weim-a-dors

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Postby brucemacp » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:04 pm

You have a labrador and a Weimaraner? Are they both AKC registered dogs? Just wondering why you didn't breed them back to their respective breeds. I personaly don't care if you want to breed your dogs or not. They are your dogs. Do I think it's smart, no. Do I think it's responsible, no, but hey that's just me and my opinion. BTW Laberdoodles are not an AKC registered breed. What they are is a marketing gimmick to sell inferior dogs to unsuspecting idiots. One of the oldest hunting breeds around with bloodlines that are pure back hundreds of years, the Spinone Italiano, was only admitted recently. They are not going to let a cross bred mutt in any time soon. This really makes me wonder what thought process goes into these decisions.
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Postby Swamp Puppy » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:11 pm

brucemacp wrote: BTW Laberdoodles are not an AKC registered breed.


thank God for that...i had heard rumblings that the AKC was going to recognize it. i'm glad to hear that they didn't.
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Postby gsphunter » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:47 pm

Wouldn't those genius breeders love that. Then they could fill the Sunday classifieds with AKC registered Labradoodles. :pissed:

Another thought to consider. Somebody made reference to the thread about legal ways of hunting. Quite possibly one of the things that saved game species in North America was laws pertaining to hunting. Before laws, pioneers had buffalo nearly wiped out. The only thing that stopped this was laws. What is to stop dog breeds from turning into trash? This is left to breeders! Responsible breeders! Dog owners who care about improving their breeds! Just something to think about.
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Postby duckdog » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:59 pm

the sad thing is that the APR (american pet registry) is out there. :thumbsdown: People can register any kind of pet in this. That is where labradoodle's are coming from. So called breeder's are registering in the APR because they got booted from the AKC/UKC for not following the guide lines. I know two of these people that were booted for not taking DNA tests on there male's after breeding them so many time's. Hence if your not doctoring up your litter paper's you have no worries, but if you are they get out and jump to the APR where it's all acceptable. Sad thing is they sucker people into paying alot of money for a dog that you get nothing with, and it only cost's them a dollar to register the pup. Its even sad that they put the word american in the APR
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Postby phillipstd » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:53 am

Yes there both registered, yes they have been breed back into there own breed, both the dogs are good dogs, yes most of them went to hunting houses a bunch went to my freinds that wanted them, none of them went to the pound, you see most people don't want/caint afford, to buy two dogs an upland dog and a waterfoul dog, you get a lab there great for duck hunting, not so great for pheasent, you get a gsp, great for pheasent, not so great for ducks, I'm not sayin either won't work for everything, they will, but allot of people want a dog that's awsome at both, I didn't know so many people thought it was so bad to breed two good dogs together just because they won't be recognized by the akc, it's not like I have a litter everymonth or every year for that matter I don't do it for money or to overpoplulate this country with dogs, ya maybe I could have found someone else that had done that and gotten one from them, but I wanted a pup from these two dogs. question me or think I'm dumb for doin it all you want I don't realy care what you think if you want to bash me for doin it, nobody I talked to prevously had anything bad to say about it. as for turning one breed into trash by doing this I don't think that's gonna happen cause none of the pups are going to be bred. I still don't think it was a bad idea.
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Postby Swamp Puppy » Tue Mar 15, 2005 9:15 am

i've seen dogs that were crosses between labs and other upland dogs that ended up not being good for anything. not saying that will happen here,but they end up losing that thick lab double coat so they can't handle the cold water, but end up with the labs upland hunting attributes. (which i personally think are ok. you should see my pup get after pheasants.)
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Postby gsphunter » Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:47 pm

It's just a huge crap shoot is what it is. Yes just about any breeding could be considered a crap shoot, but why not better your odds. There are so many variations you could get out of different breeds.

Why not just got a Whirehair. Upland dogs with plenty of drive in the cold to get you through your last duck hunt of the year.
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Postby HuntingWife » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:01 pm

:hammering: The issue of there being too many unwanted dogs in this country should not even come into the conversation. We all know that animal shelters are overcrowded and that perfectly good cats and dogs (unfortunately) have to be put down every day because there aren’t enough good homes for them. However, that issue is completely irrelevant to this conversation, because you are supposedly talking about breeding hunting dogs, and I don’t think too many of those come from shelters anyway. Now, I will readily admit that I know nothing about dog breeding, or what it takes to breed a good hunting dog. However, I think this issue has been blown way out of proportion by a couple of guys who think a whole lot of their own opinions. From what I can tell, Duckaholic had a simple question, and Phillipstd had some personal experience to offer him. Very shortly thereafter, it began to seem as though the two were suggesting that it would be a good idea to start indiscriminately cross-pollinating breeds, and I do not think that is the case at all. Were Phillipstd to start cranking out little Weim-a-dor litters every 12 months or so, then we might have a problem with mutts trying to be new pure breeds of hunting dogs, but I don’t think he is suggesting having a puppy factory in his basement. Now you have all sufficiently expressed your opinions (some with more spelling errors than others... it's "bred", not "bread"... unless you are discussing sandwich breeding!) and you can talk nicely about something else. So let sleeping dogs lie (as it were) and go scatter your opinions over some other topics. Because I think this one is officially argued out!
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Postby brucemacp » Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:12 pm

WHOA!! Guess class is out boys. :laughing: :laughing:
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Postby phillipstd » Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:02 am

who won
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Postby gsphunter » Wed Mar 16, 2005 7:59 am

Hunting Mom don't you think the people who don't hunt and got a mutt from this breeding could have gone to the local shelter to get a dog. This is how the issue plays into this. Also how many people do you think do this. It's not just duckaholic and phillip. It's just a shame that hunting dog owners don't become more educated before breeding!
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Postby HuntingWife » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:06 am

And I'm sure you're just the person to do that, Gsphunter. Just look at how well you have reached the masses and changed opinions here by your endless fussing. Last word freak!

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Postby JJ McGuire » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:03 am

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Postby cmelik10 » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:41 am

I have been watching this post for awhile now reading all of your opinions. So now I think its time for mine. I personally think this is a bad idea, I am not a breeder nor do I think I will ever become a breeder BECAUSE right now my CLF has nothing to offer to the breed. Yes she is a good dog and is already a good hunter at 5 months, but physically and ability wise she is just a run of the mill lab. Although I bought her from a "backyard" breeder I can say that I do not like backyard breeders. For the most part (meaning some not all) do not know what they are doing other than trying to make a quick buck. For this reason you see the problems that we have right now with labs...sever genetic issues. The increase in labs having hip displaysa is a direct effect of alot of dogs with less than good hips being breed and their puppies who have the genetics for bad hips being breed. Also as stated before it is very evident in the golden retriever breed the "hunt" has been bred out of them because people wanted them as pets instead of as working dogs.

I am not going to tell you not to breed your dogs, that decision is yours and yours alone. What I am going to say is think about what you are doing, all the consicenses (sp) that could possibly come from doing this. If you still want to at least for the first couple of litter, if you plan on having more than one, make the pups be spayed or nuttered to insure that if there is a problem with these dogs it cannot be spread. I am not trying to start another big argument I just want you to make sure of everything before you start this little endevor that could lead to something pretty big.

As for the links the were posted about the silver labs, I have heard from reputalbe breeders that the reason that the AKC does not recognize silver labs is because they are a genetic deforimity brought on by inter family breeding. I have no evidence on this but that is what I have been told but a person that does breed labs for a living.

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Postby gsphunter » Wed Mar 16, 2005 1:08 pm

Hunting Wife seriously pay attention I asked you a question. Why don't you answer it? Tell me how hunting dogs going to non hunting families does not play into the issue of dogs in shelters.
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Postby brucemacp » Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:41 pm

JJ McGuire what category would silverlabs be listed under as far as the AKC breed standard as it relates to color? Hunters Wife, I notice you only have 2 posts on this site and in the first one you basically decide what the discussion is, who's right and that the conversation should be over. Excuse me but that is why they call it a forum. If the thread no longer interests you read another one or start your own. :thumbsdown:
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Postby HuntingWife » Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:04 pm

Gsphunter, I’m sorry, I thought questions had question marks after them. Sincere apologies. My answer to you is that I thought we WERE talking about hunting dogs, and as I pointed out before, it doesn’t seem like a lot of people go to shelters to try to find good hunting dogs. And since we are only talking about one litter whose puppies had been spoken for and would not be going to shelters, the point was still moot. I’m trying to stay away from sweeping generalizations here. I realize that lots of unwanted puppies end up in shelters, just not in this particular instance. Brucemacp, this is my third post on this forum. I made my first post after reading every single reply to this topic, and it was pretty clear what we were talking about. I didn’t just jump in and assume I knew what the discussion was. The discussion was right there in front of me. I am sure that at some point, you only had one or two posts on this forum, and I hope that people didn’t criticize the validity of your opinions before you had posted dozens of them. And I never said the thread no longer interested me, I simply pointed out that y’all seem to like chasing your own tails, saying the same things over and over and never conceding that your opinions may not be the only right ones. If I wasn’t interested, I wouldn’t be typing this right now. I also want to point out that I never said I (or anyone else) was “right.” Now, if you will excuse me, Gahunter has some very interesting ideas about Beaver-dors that I would like to know more about! Just don’t start fussing again if you decide you want to weigh in on them as well. Good night, gentlemen!
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Postby gsphunter » Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:25 am

I'm guessing you're an english teacher or something related, so I won't argue your knowledge of english. You obviously know little (ignorant) about dog breeding, so please stick to english. People really do not sound good when they argue about things they know little about. Oh by the way I'll send some of my term papers for you to proofread if you don't mind.

Here is the deal. I'm going to try ONE more time. If the ignorant still wish to be ignorant that's fine.

Some of these puppies went to non hunting homes. Got that?

These are not hunting dogs then. Got that?

People that did not wish to have a hunting dog could have rescued a dog from a shelter. Easy enough to understand I think.

These people going to the shelter to get their dog would have helped the problem, not in a large way, but still a help.

Any further (that is the correct use right Hunting Wife) explanation should not be neccesary.
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Postby JJ McGuire » Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:10 pm

brucemacp wrote:JJ McGuire what category would silverlabs be listed under as far as the AKC breed standard as it relates to color?


Hi Bruce
It is my understanding that they are registered as chocolate.
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Postby mfetter » Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:30 pm

HUNTINGWIFE---You have four post to your name and have yet to contribute something relevant to this post. For you to say that some random person breeding two dogs that have no purpose in being bred in the first place would not contribute to the already over flowing shelters just proves how little you know about dogs and breeding dogs. There are people that should be breeding dogs and those are the people trying to better the breed with the proper knowledge of breeding. Not some random person who thinks his weimi and lab are both good hunting dogs therefore will produce good hunting puppies. Not only that but MANY MANY years and executed dogs went into making the breeds that we have now. Does this person plan on destroying the puppies with problems or even continuing his "QUEST" after the first litter--Probally not after he finds out that breeding isnt just putting two dogs together and hoping for the best. I suggest you learn alittle more about breeding and have some decent arguments for you posting some random passive agressive post, otherwise they are going to be classified under what I alreadt consider the last three of your post----Pointless crap----

edited-98ramtough watch the language!
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Postby gahunter » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:23 pm

Bull****! :hammering: I thought this was a family oriented website. If I knew that language like that was acceptable, I could have made some of my posts a lot more colorful.
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Postby Gooseboy » Fri Apr 01, 2005 4:55 pm

calm down jeese. You all say MUTTS like its something grose a dog is a dog it doesnt matter what his ancestors did if you train him right hell do what you want him to do. I have a lab who has no hunting background and picked it up on his own without any training, he is awsome at hunting. Then i have a beagle whose mom is a 7 time champion, and he cant hunt worth a darn, but there both still the best dogs in the world. You a should be ashamed. He said he wanted a hunting and family dog. Sounds like all you guys want is a dog to hunt. Not to be a companion or anything. Some people care more about the dog than the pedigree, some dogs are actually a mans best friend not a mans best worker. If your so concerned with "mutts" in the pound MFETTER either go save some, or go join up with PETA! :pissed: You all are taking this way to seriously. And back off of hunting mom jeese.
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Postby gahunter » Fri Apr 01, 2005 11:49 pm

You better be glad that you have just gotten in on this discussion, because you would have been blown out of the water during the heat of this thing. :yes: But don't fret you still might. :thumbsup:
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Postby Swamp Puppy » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:15 am

hey..at least he is jumping in with both feet. gotta love a guy who shows up and speaks his mind. at least i do.

you know, while we're on the subject. i was thinking about a "weiner - dor". imagine how good it would be for running down pheasants in the thick stuff.
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Postby Swamp Puppy » Sat Apr 02, 2005 9:22 am

HuntingWife wrote: I am sure that at some point, you only had one or two posts on this forum, and I hope that people didn’t criticize the validity of your opinions before you had posted dozens of them.


:pissed: grrrrr...i hate that. since when do people need to have a lot of posts to have an opinion or make valid points? in alot of cases it is the new person to an old convo that gives it a fresh perspective and new life. otherwise, as huntingwife pointed out, it is just a bunch of the same people saying the same things over and over for 4 pages.

well spoken Huntingwife. i hope you don't let this deter you from sticking around and posting with the rest of us "fun" people.

:salude:

-Ed


PS - sorry about the double post. :oops:
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