Which meat dog program?

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Which meat dog program?

Postby YJSONLY » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:07 pm

I do not want a field trial program... And should I use a collar? Opinions? This will be my first attempt to train a bird dog. I will be looking into a local club to join. I still have a couple months until I pick up my lab.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby krazybronco2 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:20 pm

the "field trial" stuff is still needed for a meat dog. I would recommend smartworks by evan graham or total retriever training by mike lardy.

I say the first part because to me the point of having a dog is so I don't have to wade through places or have to get the boat to get to the other side or not being able to get to the other side many different situations. if you have a dog that can do multiple retrieves, run a blind and come back even as birds are dropping around his head with out dropping the bird in his mouth you will have a dog that you wont have to do all that other stuff cause you will have a well trained dog that understands its job and you the pup and all your buddies will have a lot more fun when yall do go hunting.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby brsutton86 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:21 pm

Duck dog basics program is pretty good. He does a good job explaining. Goes through Force Fetch and collar conditioning. Pretty much a meat dog program, then part 2 goes into handling.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby omaha » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:27 pm

Save your money and buy water dog. It will give you all you need for 25 bucks instead of 160
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby River Ramblin' Man » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:47 pm

brsutton86 wrote:Duck dog basics program is pretty good. He does a good job explaining. Goes through Force Fetch and collar conditioning. Pretty much a meat dog program, then part 2 goes into handling.


This is exactly what I was going to say. DDB is the program I used and I would recommend it to anyone wanting a good weekend warrior duck dog. Bronco is right to an extent, but IMO there's things that a dog will need to do in field trials that may not come into play while hunting. That being said, it's not like a dog can be overly qualified. So Smartworks would be great as well.

I'd definitely use an ecollar. Just be sure to use it properly. But any program you choose will go over CC. Good luck with your dog! Remember to be patient in the early stages (or any stage) and have fun with it.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby Dakota Creek » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:52 pm

Basics are basics .... Doesn't matter if you are planning to run FT's, HT's or have a hunting companion. If you don't want to spend $$$$'s on new check out the classified section on RTF as there are always people on there selling previously watched training DVD's ..... And there are more up to date / complete training programs than Water Dog.

As to using an e-collar ... It will definitely help in training when used correctly. You will have good mentors for training and learning to properly use and train with the collar by joining your local retriever training club.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby dogyak » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:44 pm

Even though I've never used the Duck Dog Basics , it's a good program for a beginning . Someone said in general save your money and get water dog and don't spend 160 . Wrong , you can get DD1 and DD2 all for 50 and shipment from Avery's . Also you can have Fowl Dogs which is a complete program for around 65 . Waterdog is dated , not saying you cannot trained a dog with it . Just better programs out there . Good for you joining a club , those folks will help and head you in the right direction :thumbsup:
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby Jarbo03 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:35 pm

Use a good program and stick with it. To me the only difference between a meat dog and FT dog is, a meat dog you teach to do things, a FT dog you teach til they can't get it wrong plus extended ranges. You'll get out of your dog what you put in.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby QuackHead89 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:04 am

omaha wrote:Save your money and buy water dog. It will give you all you need for 25 bucks instead of 160


Although there is some good information, it is pretty outdated. The entire Fowl Dawgs set is about 65 bucks, invest your money there. It worked well for me, as well as many other guys on this board. You can also call Rick up on the phone if need be if you hit a snag. I too started off saying I wanted a meat dog. I got so much enjoyment from training, that I wanted to keep going. Plus I hunted with a dog that could run blinds, and not to be outdone, I decided I wanted to take it to that level.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby Spry Yellowdog » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:25 am

Curious what is the criteria for a meat dog? One that will retrieve a duck that it sees splash in front of it?
One that is the self taught happy go lucky animal? One that brings a duck halfway back then starts eating it?
Better yet one that sees a duck splash from a neighboring blind and goes out and eats it. Has no respect for other dogs in the field? Whines and barks in a blind?
I have seen it all in the public marsh I hunt. Almost every dog out there goes by the name of Son of a B****h
I recommend using Lardys or Smartworks spend 2 years and have a fully trained retriever. Then have a dog that will get you invited hunting.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby River Ramblin' Man » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:54 am

Jarbo03 wrote:To me the only difference between a meat dog and FT dog is, a meat dog you teach to do things, a FT dog you teach til they can't get it wrong plus extended ranges.

This is mainly what I meant when I made my comment about FT dogs doing things meat dogs don't need too. A meat dog needs to be able to mark multiple birds, run blinds, deliver to hand, etc. But I would not send my dog on a blind over a couple hundred yards. Just my opinion.

Dakota Creek wrote:Basics are basics .... Doesn't matter if you are planning to run FT's, HT's or have a hunting companion.


This is true. I guess that I kind of assumed the OP new that the basics (such as obedience) were necessary for a dog on any level. IMO the difference between FT dogs and weekend warrior dogs isn't in the early stages, but is in how far you want to go into the more advanced stuff.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby omaha » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:00 pm

Water dog might be out dated but I had never trained a dog and my dog turned out to be a very good hunting dog, blinds, triples, casting, and I learned it all from water dog, not saying it's the best but it has all the basics and is where a lot of the training we do outdated started. I am sure the others are great but to me I don't see the need to buy them.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby CatSquirrel » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:57 am

IMO the difference between FT dogs and weekend warrior dogs isn't in the early stages, but is in how far you want to go into the more advanced stuff.


Not really....the standards have to be very high for FT dogs throughout basics into advanced. Much more so than a meat dog.
The steps are similar, but the applied standard(s) are much higher.

As far as Water Dog, that "program" was first published in 1962 (or 1964). Why is still gets recommended is beyond me....
Dog training has come a long way in the last 50 years.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby YJSONLY » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:47 pm

What I was trying to say is I need a program that does not go to far in what I want/need/able to do. I will not be running 500 yard blinds. I am not looking for a trial dog program that is all.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:08 am

CatSquirrel wrote:As far as Water Dog, that "program" was first published in 1962 (or 1964). Why is still gets recommended is beyond me....


Because it makes gun dog training doable for so many folks who are likely intimidated by "programs" that look more like complex engineering projects than something more guys have the time and ambition for - and they've kept it popular by word of mouth. (Last time I checked Graham's (sp?) site, which was some time ago, he was peddling 3 books and a dozen DVDs on how to train a retriever.)
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby CatSquirrel » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:59 am

Oh, trust me Rick...I know WaterDog well. I trained my very first dog with it back in the late 70's/early 80's.

It's certainly "vintage" :wink:
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby QuackHead89 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:18 am

Water dog is old material, can it still work? Yes. Does it still work? Yes. When I started this dog training journey I read water dog because it was heavily recommended, I read ten minute retriever, and then I decided on Fowl Dawgs because as a student cost was an issue. I was satisfied with the product as well as the ability to contact up its creator. I also combed this forum, retriever training forum, and read countless articles trying to glean information and improve my knowledge. If you can check out multiple sources, do it. Heck, waterdog is free if you have an afternoon to sit in barnes and noble and read, as well as any other books. Whatever works for you. For me being able to visually see the steps being performed on video, and having the ability to pick up the phone if need be was easier for me to follow. At the end of the day the end result is all that matters. Is it something you can be happy with and proud of? Then who cares what other folks think. I can respect any man who can train a dog worth a damn.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby YJSONLY » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:53 am

I am a hands on kinda of learner. Reading just want cut it. I am going to try and make this pup a good one or best that I can so we will see.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:45 pm

Then go find a trainer you can throw birds and shovel crap for in return for hands on opportunity.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby QuackHead89 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:16 pm

Join a local retriever club then
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby buckmeister » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:00 pm

A good meat dog book is "Robert Milners" Retreiver training, a back to basics approach. A good dvd would be the one by Wild Rose Kennels. Much easier for the first time trainers. Bill Hillmann's dvd's are good also. All these materials don't push force fetch training and our much easier for the guy that wants a competent hunting dog.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:32 pm

CatSquirrel wrote:Oh, trust me Rick...I know WaterDog well...

It's certainly "vintage" :wink:


And wouldn't sell a copy in this "new and improved," "latest and greatest" world if so many folks didn't keep saying, "Worked for me."
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby YJSONLY » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:39 pm

YJSONLY wrote:I am a hands on kinda of learner. Reading just want cut it. I am going to try and make this pup a good one or best that I can so we will see.
I mean visual / hands. Reading in a book will not work.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby omaha » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:13 pm

I have to say I am not impressed with graham either I asked him some questions one time got emails saying I need his basic duck dog DVD, guess what it was water dog with ff, so I paided 25 dollars to learn ff which I later found a better video online. Also I felt like his program was more like a college course than a training video. Go with what you want but I say save your money.
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Re: Which meat dog program?

Postby omaha » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:16 pm

Hey if a visual works better for you get a DVD program, there are some good ones.
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