
You pick your priorities, and you select for those traits.

Since there is no such thing as a perfect dog, when you decide to select for a trait, you are also forced to select AGAINST others.
And those other traits MATTER!!!!!!!!

Color doesn't matter.
It's a ridiculous criteria to place as your top priority in breeding selection.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 5806
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby copterdoc » Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:59 pm

Nobody, is selecting for black. It's only selection, is coincidental.

And that's why when it comes to the games that test and evaluate performance, black dominates by a wide margin.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 5806
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Re:

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:09 pm

WTN10 wrote:
Catdaddy89 wrote:I work 14 of 28 so I probably only hit half the season. I live in central Texas and hunt mostly north Texas with some central mixed in. It's mostly ponds with a few lake and river hunts mixed in. Its that reason I want a dog because more often than not I'm waiting on a bird to float back or I'm wading my spread flaring birds. I'm not ever going to a trial and it's not likely I'll send him to a trainer. I will do what I can on my own and go from there. I am not expecting to have a dog read hands or anything that professional I just don't want to have to go hunt with a pocket full of rocks to mark birds. He will be a pet that hunts....... at least that's what I have in mind anyway.


DOESN'T MATTER! You're "polluting" the breed!

/sarcasm.

I think when white supremacy went the way of the dodo, all of them got together and started breeding labs.

What you fail to realize is that the ones breeding specifically FOR color are the ones that you analogy fit, not the ones breeding for a wide range of desirable traits, color be damned.....
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Image
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 56102
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby dogyak » Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:28 pm

people want to get something different because it will make them feel special . A fool and his money are quickly parted. The fact that people make idiotic financial decisions without doing research explains how silver , charcoal lab breeders and bad professional trainers stay in business . One man's opinion :no:
dogyak
hunter
 
Posts: 980
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:18 pm
Location: FL

Re: Re:

Postby WTN10 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:05 pm

Indaswamp wrote:
WTN10 wrote:
Catdaddy89 wrote:I work 14 of 28 so I probably only hit half the season. I live in central Texas and hunt mostly north Texas with some central mixed in. It's mostly ponds with a few lake and river hunts mixed in. Its that reason I want a dog because more often than not I'm waiting on a bird to float back or I'm wading my spread flaring birds. I'm not ever going to a trial and it's not likely I'll send him to a trainer. I will do what I can on my own and go from there. I am not expecting to have a dog read hands or anything that professional I just don't want to have to go hunt with a pocket full of rocks to mark birds. He will be a pet that hunts....... at least that's what I have in mind anyway.


DOESN'T MATTER! You're "polluting" the breed!

/sarcasm.

I think when white supremacy went the way of the dodo, all of them got together and started breeding labs.

What you fail to realize is that the ones breeding specifically FOR color are the ones that you analogy fit, not the ones breeding for a wide range of desirable traits, color be damned.....


No, the ones breeding for color aren't preaching the "purity of the breed (race). The lab geeks are though.

Heil Coptahdoc!
2014 Season Totals:
Mallards: 243
Redheads: 114
Woodducks: 119
Grebes: 36
Blue Geese: 134
Snow Geese: 178
Hawks: 4
User avatar
WTN10
hunter
 
Posts: 14016
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:02 pm
Location: Western Tunisia

Re: Re:

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:08 pm

WTN10 wrote:
Indaswamp wrote:
WTN10 wrote:
Catdaddy89 wrote:I work 14 of 28 so I probably only hit half the season. I live in central Texas and hunt mostly north Texas with some central mixed in. It's mostly ponds with a few lake and river hunts mixed in. Its that reason I want a dog because more often than not I'm waiting on a bird to float back or I'm wading my spread flaring birds. I'm not ever going to a trial and it's not likely I'll send him to a trainer. I will do what I can on my own and go from there. I am not expecting to have a dog read hands or anything that professional I just don't want to have to go hunt with a pocket full of rocks to mark birds. He will be a pet that hunts....... at least that's what I have in mind anyway.


DOESN'T MATTER! You're "polluting" the breed!

/sarcasm.

I think when white supremacy went the way of the dodo, all of them got together and started breeding labs.

What you fail to realize is that the ones breeding specifically FOR color are the ones that you analogy fit, not the ones breeding for a wide range of desirable traits, color be damned.....


No, the ones breeding for color aren't preaching the "purity of the breed (race). The lab geeks are though.

Heil Coptahdoc!

but they are selecting only for color, just like hilter and blondes.
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Image
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 56102
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby Indaswamp » Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:09 pm

WTN-have you ever had to put down a young dog because of bad hips?
The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Save the Marsh, Eat a Nutria!

Image
User avatar
Indaswamp
Forum Moderator
 
Posts: 56102
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:40 pm
Location: South Louisiana

Re: Charcoal labs!

Postby CatSquirrel » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:08 pm

This is a working dog forum, so the general advice is going to be get a dog that's health certified and from proven stock.

Charcoals are neither.

If the OP wants to spend his time trying to make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t that's his business.

Frankly, I'd rather endure a week of the wife's wrath than deal with a bootlicker for the next 15 years.
CatSquirrel
hunter
 
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:15 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Hunting Dog Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests