Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

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Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby Tyrtruion » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:03 am

:huh:
She's doing great... She loves retrieving birds... She's a 13 month old FBL/GSP mix
She will sit in the blind with me very calm and well behaved pre shoot time... A couple birds flew in with the deeks and she starts getting so excited and worked up that she's shaking and whining and while sitting, creeping forward cause she wants those feathers in her mouth.
I've done all the training myself.
Any ideas if the excited whine will subside with a little more age?
I'm hesitant to use the E collar because I kind of get excited too when I see birds heading my way... Just now that I'm a little older I'm able to remain steady...
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby OmegaRed » Fri Nov 22, 2013 6:35 am

I would say age and exposure. Dog is still young, and like you said gets excited when she see's birds. Get her out in parks, on hunts where she sees lots of birds coming in but doesn't get to retrieve. It will help.

Also teaching a "quiet" command is useful. I wouldn't go with e collar as she has no clue why she's getting shocked. She doesn't associate the whining with the punishment.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby Tyrtruion » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:22 am

That's what I was thinking about the E collar... I would equate it to you asking if I want to go hunting, me saying yes, then you slapping me...
I'm guessing that yes more time and more exposure will help but I have taken her many times to the park to just play and when there's ducks and geese at the pond she freezes up and points... But no whining.

How would you recommend teaching a "quiet" command tho?
Trust me. 8 hours in a pond with leaky waders, to not fire a single shot... Is still better than work.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby Duckdon » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:50 am

I have never had much success with the e-collar in that arena. I would more likely use a heel stick but long before the heel stick I teach "quiet".
I expect and teach "quiet" early on as a pup so they know the meaning. The absolute hardest thing is getting rid of that low, whine that some develop. People say that a whiner does not know they are doing it......Sometimes I agree but "quiet" is still 'quiet".
I hunt lots of game and hunt from a boat or blind. Almost always with more than one dog. When I start a pup in the yard or field I usually have them on lead, The mutt sitting close to me, I'm holding one hand in front of the chest and with the lead for maintaining breaking control. Then I calm them with the other telling them " quiet". Lots of this is done when bear hunting in the spring from the boat or on other big game we encounter from the boat during the summer. It puts the pup in a position of high excitement but the learn that "quiet" is expected.
My current pup "Klous" was 4 to 7 months old when we were doing most of this training and he develpoed a very quiet manner early on. My lab still will have a very low, audible whine when a bear walks out but is never noisey when the ducks are in the pattern.

I have sat with bears on the shore at 20 yards, for 1/2 hour or moose at as close as 12 yards for almost an hour.
joseymoose.jpg

3 dogs in the boat, everyone "quiet". It's good experience training to be calm. Takes lots of time but I expect "quiet" or your staying home.
We don't bark or should I say we are not supposed to bark at birds, or critters. We work quiet all the time. That sort of training transfers to the duck blind.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby OmegaRed » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:12 am

I agree with Don.

That being said, quiet to me is taught much like "heel". It's not taught, it's associated once it's being done. By that I mean you don't pull on a dog and say heel, you teach that dog that when it's in the heel position - that's what heel means. Then you build off that, and can start enforcing with heel stick and moving to more advanced work (off lead etc.)

You don't tell a dog to be quiet when it's barking, then expect it to know what you mean. You have to pretty much set the dog up on this one. Your situation might be different, but here's what I do. My kennel inside is by my couch. When she was a pup and barked in the kennel, I sat and watched TV (with ear muffs on), with treats at the ready (you may laugh about the ear muffs, but I get pissed off with a dog barking incessantly. You have to keep your calm and be consistent. So if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. With just whining, it might not be as bad) Wait for the dog to bark. When dog stops barking, say "quiet" followed by treat and good girl. Soon they pick up that when I'm quiet, I get a treat, and they associate "quiet" command with being quiet. It's a long and sometimes frustrating process. You can't get mad, and have to be consistent. You have to realize they have no idea what you are talking about. You are teaching an infant with no understanding of the word or action.

Then once they have an understanding of the word, and will be quiet on command, I introduce E collar (after dog's been CC'd of course). That way, I have recourse if I'm on the phone or out of the room. They have to have an understanding of the word before you can use e collar correction for this!!

Then if they bark, Quiet/nick with collar, and that works. Like I said, long draw out process, don't move to harsher methods just because it's not working.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby Tyrtruion » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:27 am

I like your quiet/treat method but I don't think I'll be able to do that with my pup. She's never been a barker or growler and only whines in this one instance in the blind when there are ducks she can see...
Honest... The only times she barks are:
1) in her sleep... Soft little barks and growls
2) in the kennel in my pickup if I'm walking away and not taking her with me.
So I think rewarding her quiet times wouldn't send any message at all cause quiet is just normal... I guess I could try it tomorrow when I'm in the blind an hour before shoot time. A jerk line for some movement, low light.... It's worth a try right.
Trust me. 8 hours in a pond with leaky waders, to not fire a single shot... Is still better than work.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby OmegaRed » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:36 am

Tyrtruion wrote:I like your quiet/treat method but I don't think I'll be able to do that with my pup. She's never been a barker or growler and only whines in this one instance in the blind when there are ducks she can see...
Honest... The only times she barks are:
1) in her sleep... Soft little barks and growls
2) in the kennel in my pickup if I'm walking away and not taking her with me.
So I think rewarding her quiet times wouldn't send any message at all cause quiet is just normal... I guess I could try it tomorrow when I'm in the blind an hour before shoot time. A jerk line for some movement, low light.... It's worth a try right.


You could do it with her in the kennel in your pickup the same way. It doesn't matter where or how, just somewhere where she makes noise.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby Duckdon » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:02 am

Tyrtruion wrote:I like your quiet/treat method but I don't think I'll be able to do that with my pup. She's never been a barker or growler and only whines in this one instance in the blind when there are ducks she can see...
Honest... The only times she barks are:
1) in her sleep... Soft little barks and growls
2) in the kennel in my pickup if I'm walking away and not taking her with me.
So I think rewarding her quiet times wouldn't send any message at all cause quiet is just normal... I guess I could try it tomorrow when I'm in the blind an hour before shoot time. A jerk line for some movement, low light.... It's worth a try right.


Sorry, I was not clear and you missed the point I was trying to make.
"Quiet" is a life style. Not an option.
1: Growling in her sleep....I just smile
2: Bark when I walk away from her in the kennel, I correct that with what ever it takes. "Quiet is still Quiet"
3: Reward for doing right? Huh, I do reward for doing correct.

I am trying to say that if you set her up for those high stress times, ( You want her to whine during training), I know you missed my point when you said "I guess I could try it tomorrow when I'm in the blind an hour before shoot time." and have a chance to make corrections and mold her to what you want. Can you do it, just as I do. YES, maybe you don't have moose..........we don't have cows.....do you have sheep or horses.....we have bears. Put her in a position where she makes the mistakes ( maybe you need to go to the local park and get her in front of ducks) and correct her mistakes and encourage her correct behavior. Then transfer that correct behavior to the duck blind...................where you are training and not shooting. You will not fix this problem in one session, before shooting light. My guess is that quick fix approch will likely cause more confusion than help. You have a very rare and good pup, at her age, if she only makes noise in the blind when the ducks are in the pattern.
Don't get the idea that my way of teaching quiet is the only way. I know lots of other guys teach quiet, I see that when they walk away from the truck or their dog is tied behind the line. This is just how I do it.
Good luck in the morning.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby GoldieRetriever50 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:52 am

Man this hits home. I'm a 1st year waterfowler with a 2 year old Goldie. Started her training when she was a few months old. Great duck dog with a HUGE hunt and retrieve drive, I'm truly blessed. Her first hunt she was shaking like a tree and whining constantly....she was jacked. Now she's had about 20 retrieves in the field and she has gotten rid of that for the most part. She sits behind/next to me quietly. She only starts shaking and whining when shots are fired and ducks hit the water. Especially If guns stand up and water swat. I can tell she definitly feeds off the hubting parties excitement level. I tried to stop this but the more I thought about it...what does it hurt? I have a dog with a huge drive who gets excited to work. She's quiet when ducks are working and in my opinion that's the most important. Her whining while the smoke clears doesnt hurt the hunt. Anyone agree/disagree? I can tell time and experience have helped her already. I will focus more time on getting her to avoid the occasional "break" at gunfire and hopefully one day she can be off a tether. Ps anyone gave training tips on the breaking issue other than the backyard or local lake throw a training bird and shoot while she stays?
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby B.E.Nelli » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:17 am

GoldieRetriever50 wrote:Man this hits home. I'm a 1st year waterfowler with a 2 year old Goldie. Started her training when she was a few months old. Great duck dog with a HUGE hunt and retrieve drive, I'm truly blessed. Her first hunt she was shaking like a tree and whining constantly....she was jacked. Now she's had about 20 retrieves in the field and she has gotten rid of that for the most part. She sits behind/next to me quietly. She only starts shaking and whining when shots are fired and ducks hit the water. Especially If guns stand up and water swat. I can tell she definitly feeds off the hubting parties excitement level. I tried to stop this but the more I thought about it...what does it hurt? I have a dog with a huge drive who gets excited to work. She's quiet when ducks are working and in my opinion that's the most important. Her whining while the smoke clears doesnt hurt the hunt. Anyone agree/disagree? I can tell time and experience have helped her already. I will focus more time on getting her to avoid the occasional "break" at gunfire and hopefully one day she can be off a tether. Ps anyone gave training tips on the breaking issue other than the backyard or local lake throw a training bird and shoot while she stays?


Get a short lead and stake her to the ground or tie her up in the blind. If she breaks, its self critiquing, and she will only do it a few times. Word of caution of you are hunting from a boat or blind. Make sure the lead is short enough that when she reaches the end of it, she isn't able to get out of the boat first. That would end badly. It should barely be long enough to give her a little freedom of movement to watch birds.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby Tyrtruion » Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:08 am

GoldieRetriever50 wrote:She's quiet when ducks are working and in my opinion that's the most important.


I think this would be a great goal for my pup to reach by seasons end.
I've been working on "quiet" and I've seen some improvement the last 2 trips out. Great advice tho. :bow:
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby gonehuntin' » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:28 pm

Whining rarely gets better with age, but it sure can get worse. A collar will make it worse yet. Work on No Noise! Along with a strong nose pinch. If you let the dog get away with it once, he'll do it again and maybe louder. Whining in general shows a lack of discipline and determination on the owners part but on the rare occasion can be a trait with certain lines.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby GoldieRetriever50 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:50 pm

Lack of the owners discipline. Umm ok.

Ill put it this way. Watch RNT, DU, or other programs. Watch a few and u will sometimes hear the dogs whining, usually low volume. Sometimes pre shooting even. Must be those undetermined and undisciplined professional trainers they use.

Keep working on the quiet command as much as possible especially at home. There are many ways to train it. Each dog different.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby gonehuntin' » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:16 pm

GoldieRetriever50 wrote:Lack of the owners discipline. Umm ok.

Ill put it this way. Watch RNT, DU, or other programs. Watch a few and u will sometimes hear the dogs whining, usually low volume. Sometimes pre shooting even. Must be those undetermined and undisciplined professional trainers they use.

Keep working on the quiet command as much as possible especially at home. There are many ways to train it. Each dog different.


You know, I occasionally watch those, boring as many are, and I,ve watched that rash of dogs with a rash of problems I would never tolerate. To each their own, sounds like you own a whiner too.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby GoldieRetriever50 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:51 pm

Get a short lead and stake her to the ground or tie her up in the blind. If she breaks, its self critiquing, and she will only do it a few times. Word of caution of you are hunting from a boat or blind. Make sure the lead is short enough that when she reaches the end of it, she isn't able to get out of the boat first. That would end badly. It should barely be long enough to give her a little freedom of movement to watch birds.[/quote]

I've been staking her down with a very short lead and it keeps her there but she likes to have tension on it. I was thinking about using a choker collar to give her negative stimulus when she pulls against the lead. Thoughts?
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby t_baker » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:03 pm

I am no expert and will probably get beat down for this but here we go.

I have a 4 year old lab that has the most drive I have seen in a dog. He wants birds. He is game on in the blind. That said, he is a whiner and has a real case of anxiety. I personally don't do much about it. I have tried in the past with no luck. I was told by a trainer to let him be. Not to take the drive out of him. So that's what I do. After a few birds he gets much better. Hell when he starts to smell the water you can hear in him the dog box howling because he knows what is about it happen. He quiets down once we get to the ramp.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby gonehuntin' » Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:02 am

If you want to tie the dog, that's fine. It lets you enjoy the hunt and stops the creep; what it doesn't do is cure either problem. Sometimes, by correcting one problem, we get lucky and solve two. Try manually stopping the creep (heeling stick) and by reducing the excitement level you may correct the whine. You have two problems that only worsen with time and never get better without correction.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby GoldieRetriever50 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:20 pm

I added the choker collar to the lead this am instead of the previous; having it attached to the rings on her vest. She responded well and didn't keep tension on the lead. She didn't like the tension on her neck and sat well. She started whining after shots went off and I used the nose pinch with the quiet command which she knows. She got the picture and was quiet after a few pinches. It's a process but she is getting better. Still for a youngster in her 1st season to sit quiet next to me all morning and watch birds work only to whine after shots fired.....and me not being a professional trainer...ill take it and work upward from there.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby GoldieRetriever50 » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:22 pm

Ill read into using the heeling stick also. I'm open to other methods for the creep.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby B.E.Nelli » Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:30 am

Awesome man. Glad to hear that. Any improvement means you are on the right track. Just be consistent and it will eventually reap the results.
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby Tyrtruion » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:34 pm

The nose pinch... Hmmm
How hard?
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Re: Excited, anxious... Whining!!!

Postby GoldieRetriever50 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:10 am

not very. just enough to get her attention. after 2-3 consecutive pinches she started to quiet down. after the 5-6 she was done whining.
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