Need help picking a pup

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Need help picking a pup

Postby cock429eye » Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:48 am

I've been looking at pups from $400 to $1400 they all say champion bloodlines. can there really be that many champions out there. I need to know really what to look at and I seen a lot of 6 to 10 months pups was wondering if the owners have decide they weren't the dogs they thought they might get and now looking to get rid of them. Any help would be great thanks we are located in Baton Rouge la thanks again.
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby gonehuntin' » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:04 am

Another gem of a tip by Gonehunting I think is worth saving. Heres his method for picking pups

PICKING A PUPPY
You'll get a lot of conflicting views on this, but I would never buy a pup without being able to pick it myself. First, the age. Pick it no sooner that 8 weeks and it's better if the breeder holds it until 10 weeks. You can really tell a lot about them then.

You know you want a female, so that's half the battle. You've gotten some horrible advice on them though. First, they are not smarter than a male. They are equal. Not stubborn........hmmmmmmmmm. Are you married? Is your wife stubborn? I rest my case. Females are temper mental dog's to train. If you lose your patience with one, you'll end up apologizing to that dog until she decides it's time to forgive you? Tough? They can be
tougher than any male God ever created. Having said all that, I'd never own any other dog.

Before you pick the pup, you have to mark the pup. Take different color electrical ties and put a different color tie on each pup's neck. Separate the males and females. You're not interested in the males. Test only the females. They'll always fool you at this age; the females will always be ahead of the males but they'll catch up later.

Testing. Sit on the kennel floor and see which pups crawl all over you. They probably all will. Note which ones stay with you the longest and which lose interest and wander off. Now roll one over on it's back. It'll fight and squirm around. Time it and see how long is fights before it plain gives up. Record the color of tie and time. Have three puppy
bumpers with you. Test each pup alone. Throw one bumper and see if pup retrieves it. If it does, hold the pup and throw two bumpers 180 degrees from each other. Does pup bring one back and immediately leave to get the other one? Make a note of it. Don't throw the bumpers more than 10-15 feet. If it get's two, try three. Throw them like an inverted
T. One straight out, one to each side. Turn pup loose. See if it remembers all three or only two of them. Make a note. Now introduce a clip wing pigeon with it's wing's and feet taped so it can't move around. Throw the bird and see what the pup does. Does he go right out, grab it and return? Is he afraid of it? Does he ignore it? Make notes.

See what we've done? We've found out which one is the people dog. We've found out who is the most tractable (by holding it on his back). We've found out who's the most intelligent by seeing who remembers the most bird's. We've seen who loves birds. In a nutshell, that's it. Pick the highest scoring pup and make him a great gun dog.

Last part is this. Save every cent of your money and buy the pup with the greatest field trial lineage you can find. Expect to pay $800.00 to $1000.00 for him. He'll be worth it.


This is a post I did for another forum. Wish they would "sticky" it here.

All champions are not created equal. CH denotes show champion only. What you are looking for are FC and AFC in the pedigree. Those are the cream of the crop and there should be a bunch of them, probably at least 15 in a 5 gen. Pedigree. The more the merrier.

I am not familiar with the hunting retriever titles, the other guys can explain those to you.
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Need help picking a pup

Postby Duck_Popper » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:46 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Another gem of a tip by Gonehunting I think is worth saving. Heres his method for picking pups

PICKING A PUPPY
You'll get a lot of conflicting views on this, but I would never buy a pup without being able to pick it myself. First, the age. Pick it no sooner that 8 weeks and it's better if the breeder holds it until 10 weeks. You can really tell a lot about them then.

You know you want a female, so that's half the battle. You've gotten some horrible advice on them though. First, they are not smarter than a male. They are equal. Not stubborn........hmmmmmmmmm. Are you married? Is your wife stubborn? I rest my case. Females are temper mental dog's to train. If you lose your patience with one, you'll end up apologizing to that dog until she decides it's time to forgive you? Tough? They can be
tougher than any male God ever created. Having said all that, I'd never own any other dog.

Before you pick the pup, you have to mark the pup. Take different color electrical ties and put a different color tie on each pup's neck. Separate the males and females. You're not interested in the males. Test only the females. They'll always fool you at this age; the females will always be ahead of the males but they'll catch up later.

Testing. Sit on the kennel floor and see which pups crawl all over you. They probably all will. Note which ones stay with you the longest and which lose interest and wander off. Now roll one over on it's back. It'll fight and squirm around. Time it and see how long is fights before it plain gives up. Record the color of tie and time. Have three puppy
bumpers with you. Test each pup alone. Throw one bumper and see if pup retrieves it. If it does, hold the pup and throw two bumpers 180 degrees from each other. Does pup bring one back and immediately leave to get the other one? Make a note of it. Don't throw the bumpers more than 10-15 feet. If it get's two, try three. Throw them like an inverted
T. One straight out, one to each side. Turn pup loose. See if it remembers all three or only two of them. Make a note. Now introduce a clip wing pigeon with it's wing's and feet taped so it can't move around. Throw the bird and see what the pup does. Does he go right out, grab it and return? Is he afraid of it? Does he ignore it? Make notes.

See what we've done? We've found out which one is the people dog. We've found out who is the most tractable (by holding it on his back). We've found out who's the most intelligent by seeing who remembers the most bird's. We've seen who loves birds. In a nutshell, that's it. Pick the highest scoring pup and make him a great gun dog.

Last part is this. Save every cent of your money and buy the pup with the greatest field trial lineage you can find. Expect to pay $800.00 to $1000.00 for him. He'll be worth it.


This is a post I did for another forum. Wish they would "sticky" it here.

All champions are not created equal. CH denotes show champion only. What you are looking for are FC and AFC in the pedigree. Those are the cream of the crop and there should be a bunch of them, probably at least 15 in a 5 gen. Pedigree. The more the merrier.

I am not familiar with the hunting retriever titles, the other guys can explain those to you.


Without a doubt this should be stickied
Duck Popper: Congrats man and guess you need to change your name to "Duck Poppa"

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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Dakota Creek » Sat Nov 30, 2013 8:30 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:I am not familiar with the hunting retriever titles, the other guys can explain those to you.


Top HT titles -

NAHRA titles - GMHRCH, GMHR, MHR (before the dog's name)

HRC titles - GRHRCH, HRCH (before the dog's name)

AKC / CKC titles - MH (after the dog's name)

Field trial titles -

AKC field trial titles - NFC, NAFC, FC, AFC (before the dog's name)

CKC field trial titles - NFTCH, NAFTCH, FTCH, AFTCH (before the dog's name)
GMHR-III Dakota Creek's Royal Navigator MH (AKC & CKC)
MHR Pine Acre's Dakota Sand Creek SH WCI
Dakota Creek's Royal Gem
Dakota Creek's Long Shot
Dakota Creek's Wreaking Havoc
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Anoldhuntersc » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:02 pm

Just a little more.
Hunting Title Explanations

What do all the titles mean?

Below is an overview of just some of the titles you may see in Hunting Lab Pedigree Database.

NOTE: This is a BRIEF overview of the titles. After each explanation a link will be introduced to help you find out more detailed information about the titles.

There are 6 major categories of titles within this database.

AKC Field Trials
AKC Hunt Tests
NAHRA Hunt Tests
UKC Hunt Tests
ALPA Titles (pointing lab)
Other Titles
If you want me to add more HUNTING titles, contact me & I will be happy to add them to this page.

American Kennel Club (Field Trials) Title Explanations

Field trials are much different then hunt test in that all the dogs are competing against each other in a test. (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th place & JAMs are awarded.)

There are 2 categories of Field Trials OPEN & AMATEUR

OPEN Titles

NFC - National Field Champion

FC - Field Champion

AMATEUR Titles

NAFC - National Amateur Field Champion

AFC - Amateur Field Champion

Non-Titles, but will see at the end of names at times

QAA or *** - Qualified - All - Age -- A dog has passed enough qualifying (and has points) to compete in the OPEN or AMATEUR Trials

To Find out more about the AKC Field Trials please Visit American Kennel Club

American Kennel Club (Hunt Test) Title Explanations

MNH - Master National Hunter -- have to pass the Master National 3 times to earn title. If a number preceeds the title (MNH4 or MNH5) that particular dog passed the National the # of times.

MH - Master Hunter -- Top level AKC title

SH -- Senior Hunter -- Intermediate Level Hunt Test

JH -- Junior Hunter -- Entry level Hunt test

Note: Some dog will run the Master National & you may see this title (MNR). This is a major accomplishment and is awarded by the Master National Retriever Club to dogs that have passed the Master National 2 times. This is a "club" title and not part of a dog's pedigree. For more inforamtion please visit www.masternational.com

If you want to find out more about the American Kennel Club Hunt tests? Visit American Kennel Club



North American Hunting Retriever Association Field Test Title Explanations

GMHR - Master Hunting Retriever --Top level Field Test

MHR - Master Hunting Retriever --Senior level Field Test

WR -- Working Retriever -- Intermediate Level Field Test

SR -- Started Retriever -- Beginner level Field test

If you want to find out more about the American Kennel Club Hunt tests? Visit NAHRA web site

United Kennel Club (Hunting Retriever Club) Title Explanations

UKC Bases has a points based system. Along with specific levels of tests. This is why you may see "Honorable 500 points club" at the top of some dog's pedigree page.

GRHRCH - Grand Hunting Retriever Champion -- Top level UKC/HRC level title

HRCH - Hunting Retriever Champion -- Finished Level Hunt test

HR -- Hunting Retriever -- Seasoned Level Hunt Test

SHR -- Started Hunting Retriever -- Started level Hunt test

What to find out more about the United Kennel Club (Hunting Retriever club)

Visit United Kennel Club OR Hunting Retriever Club

American Pointing Labrador Assoc. (APLA titles)

CP or CPR - Certified Pointing Retriever

IPR or APR - Advanced Pointing Retriever

MPR - Master Pointing Retriever

GMPR - Grand Master Pointing Retriever

Visit American Pointing Labrador Assoc

Other Titles you may see

CNFC - Canadian National Field Champion

CFC - Canadian Field Champion

FTCH - Field Trial Champion (this is a UK title)
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Anoldhuntersc » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Contact local hunting retriever club. They are full of great dogs and people that love to work them. They have club days ,run hunt test,have training days etc. can offer great info on different dogs. Here is a link to Baton Rouge club.
http://www.arhrc.org/
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Dakota Creek » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:20 am

Good explanation Anoldhuntersc ..... Thanks for adding in the APLA titles and I'll just add a little more ......

Anoldhuntersc wrote:
Re: Field Trials -
QAA or *** - Qualified - All - Age -- A dog has passed enough qualifying (and has points) to compete in the OPEN or AMATEUR Trials
The Canadian Kennel also has a QFTR title which is listed after a dog's name like the QAA but signifies that the dog has earned 10 points (including a win) running Qualifying stakes.

Re: North American Hunting Retriever Association Field Test Title Explanations - GMHR - Master Hunting Retriever --Top level Field Test
Nope as I started above the top NAHRA title is the GMHRCH title .... this is a dog who has earned 1000 pts running NAHRA senior tests meaning approx. 50 passes at the senior (master) level. I say approx because an Invitational pass is double the points of a regular weekend senior pass. Behind an MHR, GMHR or GMHRCH title a -I, -II, -III can be noted which designates the number of Invitational passes this dog has. A GMHR title is awarded to a dog who has achieved 300 points running NAHRA senior tests (approx 15 tests .... remember those potential Invitational passes!)

FTCH - Field Trial Champion (this is a UK title) The FTCH, NFTCH, AFTCH and NAFTCH titles are also used by the CKC - Canadian Kennel Club.
GMHR-III Dakota Creek's Royal Navigator MH (AKC & CKC)
MHR Pine Acre's Dakota Sand Creek SH WCI
Dakota Creek's Royal Gem
Dakota Creek's Long Shot
Dakota Creek's Wreaking Havoc
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Dakota Creek » Sun Dec 01, 2013 6:24 am

Anoldhuntersc wrote:Contact local hunting retriever club. They are full of great dogs and people that love to work them. They have club days ,run hunt test,have training days etc. can offer great info on different dogs. Here is a link to Baton Rouge club.
http://www.arhrc.org/


^^^^^ This!

I don't think there is anything better - whether you are looking to run tests or strictly hunt with your dog - the club members can provide a tremendous amount of training information and opportunities as you start out with your new pup!
GMHR-III Dakota Creek's Royal Navigator MH (AKC & CKC)
MHR Pine Acre's Dakota Sand Creek SH WCI
Dakota Creek's Royal Gem
Dakota Creek's Long Shot
Dakota Creek's Wreaking Havoc
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby tenfingergrip » Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:59 am

I didn't read all the advice above, but what I did read is good advice. One more thing I don't think was mentioned but is probably self evident......The first thing you need to do when inquiring about a pup or litter, demand that you are provided with a copy of the sire and dam's official pedigrees. Hopefully they will be the 5 generation AKC one's. Anything past 5 generations will probably not be pertinent but you can go online and search the 5th generation back and just see what their lineage looks like.
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby gonehuntin' » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:22 am

Anoldhuntersc wrote:
QAA or *** - Qualified - All - Age -- A dog has passed enough qualifying (and has points) to compete in the OPEN or AMATEUR Trials


FTCH - Field Trial Champion (this is a UK title)


This part isn't quite right. ANY dog can compete in ab Open or Amateur, but only dogs with Qual. Wins oe Am. and Open placements can compete in a Limited or a Special stake.
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby gonehuntin' » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:50 am

Wow, anoldhunter really did a great job posting those. I have a complaint (not unusual, right? :lol3: ), but being a miserable old bastard, seems to me there are just to damned many different titles out there. They seem to lessen their importance because there are so many of them. Seems to me there should be one organization controlling it all and one set of titles, one for hunting dogs, one for field trial dogs. Then they'd have meaning. But, I'm an old guy that the world is passing by. Gettin' too damn complicated.

I was at an Am. Nat. at McCall I'd. once when Charlie Hill came to the line with Wanapun Dart's Dandy (Wanapun was Eddie Bauer's kennel). They announce the dog's titles at the first series of every national as the handler and dog come to line. The announcer said: Coming to line now, number (whatever), National Field Champion, Field Champion, National Amateur Field Champion, Amateur Field Champion, Canadian National Field Champion, Canadian Field Champion, Canadian National Amateur Field Champion, Canadian Amateur Field Champion, Wanapun Dart's Dandy. She was the only dog at the time to win the triple crown. The guy sitting next to me looked at me and said "I guess that just about says it all". Indeed it did.
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Dakota Creek » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:13 pm

tenfingergrip wrote:I didn't read all the advice above, but what I did read is good advice. One more thing I don't think was mentioned but is probably self evident......The first thing you need to do when inquiring about a pup or litter, demand that you are provided with a copy of the sire and dam's official pedigrees. Hopefully they will be the 5 generation AKC one's. Anything past 5 generations will probably not be pertinent but you can go online and search the 5th generation back and just see what their lineage looks like.


The OP didn't mention but as well as the pedigrees information tenfingergrip mentions above, if you are going to spend some $$$ on a pup .... but also make sure the sire and dam have health clearances .... hips, eyes, elbows at a minimum. Some don't seem to care, but personally as well as these clearances I would want to know the CNM and EIC status of the parents.
GMHR-III Dakota Creek's Royal Navigator MH (AKC & CKC)
MHR Pine Acre's Dakota Sand Creek SH WCI
Dakota Creek's Royal Gem
Dakota Creek's Long Shot
Dakota Creek's Wreaking Havoc
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby CatSquirrel » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:06 pm

Since you're in Baton Rouge.....

Amite River HRC is an old and very well established hunt test club in the Baton Rouge area. They meet the first (or second?) Wednesday every month at the Bass Pro in Denham Springs. It's only $25 a year to join, and you will meet some really nice people who can help you with training or even hunt tests if you decide to run them. Although I don't run hunt tests anymore, I've been a member of Amite for about 15 years now and maintain my membership because of the friendships I've made.

If you're interested in seeing some of the top field trial dogs in the country, South Louisiana Retriever Club will be hosting a full field trial down in the Bonnet Carre Spillway next weekend. There, you can watch some of the field trial dogs you will see in some of the pedigrees you look at.

The field trial will begin at 8am Friday morning and will conclude Sunday. I'll be there working and running my dog, you're welcome to PM me your number and I'll be glad to meet you there to explain things and briefly show you the ropes. I will be busy, but don't mind explaining what's going on.

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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Minneguy » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:17 pm

gonehuntin' wrote:Another gem of a tip by Gonehunting I think is worth saving. Heres his method for picking pups

PICKING A PUPPY
You'll get a lot of conflicting views on this, but I would never buy a pup without being able to pick it myself. First, the age. Pick it no sooner that 8 weeks and it's better if the breeder holds it until 10 weeks. You can really tell a lot about them then.

You know you want a female, so that's half the battle. You've gotten some horrible advice on them though. First, they are not smarter than a male. They are equal. Not stubborn........hmmmmmmmmm. Are you married? Is your wife stubborn? I rest my case. Females are temper mental dog's to train. If you lose your patience with one, you'll end up apologizing to that dog until she decides it's time to forgive you? Tough? They can be
tougher than any male God ever created. Having said all that, I'd never own any other dog.

Before you pick the pup, you have to mark the pup. Take different color electrical ties and put a different color tie on each pup's neck. Separate the males and females. You're not interested in the males. Test only the females. They'll always fool you at this age; the females will always be ahead of the males but they'll catch up later.

Testing. Sit on the kennel floor and see which pups crawl all over you. They probably all will. Note which ones stay with you the longest and which lose interest and wander off. Now roll one over on it's back. It'll fight and squirm around. Time it and see how long is fights before it plain gives up. Record the color of tie and time. Have three puppy
bumpers with you. Test each pup alone. Throw one bumper and see if pup retrieves it. If it does, hold the pup and throw two bumpers 180 degrees from each other. Does pup bring one back and immediately leave to get the other one? Make a note of it. Don't throw the bumpers more than 10-15 feet. If it get's two, try three. Throw them like an inverted
T. One straight out, one to each side. Turn pup loose. See if it remembers all three or only two of them. Make a note. Now introduce a clip wing pigeon with it's wing's and feet taped so it can't move around. Throw the bird and see what the pup does. Does he go right out, grab it and return? Is he afraid of it? Does he ignore it? Make notes.

See what we've done? We've found out which one is the people dog. We've found out who is the most tractable (by holding it on his back). We've found out who's the most intelligent by seeing who remembers the most bird's. We've seen who loves birds. In a nutshell, that's it. Pick the highest scoring pup and make him a great gun dog.

Last part is this. Save every cent of your money and buy the pup with the greatest field trial lineage you can find. Expect to pay $800.00 to $1000.00 for him. He'll be worth it.


This is a post I did for another forum. Wish they would "sticky" it here.

All champions are not created equal. CH denotes show champion only. What you are looking for are FC and AFC in the pedigree. Those are the cream of the crop and there should be a bunch of them, probably at least 15 in a 5 gen. Pedigree. The more the merrier.

I am not familiar with the hunting retriever titles, the other guys can explain those to you.

Literally the process my dad raise me with! Great advice, and works very well. Never had a dog turn out to be bad either in the house or in the field


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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby cock429eye » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:20 am

Holy-cow I never had a thought I would get so much info. From that post all I can say is thanks and I will be use that info. In the next month. One more question should I consider a starter dog or go for the pup with the best pedigree. Thanks again !!!!!!
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby labsforme » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:00 pm

You could go either way ,started or best bred pup. The first thing is money and time. If you look at started find out why they are selling it.How much training it has.Health certs too on pup and parents.Have them show you in a field situation what the dog can do.Housebroke? etc. If you don't have as deep pockets initially get a puppy from the best bred litter you can afford.Catsquirrel is knowledgable,except he likes brown. :) I have a litter on the RTF classifieds that has probably some of the best producing dogs of all time close up. If you want local there are some very good dogs in La.

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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Dakota Creek » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:17 pm

labsforme wrote:You could go either way ,started or best bred pup. The first thing is money and time. If you look at started find out why they are selling it.How much training it has.Health certs too on pup and parents.Have them show you in a field situation what the dog can do.Housebroke? etc. If you don't have as deep pockets initially get a puppy from the best bred litter you can afford.G


X's 2

And if you decide to go for the "puppy from the best bred litter you can afford" .... Just remember the health clearances! :thumbsup:
GMHR-III Dakota Creek's Royal Navigator MH (AKC & CKC)
MHR Pine Acre's Dakota Sand Creek SH WCI
Dakota Creek's Royal Gem
Dakota Creek's Long Shot
Dakota Creek's Wreaking Havoc
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Re: Need help picking a pup

Postby Rutin » Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:43 pm

All SOLID advice..... if your looking for a lab and plan on hunting cold weather..... make sure the parents are proven in those temps. I SWEAR my trainer has me convinced that its being breed out of labs. These dogs have super high titles but cant take cold water. I see more and more forum topics about labs that wont retrieve in cold water to the point where I believe its getting breed out of them they are fall and spring test dogs! Being in LA I'm sure its not absolutely bitter cold but if you plan to travel, find a dog with parents that are proven. My 2 cents plus everything else above!
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