Training Chessie

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Training Chessie

Postby Hoss2013 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:40 pm

I have a 8 month Chessie and he awesome everything I have wanted in a chessie. With that being said. This is the first time training one on my own and I am having trouble getting him to listen to the whistle to sit when he is away from me. He just wants to keep searching, he is one determined pup. Any suggestions on how to go about working on this situation. He does great with a long training line, but when that comes off all bets are off.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby go get the bird » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:43 pm

When I taught mine, I drilled her sit. A lot. And then some more. A lot more. Then we did it with a lead. Sit him down, walk backwards 20 ft, command here. Then sit. A lot. Then I moved to the same drill after collar conditioning. A lot.

Are you getting the general theme here? The dog needs to sit. A LOT.

Eventually, incorporate the whistle where the word "sit" would be.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby cluckmeister » Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:29 pm

Chessie, now theres one hardheaded SOB of a dog, but damn do I love them. The key to having a good retriever is OBIEDIENCE but unfortunately with a Chessie you will need to spend a lot more time on obedience drills due to the hard headiness. Id spend twice the time on obedience as I would retrieving for starters. First thing in the training session would be the obedience drills then Id use the retrieving as a reward session. Also as for hunting him this year, I would make it just you and him, its his learning season and not time for your buddies to be around. When its just you and him, you have time to learn what to expect out of each other, but when theres him, you and the buddies it just leads to confusion for him. It also less pressure on you because you don't have to worry about messing your buddies day up . If you want to go with the buddies leave the dog at home.

Good luck, you've picked one hell of a fine water dog breed

BTW , purchase a book titled Water Dog by Richard Wolters, its the book all others are judged by and the only book you will need. I hope this info helps
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Hoss2013 » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:26 pm

Thanks go get the bird and cluckmeister for the advice. I want to do the training without the use of a e-collar. I know that will probably mean a lot more on leash training and make sure he understands that command before moving out further on a lead and eventually off line.

Cluckmeister, I will look into the book.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby cluckmeister » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:07 pm

Hoss good luck with the pup, if you follow that book, have lots of patience and devote time each day, you should end up with a fine retriever. Just remember a dog is only as good as the training he receives. BTW one trick I do on the sit and stay, is, when feeding, place the dog about 10 feet from the food bowl, give the command to sit and stay . use a hand signal and verbal stay command, walk over and pour his food in the bowl. Then give a ok command and let him eat. Do this every night, varying the length of sit time. Its all about obedience and control
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby solway gunner » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:49 pm

cluckmeister wrote:Chessie, now theres one hardheaded SOB of a dog, but damn do I love them. The key to having a good retriever is OBIEDIENCE but unfortunately with a Chessie you will need to spend a lot more time on obedience drills due to the hard headiness. Id spend twice the time on obedience as I would retrieving for starters. First thing in the training session would be the obedience drills then Id use the retrieving as a reward session. Also as for hunting him this year, I would make it just you and him, its his learning season and not time for your buddies to be around. When its just you and him, you have time to learn what to expect out of each other, but when theres him, you and the buddies it just leads to confusion for him. It also less pressure on you because you don't have to worry about messing your buddies day up . If you want to go with the buddies leave the dog at home.

Good luck, you've picked one hell of a fine water dog breed

BTW , purchase a book titled Water Dog by Richard Wolters, its the book all others are judged by and the only book you will need. I hope this info helps


ive never read the book,but the advice given from cluckmeisters two posts are from someone who clearly knows the breed and how to get it fettled,epecialy at chow time-good advice there,you have to dominate in a fair but firm manor at all times for the first 12months of puppyhood,give this breed half an inclenation and theyl train you :wink:
you dont need a collar,i dont use them either,but ill add to it whilst training always "little and often" , dont do repetition and end on a positive.,basic training is all youl need to worry about for the first few months,the retrieving part is the least of your worries and will come naturaly to your dog.The secret in training a chessie is to train him /her without them knowingtheyre being trained,use plenty guile,remember,youve plenty TIME dont rush things and enjoy your dog.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby cluckmeister » Sat Oct 12, 2013 5:17 pm

Solway gunner, it sounds like you've been around a Chessie or two your fine Scottish self. Your words are kind about my posts and I thank you. I learned from my father about hardheaded dog breeds, how it takes obedience, tons of patience and devotion of time in order to get a good dog, He trained English Pointers as a sideline income/ hobby for 40 years. He was a quail hunter and never trained a true water dog, but between learning from him and the book I mentioned, I have had several really good retrievers in my life. Im sure this fellow will end up with a good dog, as I said he picked one hell of a fine breed
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby GarDuck » Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:43 pm

Gonna step on some toes here and have to disagree with some of whats been said. First of all go get the birds advice of working on sit as the dog comes to you is very good advice. It is much easier to stop/sit a dog as they are returning to you than as they are chasing after their favorite object. Use your hand feet every thing you have at your disposal to show that dog he needs to sit (traffic cop). I believe it is a disservice to stereotype all chessies as stubborn. In my experience its usually unclear instructions that are the root of the problem. Tenacious determined loyal I will agree to all 3 but the only stubborness I've seen is when Chessies are being worked by someone other than their "owner" and I would describe that more as lack of a relationship. It is important not to anthropomorphize our dogs and let mainstream catch phrases shape our interpretation of our dogs behavior. I also disagree that the dog shouldn't have a healthy appetite of retrieves at this point in their life or any point for that matter. Getting as much go out of your dog is the key it can always be reighned in. Putting basic OB on a dog is truly a piece of cake once you understand the motions and learn to use your body to show the dog what you want it to do. If it is truly burdensome consider taking a few 1 hour sessions with a local pro. I would also suggest you avoid water dog as it is very outdated and in my opinion inferior to many quality programs. If you are truly devoted to getting the most out of your dog I would suggest looking into Bill Hillmann, smartworks, total retriever, and or fowl discs. Each one of these programs will provide you with a much much greater understanding of how to approach retriever training than water dog.... Good luck bud keep at it! :beer:
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby cluckmeister » Sun Oct 13, 2013 6:52 pm

(I would also suggest you avoid water dog as it is very outdated ). Opinions are like rear ends , everyone has one. Im sure the people and programs you mention are excellent, but so is the Water Dog book. If I had a 5 dollar bill for every dog that's been trained using the water dog method, I bet I could buy that private super honey hole Ive always dreamed about. LOL

BTW Ive owned and trained 5 Chessies in my lifetime, 64 years, and everyone was hard headed. Loyal to a fault but hard headed. But, then again, I havent trained one in 15 years, so, maybe they've bred that out of them
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Rick Hall » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:21 am

Or maybe you were the "hardheaded" one?
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Dawnsearlylight » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:40 am

Ah, the old "hardheaded" myth rears it's ugly head again. Hoss, please be careful about buying into this; if you expect your dog to be hardheaded, and train him with that expectation, don't be surprised if your results are less than satisfactory.

There are reasons other than "hardheadedness" for your pup ignoring the whistle at distance, and it sounds like you may have also made him leash-wise. Garduck gave you good advice, please consider following it.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby GarDuck » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:02 am

Quite simply there are many more thorrough and more efficient training metthoods out there. Until you learn your dogs will continue not understanding quickkly and willl continue being labellled hard headed. You cantt learn history from one book and you cant learn whats happening in the worlld from one news source why should dog trainiing be any different.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:12 am

Rick, in my old mans opinion, if you have never trained a Chessie, you haven't any leg to stand on as to whether its the man or the dog that's hard headed.

Fellows: Here are some things I found about the chessie

Chesapeakes are hard headed. TRUE (and false)

Chesapeakes are independent. There is a very big difference between independent and hard headed. An independent animal is thinking for itself. A hard headed
animal will not learn. Motivation is the key here. Think in terms of what the Chessie might want, i.e., food, the ball, a rag, a dirty sock, etc. Once you get the dog's
attention with the object of its desire, you can achieve miracles.

Often called the “Ironman” of the retriever breeds, the Chesapeake Bay Retriever’s history began with a shipwreck off the coast of Maryland in 1807. Among those saved from the ship were two Newfoundland pups, Sailor and Cantor. These pups were carefully crossed with local hounds and retrievers to create this outstanding retriever with incredible enthusiasm and endurance. The Chesapeake Bay Ducking Dog, as it was known, was used by the market hunters in the area for retrieving and guarding fallen waterfowl from the turbulent and icy waters of the Chesapeake Bay.

Sometimes mistaken for “odd looking Labs”, Chessies are a strong, powerfully built medium-sized breed with yellowish or amber eyes and a distinctive coat - a short, harsh, wavy outercoat with a dense fine wooly undercoat. Color can be brown, sedge or deadgrass and should be as close to that of his working surroundings as possible.

Notorious for being hard-headed, Chessies are the type to ask “Why?” when commanded to perform a task. Once the “why” is figured out, owner and dog do extremely well as a team. Fiercely loyal to their families, Chessies are often aloof around strangers and other dogs. The Chesapeake is a happy and intelligent breed whose courage, working ability and love of water mesh best with active, outdoor-loving families.


That last paragraph, describes every Chessie Ive ever had, so between that paragraph and the one talking about independence, I guess we have our own opinions and they should be respected. As for the Wolters methods of training, thousands of both field trial dogs and true hunting dogs have been trained via that book. It may be outdated just as a old double gun is in todays modern synthetic camo stock Benelli world, but it still works

The bottom line is that regardless of the breed and each ones individual characteristics, the owner must be willing to devote
a lot of time, money, and PATIENCE to have a good retriever
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby solway gunner » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:55 am

cluckmeister
there used to be some good chessie guys on here,but they all left some time ago.Pick your words carefully on here or youl end up embroiled in a pissing match .,see theres one labster chimed in already on the thread.. Hardheaded? i must be to own two browndogs :lol3: you shouldve said "difficult" its more PC :thumbsup:
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Anoldhuntersc » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:08 pm

Hoss2013 wrote:Thanks go get the bird and cluckmeister for the advice. I want to do the training without the use of a e-collar. I know that will probably mean a lot more on leash training and make sure he understands that command before moving out further on a lead and eventually off line.

Cluckmeister, I will look into the book.


He good luck with your dog! Enjoy training him! You'll have many years of joy from the relationship training/hunting brings. If you want a book that covers training with/without e-collar check out the book Finished Dog by Charlie Jurney. Good explanations on why dogs do what the do and our roll as trainers on how to get them to do what we want no matter what the breed!! .02 worth
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby GarDuck » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:13 pm

[quote="cluckmeister"]Rick, in my old mans opinion, if you have never trained a Chessie, you haven't any leg to stand on as to whether its the man or the dog that's hard headed.
[/quo

... Seriously :lol:
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby go get the bird » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:29 pm

Rick has trained a few dogs, even a coyote. :lol3:
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:59 pm

go get the bird, I trained a damned old English Pointer years ago, That old dog was so good I had to use duct tape and place it over one nostril hole to keep him from smelling 2 coveys of quail at one time. Now that's funny I don't care what breed you got LOL
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Rick Hall » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:38 pm

cluckmeister wrote:Rick, in my old mans opinion, if you have never trained a Chessie, you haven't any leg to stand on as to whether its the man or the dog that's hard headed.


I came to Chesapeakes from a background in bird dogs, and though my first one had Elloise Cherry's notorious Tiger and Barron behind him, it was like working with the most anxious to learn kid in the class. Largely because of the Bay dog's increased attention span. Now on my fourth, I've yet to encounter a "hard head" - other than my own when I insist on pursuing a course that plainly isn't working, rather than looking for another that will.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Rick Hall » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:45 pm

Hoss, if your pup likes to work reward him for sitting to whistle with work. Ie: when you're out just hacking around without distraction hit the sit whistle and toss him a bumper just as soon as his butt hits the ground. Over time it will become a reflex response and you can gradually increase the distractions.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby gock5 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:36 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:Rick, in my old mans opinion, if you have never trained a Chessie, you haven't any leg to stand on as to whether its the man or the dog that's hard headed.


I came to Chesapeakes from a background in bird dogs, and though my first one had Elloise Cherry's notorious Tiger and Barron behind him, it was like working with the most anxious to learn kid in the class. Largely because of the Bay dog's increased attention span. Now on my fourth, I've yet to encounter a "hard head" - other than my own when I insist on pursuing a course that plainly isn't working, rather than looking for another that will.




I consider myself hardheaded, but my CBR just "disagrees with me" sometimes. Still is the best dog around!
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby buckmeister » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:14 pm

I personally never care if my dogs give me the perfect sit on the whistle so long as they look at me, never saw a dog sit on the water. Toss a bumper for your dog and just after he starts for the bumper hit your whistle and when he looks back at you toss a bouncing tennis ball. The bouncing tennis ball is his reward for the look, translates nicely to taking a cast on the water. It is much like Ricks suggestion which will work quite well too.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Dawnsearlylight » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:09 am

Rick Hall wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:Rick, in my old mans opinion, if you have never trained a Chessie, you haven't any leg to stand on as to whether its the man or the dog that's hard headed.


I came to Chesapeakes from a background in bird dogs, and though my first one had Elloise Cherry's notorious Tiger and Barron behind him, it was like working with the most anxious to learn kid in the class. Largely because of the Bay dog's increased attention span. Now on my fourth, I've yet to encounter a "hard head" - other than my own when I insist on pursuing a course that plainly isn't working, rather than looking for another that will.


I'm on my eighth Chessie, and have worked with a bunch of others in my training business and as regional director for the breed club. My Tiger-bred dog taught me more about training than any human I ever worked with, and was responsible for a sea change in my training methods. My Classic Brew descendant was just as you describe Rick, and he would get very upset and anxious if he failed to learn something new within two trials.

I bred, trained and showed these dogs in three different disciplines for over thirty years, hunted the hell out of them, and guided both waterfowl and upland on a commercial preserve for over thirteen years. I have seen my share of poorly bred ones, and a carelessly bred dog of any breed can have problems, "hard-headedness" being the least of them. To me, when a well-bred dog gets labeled stubborn or hard-headed, it says more about the trainer than it does about the dog. My Tiger dog's dam was the one which went down in the water with a devastating heart attack, and got up and finished the retrieve while I stood on the creek bank bawling my eyes out. I guess one could call her hard-headed if one was possessed of a very limited vocabulary . . . .

Hoss, you need more help and education than can be given here; once again, see Garduck's post.
Last edited by Dawnsearlylight on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby GarDuck » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:38 am

The heart atttack story is truly astonishing and will certainly echo through my mind as I work my clients dogs this morrning.
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Re: Training Chessie

Postby Dawnsearlylight » Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:06 am

GarDuck wrote:The heart atttack story is truly astonishing and will certainly echo through my mind as I work my clients dogs this morrning.


It was that, talk about git 'er done. Lots of mixed emotions watching it . . .
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