German shorthair

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German shorthair

Postby areyoujelen » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:32 pm

I have been thinking on getting a dog for several years now and am thinking about getting one this year. I like labs and chessies but I have a soft spot for German shorthairs. My dad had GSPs and they were the best dogs and most loving he ever had. They used to sleep outside his window. He built them a pin and they didn't like being that far away from him so the chewed through the wire. But back to my question will they be okay for duck hunting? I have heard of lots of people using them without trouble but I just wanted some more input. I live in Mississippi so it isn't so cold here. I figured with a vest they could handle it fine but like I said I wanted some more input. Thanks for any input!


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Re: German shorthair

Postby QAHONKER » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:25 am

I run one here in md, its prolly about the same temperature just gotta get em strait that they are retrieving and not pointing lol its always nice having someone ask about mine since he is not the norm in goose hunting circles
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Re: German shorthair

Postby Griffdom » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:47 am

They can be excellent duck hunters, especially in your more moderate temps. Just be sure to get one from proven/tested NAVHDA lines or from the German system. That is the best advice I can give you. You will be more likely to get one that comes with a strong desire to retrieve than if you went with and AKC field champion pedigree pup. Trust me on this one. You'll pay a little more, but likely get what your after. PM me with questions of breeders or kennels if interested.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby wpevey » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:03 pm

I second pretty much everything griff dom just said. I have two I duck hunt with in SE Louisiana and they do fine.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby j.digiacomo » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:10 pm

no issues with mine. i mostly duck hunt in MD. hunted single digits with a vest this year. agree with the NAVHDA line comment, stay away from the AKC junk. actually planning a breeding this spring with one of my guys. NAVHDA UT I headed to the invitational this fall. PM me if you'd like more info.

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Re: German shorthair

Postby HNTFSH » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:43 pm

j.digiacomo wrote:...stay away from the AKC junk.


Why? Because they test retrieving and handling skills? :lol3:

I like NAVHDA tests but coming back without a duck in the search test isn't my style.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby j.digiacomo » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:55 pm

Let me clarify... AKC/show ring shorthair junk. The AKC walking hunt tests for GSPs are all field work, and retrieves are sloppy at best. There isn't a water portion at all. If anything, the NAVHDA test is more stringent on the field search and obedience - it's judged throughout on the UT test.

I agree with you on the duck search and not finding a duck. What really busts my chaps is when they come up with a duck in the first few minutes then have to go back into search mode for no reason... that's just messed up. Having to resend on an empty pond after a successful retrieve with no other opportunity to produce is a waste of time.

Anywho - GSP's do just fine on ducks for me :D
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Re: German shorthair

Postby HNTFSH » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:43 pm

j.digiacomo wrote:Let me clarify... AKC/show ring shorthair junk. The AKC walking hunt tests for GSPs are all field work, and retrieves are sloppy at best. There isn't a water portion at all. If anything, the NAVHDA test is more stringent on the field search and obedience - it's judged throughout on the UT test.

I agree with you on the duck search and not finding a duck. What really busts my chaps is when they come up with a duck in the first few minutes then have to go back into search mode for no reason... that's just messed up. Having to resend on an empty pond after a successful retrieve with no other opportunity to produce is a waste of time.

Anywho - GSP's do just fine on ducks for me :D


LOL..I hear ya! That water search isn't right. But now that GSP can run AKC retrievers tests it's a game changer. Haven't seen one run one yet but I welcome the entries all the same. Be fun to watch.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby Griffdom » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:36 pm

There is a fetch portion of the water work that is not the duck search. it is simple, but does exist. I think the NAVHDA duck search is often misunderstood. It has nothing to do with retrieving. It is more about a dogs willingness to search with a passion and with purpose a body of water for a duck on a single command. It is more a measure of desire than about fetching. More about the search than retrieving. This type of dog is valuable in game recovery when you and a buddy knock down 3 or 4 ducks and you have a cripple or two that in the commotion you didn't see swim up into the reads or some other cover and keeps going.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:12 am

Griffdom wrote:There is a fetch portion of the water work that is not the duck search. it is simple, but does exist. I think the NAVHDA duck search is often misunderstood. It has nothing to do with retrieving. It is more about a dogs willingness to search with a passion and with purpose a body of water for a duck on a single command. It is more a measure of desire than about fetching. More about the search than retrieving. This type of dog is valuable in game recovery when you and a buddy knock down 3 or 4 ducks and you have a cripple or two that in the commotion you didn't see swim up into the reads or some other cover and keeps going.


Griff - I understand the mechanics of the test. What I don't agree with is the non-requirement to bring back the duck it 'sought' and/or sending of the dog back out (without game to find) if it successfully completes the 1st task in too short a time frame.

I'll train search in a Lab early and often but there is always a bird and they must bring it back. It just gets gradually more difficult for the dog. Perseverance without productivity is a wash. It's UT not NA.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:57 am

The Invitational should be fun. Congrats!

Here's the test requirement link and below the breeds added. Note the 'miniature poodle' comes on board this year in case you're thinking that an addition to your kennel. lol

http://images.akc.org/pdf/rulebooks/RHTRET.pdf
Retriever Hunting Tests
Eligible Breeds

All dogs six months of age or older from the following breeds are eligible to participate in Retriever Hunting Tests:
AKC Recognized and FSS Breeds

American Water Spaniels (effective 4/1/11)
Barbet (effective 9/1/12)
Boykin Spaniels (effective 12/1/11)
Chesapeake Retrievers
Curly-Coated Retrievers
Drentsche Patrijshond (Drent) (effective 9/1/12)
Flat-Coated Retrievers
German Shorthaired Pointer (effective 9/1/11)
German Wirehaired Pointer (effective 9/1/11)
Golden Retrievers
Irish Water Spaniels
Labrador Retrievers
Miniature Poodles (effective 1/1/14)
Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers
Spinone Italiano (effective 7/1/11)
Standard Poodles
Vizsla (effective 9/1/11)
Weimaraner (effective 9/1/11)
Wirehaired Pointing Griffon (effective 7/1/11)
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Re: German shorthair

Postby Griffdom » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:08 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
Griffdom wrote:There is a fetch portion of the water work that is not the duck search. it is simple, but does exist. I think the NAVHDA duck search is often misunderstood. It has nothing to do with retrieving. It is more about a dogs willingness to search with a passion and with purpose a body of water for a duck on a single command. It is more a measure of desire than about fetching. More about the search than retrieving. This type of dog is valuable in game recovery when you and a buddy knock down 3 or 4 ducks and you have a cripple or two that in the commotion you didn't see swim up into the reads or some other cover and keeps going.


Griff - I understand the mechanics of the test. What I don't agree with is the non-requirement to bring back the duck it 'sought' and/or sending of the dog back out (without game to find) if it successfully completes the 1st task in too short a time frame.

I'll train search in a Lab early and often but there is always a bird and they must bring it back. It just gets gradually more difficult for the dog. Perseverance without productivity is a wash. It's UT not NA.


I trust you know the mechanics of the test well, but I am not so sure you understand its intended purpose. If you did you wouldn't wonder why the dog would be resent if it found the duck too soon. The reason is because the purpose of the test is not to measure retrieving ability at all, although they can be docked on retrieving if they find the duck and don't retrieve it promptly. Plenty of other parts (drag/track, Upland Portion, etc.) of the UT test measure retrieving ability. The purpose of the duck search is to measure the dogs drive and desire to search for the game. If the dog gets an easy duck and finds it quickly then the opportunity to measure the dogs search is eliminated. That is why the dog is resent without the duck to measure search and desire/drive. The dog can not find the duck and get a perfect score if they demonstrate a fiery passion and desire to make contact with game. Does that help?

In training for the duck search a person would generally always want the dog to be successful (as you do) to build this desire and drive needed for the test.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:42 pm

Griffdom wrote:I trust you know the mechanics of the test well, but I am not so sure you understand its intended purpose. If you did you wouldn't wonder why the dog would be resent if it found the duck too soon. The reason is because the purpose of the test is not to measure retrieving ability at all, although they can be docked on retrieving if they find the duck and don't retrieve it promptly. Plenty of other parts (drag/track, Upland Portion, etc.) of the UT test measure retrieving ability. The purpose of the duck search is to measure the dogs drive and desire to search for the game. If the dog gets an easy duck and finds it quickly then the opportunity to measure the dogs search is eliminated. That is why the dog is resent without the duck to measure search and desire/drive. The dog can not find the duck and get a perfect score if they demonstrate a fiery passion and desire to make contact with game. Does that help?

In training for the duck search a person would generally always want the dog to be successful (as you do) to build this desire and drive needed for the test.


Griff - thanks. I understand the intent I just don't agree with it. The test should be roughly the same bird for all dogs and sent from the same spot. It's a hobbled duck. Advantage/disadvantage between dogs isn't that great. Make the search the search you want to see. If search stands alone without other performance considerations for the versatile dog - why use a duck at all?
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Re: German shorthair

Postby FFT » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:18 pm

Correct me if im wrong, but the test has been explained to me as 'the dog has been given a command, it should understand the command and enter the water on his own will and begin a search without requiring commands from the handler'. The purpouse of the duck, in a german system, is to observe the dog after the search and during the retrieve. If the dog doesnt complete the retrieve it may be disqualified or marked down for that portion.

Reason being, in germany your dog must deliver game to hand with only one soft spoken command or it may not be considered passing and therefore unfit as a registered hunting dog. A dog who has passed the test may be required for the hunting season, similar to a license thats issued to the hunter. Sent from my SCH-I415 using Tapatalk 2
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Re: German shorthair

Postby Griffdom » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:22 pm

FFT wrote:Correct me if im wrong, but the test has been explained to me as 'the dog has been given a command, it should understand the command and enter the water on his own will and begin a search without requiring commands from the handler'. The purpouse of the duck, in a german system, is to observe the dog after the search and during the retrieve. If the dog doesnt complete the retrieve it may be disqualified or marked down for that portion.

Reason being, in germany your dog must deliver game to hand with only one soft spoken command or it may not be considered passing and therefore unfit as a registered hunting dog. A dog who has passed the test may be required for the hunting season, similar to a license thats issued to the hunter. Sent from my SCH-I415 using Tapatalk 2


That is the way I understand it too. NAVHDA was tailored from the German System. There are some miner differences when it comes to this portion of this portion of the test, but pretty similar I understand.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby Griffdom » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:25 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
Griffdom wrote:I trust you know the mechanics of the test well, but I am not so sure you understand its intended purpose. If you did you wouldn't wonder why the dog would be resent if it found the duck too soon. The reason is because the purpose of the test is not to measure retrieving ability at all, although they can be docked on retrieving if they find the duck and don't retrieve it promptly. Plenty of other parts (drag/track, Upland Portion, etc.) of the UT test measure retrieving ability. The purpose of the duck search is to measure the dogs drive and desire to search for the game. If the dog gets an easy duck and finds it quickly then the opportunity to measure the dogs search is eliminated. That is why the dog is resent without the duck to measure search and desire/drive. The dog can not find the duck and get a perfect score if they demonstrate a fiery passion and desire to make contact with game. Does that help?

In training for the duck search a person would generally always want the dog to be successful (as you do) to build this desire and drive needed for the test.


Griff - thanks. I understand the intent I just don't agree with it. The test should be roughly the same bird for all dogs and sent from the same spot. It's a hobbled duck. Advantage/disadvantage between dogs isn't that great. Make the search the search you want to see. If search stands alone without other performance considerations for the versatile dog - why use a duck at all?


You do make a good point about having a duck at all. Can't answer that question. Obviously, if they find it, it must be retrieved to hand.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:31 pm

That's what befuddles me.

If not required to retrieve the bird but required to show work ethic and perseverance in search...wouldn't a be a more fair test amongst all dogs to salt the search area with a bird but leave none to be found? At that point they keep working or give up. Hence: test search. Eliminate the chance of good Rover finding it too damned quick and being sent back for 'nothing'.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby FFT » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:54 pm

The german testing system is not designed around fairness to dogs, its designed around fairness to game. If your dog is unable to meet the challenge, well you simply wont be hunting over 'rover'. The system is there to ensure that when a dog is sent to recover game the dog can do exactly so.

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Re: German shorthair

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:53 pm

FFT wrote:The german testing system is not designed around fairness to dogs, its designed around fairness to game. If your dog is unable to meet the challenge, well you simply wont be hunting over 'rover'. The system is there to ensure that when a dog is sent to recover game the dog can do exactly so.

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Sounds reasonable!
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Re: German shorthair

Postby Tanner01 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:38 pm

I run my girl in NAVHDA and AKC. Her mother has a JHR as well as a MH. Father has VC as well as MH and RD.
My dog is less than 2 years old and has maximum score in NA and UPT and earned retriever dog title (RD). She has her senior title (SH). Had my doubts about duck hunting and she turned out to be pretty great. When she gets cold I strip her down dry her off and if need be turn on the heater. Last couple of days of the season I took my jacket off to make sure she was warm enough. The dog is running blinds with hand signals and we will be testing her this summer in retriever tests.
I love the versitale nature of these dogs. She will do the duck search on her own if need be or respond to the whistle for cmds. Both have their merits.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby FFT » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:13 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
Sounds reasonable!

Ya know i said the same thing. I was volunteering at a test the day before putting my dog through. I watched 3 of 4 dogs fail at the water work. The week before was the same ratio. I was beyond nervous having spent the previous 18 months preparing the dog for the test.

I voiced my concern to an apprentice judge. He took the time to explain the entire test program. Its very interesting to say the least.

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Re: German shorthair

Postby 1448jonboat » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:18 pm

You can also take a look at the NADKC (Deutsch Kurzhaar) club, which follows the German testing system. My dog is a NADKC dog and I recently ran him through the testing system and is was a great experience. He ran the Solms and VGP with the NADKC club and ran his VJP with the DD (Draathaar Club).

I'm very happy with my dog's performance in waterfowl hunting. His desire and nose are great and responds well to hand signals, although one drawback is I wouldn't want to hunt him in a very cold climate. Kurzhaars (German shorthairs) don't stay nearly as warm as the average lab. It's nice being able to have a dog that can waterfowl one week and go quail hunting the next. My dog is also trained to blood track (as part of the VGP), so I bring him along deer hunting in case I need to track wounded game.

Cedar ducks_web.jpg
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Re: German shorthair

Postby Griffdom » Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:58 pm

1448jonboat wrote:You can also take a look at the NADKC (Deutsch Kurzhaar) club, which follows the German testing system. My dog is a NADKC dog and I recently ran him through the testing system and is was a great experience. He ran the Solms and VGP with the NADKC club and ran his VJP with the DD (Draathaar Club).

I'm very happy with my dog's performance in waterfowl hunting. His desire and nose are great and responds well to hand signals, although one drawback is I wouldn't want to hunt him in a very cold climate. Kurzhaars (German shorthairs) don't stay nearly as warm as the average lab. It's nice being able to have a dog that can waterfowl one week and go quail hunting the next. My dog is also trained to blood track (as part of the VGP), so I bring him along deer hunting in case I need to track wounded game.

Cedar ducks_web.jpg


Great looking DK you have there. How much does he weigh?
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Re: German shorthair

Postby 1448jonboat » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:04 pm

Thanks. He's on the small side for a DK. He usually weighs about 58 lbs.
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Re: German shorthair

Postby wpevey » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:56 pm

That's a good looking DK. My female is out of DK lines. All European lines, mostly Serbian. She is about 70lbs.
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