Complete meat dog program?

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Complete meat dog program?

Postby wraithen » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:16 am

I'm picking up a pup in April and I'm trying to get my ducks all in a row. forgive me if this has already been covered. I've looked at the top of the page of training programs and did a few searches but I'm still confused. I want a meat dog program that is complete and I know you guys are against a Le carte program picking but most programs either have huge holes in certain areas or the author wants to sell several bundles of differing topics. I especially don't understand Hillman's ordering system. what would you guys recommend for a first timer with a Chesapeake? I have absolutely no desire to do any trials or tests with this dog. Shame on me I know. I'm just trying to figure out a great program without dropping a grand buying everyone's stuff to compare it to. I have watched Chris Akin's duck dog basics but I do see a ton of empty spaces. any help would be greatly appeciated.
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby Duckdon » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:43 am

No reason not to have a top of the line, trained dog and use it to hunt with. I don't think anyone has a fool proof, zero holes program. One thing I do know, for me, is that some trainers speak my language and some don't. I understand some guys methods better than others.
I would have suggested Chris Akin's stuff for basic training of a meat dog but you already have holes in it. Most guys feel you need to pick one training method and stick with it. Me to, if your new and have no workable background in training.
Spend the grand..........heck, if you don't spend it on the dog it will just go to health care. I am sure I have that much spent multiple Grand's over time but if your new to training I would advise getting one of the more complete programs and learning that first.
Also, join a local training club....invaluable and very cheap. Attend as many training seminars as you can.................opps, there goes another $$$Grand$$$. Good Luck. Don
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby wraithen » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:06 am

Thanks Don. it's more of the up front cost of buying a library that will get me murdered. I own a Mastiff with some health issues so believe me when I say that I understand being fully prepared to spend a crappy ton of money on on a new family member. Akin's training style works for me but there's very little troubleshooting with his first video. Maybe getting his second will help? I guess I'm just looking for more input Johnny 5.
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:48 am

Sir I think you're being a bit over-dramatic in your evaluation of cost. In addition, if it's your first dog...how do you know all about the holes?

Honestly I feel a dog that has equal skills to that of an AKC Senior Hunter would make an ideal meat dog in addition to well-healed retriever.

If you can find a 'hunting training group' which helps you create a good, serviceable meat dog and doesn't also run tests...let me know. There ain't many.
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby wraithen » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:01 pm

You may have have a point HNT. It's just a bit overwhelming when the first discovered is 1q0 and then the FF part is 80 and the one that teaches a bunch of other drills is another 80. If you do that for four different programs it adds up. The "holes" I've seen is there isn't much in the way of troubleshooting and I don't see many of the dogs he shows being slow or stubborn. I'm new so I'm expecting quite a few issues from not knowing better. I do agree that more training is better so the dog and I can work as a team for blinds and casting and such but I didn't want to start out with all of that in mind. I'll have 18 months is to work with this dog before hunting but I doubt I will get that far in that amount of time. If I get a dog to masters level in 2 years I'll make my own training videos just for newbies lol.
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby dogyak » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:36 pm

Just get Fowl Dogs . You get the hole program ( 3 DVD'S) for around 75 . Also if you have problems , you can call the guy who leads you thru the program . As others said , a retriever club will be one of the best things you can do too lead you thru those bumps . No reason not too have a well train dog beyond just a meat dog
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby FowlPwrcat » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:41 pm

No such thing. A complete dog is a complete dog. No diff between a meat dog program and mike lardy. Unless you pick the meat dog program off of some dude at Walmart who made it himself...
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby FowlPwrcat » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:49 pm

Train for a jr and you'll have a meat dog that will get ducks on the table. Train for a sr and you'll have a meat dog that the people you hunt with drool over. Train for MH and people won't know what happened when the awesomeness of your dog is released. JMO. I have a SR dog and am very happy with the performance level. It's all there for my dog to get better at hunting, not testing. So my meat dog happens to have some titles
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby dogyak » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:55 pm

FowlPwrcat wrote:No such thing. A complete dog is a complete dog. No diff between a meat dog program and mike lardy. Unless you pick the meat dog program off of some dude at Walmart who made it himself...
I think a lot of guys think a meat dog is a dog that will just get what they shot , no doubles or triple's . What the dog does not see , throw a rock in that direction . If they would just get a program and a club , they would forget that meat dog stuff .
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Re: Complete meat dog program?

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:48 pm

wraithen wrote:You may have have a point HNT. It's just a bit overwhelming when the first discovered is 1q0 and then the FF part is 80 and the one that teaches a bunch of other drills is another 80. If you do that for four different programs it adds up. The "holes" I've seen is there isn't much in the way of troubleshooting and I don't see many of the dogs he shows being slow or stubborn. I'm new so I'm expecting quite a few issues from not knowing better. I do agree that more training is better so the dog and I can work as a team for blinds and casting and such but I didn't want to start out with all of that in mind. I'll have 18 months is to work with this dog before hunting but I doubt I will get that far in that amount of time. If I get a dog to masters level in 2 years I'll make my own training videos just for newbies lol.


I hear ya. They have lotsa holes but not typically in terms of drills and progression but rather the stuff that counts, otherwise. I see a lot of 'program posts' whereby Joe is following the DVD almost like assembly instructions and gets so caught up in the technical, can't see the forest for the trees.

It's like some folks stop 'thinking' and thinking/observation is your best friend. Along with working FOR your dog versus the notion it is working for you. I think this is true the first two years and then the relationship does bring expectation of the dogs performance and skills.

As has been said - there is no better way to learn than with experienced handlers. Reading a dog does not come natural to everyone but is critical.

I would be thrilled at 1 year to have a reliably obedient pup whose response to SIT, HERE and SIT where solid even in the face of mighty distractions. A pup who reliably delivered a bird TO HAND without fuss and poor mouth habits, marked well at sit to 150 yards and was happy and confident as hell every time a dead or live bird was presented. Also a pup that had been exposed and understood pressure via several different methods.
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