new pup

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new pup

Postby duck killer » Fri Aug 29, 2003 10:03 pm

hey guys im new on this sight whats up. anyways i got a question for you about my new pup he's 9 months old and when i take him to the field to train with pigeons he runs off and eats the damn things. with the bumper or the deadfowl decoy ofcourse he brings it right back. my concern is im hunting out of a boat blind hopefully he wont try and swim off with a duck in his mouth and try and eat that. id hate to have to shoot him for eating my trophy 3 curl mallard.
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Postby dwayne » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:27 pm

That's very typical for a dog that age, had the same issues with all of my pups but they always come around.
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about your puppy

Postby Guest » Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:40 pm

:) I am new to the site as well. about your puppy he is right this is a very common problem for a dog this age but you do need to adress the problem before it becomes habit. try working the dog on a long rope so you can catch him and enforce the "here" command. When the dog does come back to you pet and praise the dog first. Most people reach for the bird first thing, this creates a habbit of running off so the dog can keep the bird. you might also try running from the dog, mabye tease the dog with another bird and get his mind off the bird in his mouth. you might already know and have tried these things, just trying to help. good luck
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eating the birds

Postby leadhead » Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:12 am

stop cooking the birds before you work your dog.

just kidding......the rope will work it just takes a lot of patience and time working with young dogs. if your bank account can afford it, there are numerous dog schools that will train the pup for you. this is not cheap, but it pays off by having a well trained dog, in a short time because they can work the dogs everyday. most people want the dog trained at too early an age. it takes time to get the results you want. work with him every chance you get. be generous with parise. remember he will be your partner not just a tool to fetch your birds.
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Postby Guest » Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:42 pm

another long rope recommendation, just be sure to GENTLY pull the pup in, otherwise he'll most likely drop the bird in order to fight the rope, just call him and repeat constantly the command you use whether it be "bring it" or "here" etc. if that doesn't work try the running from the dog, calling him/her and repeating the command as playfully as you can, hope your training goes well.
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Postby Steelheader » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:43 pm

E-Collar. Works every time.
Dam should have taken them on the last pass.
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pup

Postby okshooter » Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:56 am

do not use an e collar except for a last resort and at this age of the pup it should not be used at all make things fun for him and if he still eats the bird make sure he is full before you go to train and use the dummy then work your way to the birds again having the pup full will slow him down some if you start out with an ecollar you are likely to ruin him i challenge you to try to find a GOOD retreiver trainer that uses a shock collar to train a PUP
you need to spend lots of tim with him play fetching and rewarding him for his retreives and build a good bond with him the real bird fetching will come with patience
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Postby OklaDrake » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:09 am

Have to disagree with you Okshooter, I believe the correct use of an e-collar can properly solve the problem,,, E-collars have a bad name because some people abuse them due to their own impatience and ignorance. Its your job to train the dog to do what you want him to do, not coax him or bribe him to finally agree with your wishes..
Remember he belongs to you, treat him well and never abuse him. If you correct a dog with your hand or the end of a lead rope he knows you hurt him... an e-collar allows you to correct him with out touching him..
If you have earned his love and respect he will do whatever is asked of him, if you have put the time into the dog so that he understand what you want.

concerning a professional trainer...if you dont have the time and have the money go for it...but in training your own hunting companion you ensure a very strong bond with your dog that is priceless. The satisfaction and pride that comes with having a good dog trained by your own hand retrieve his first mallard is right up there with the birth of your children.

Just my opinion, feel free to reply.
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Postby SteveInTN » Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:10 pm

OklaDrake speaks the truth. Personally, I don't know many professional retriever trainers that DO NOT use an e-collar on a dog over 6-8 months of age. HERE is one of many commands that the dog shouldn't have an option on obeying. Enforce it with a rope or with an e-collar (once proper introduction is done), but enforce it. Don't coax it.

The force fetch and introduction of the e-collar CAN be two of the toughest tools to employ on ones own dog. But when done properly, they set a solid foundation on which someone can shape a hunting machine.

Just my opinion

The first time my dog swam down a drake mallard and treaded water while it dove, and the first time he chased a wounded goose across a field, made me almost as proud as when each of my kids were born. He is my partner, my pal, and is laying at my feet while I type. He also wears his e-collar EVERY TIME we go into the field to train or hunt.
"I'll start spending less time with my dog and more with my wife when she starts fetching ducks for me"
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Postby hoosier dhr » Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:45 pm

to young for e-coller, get water dog (book or video) Patience is a virtue!!!! :thumbsup:
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Postby SteveInTN » Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:27 pm

E-collars can be a polarizing topic, usually people are either pro or con, seldom in between. If you think 9 months is too young for an e-collar then you are probably of the mind-set that:

a) they are never a good tool

or

b) hard-core retriever training doesn't start until the dog is a year old

If you think they should never be used then just say that. If you think you can't expect that much out of a young retriever then you only have to go to a hunt test or field trial to discover otherwise. Everyone has an opinion but I can unequivocally state that for those who believe using an e-collar as a training tool is a good idea, the 'normal' time to introduce it is when the dog is between 6 and 9 months old.

E-collars should never be used to TEACH a dog anything. They should be used to reinforce commands that they have already been taught. It is just like having a very long rope. The person using the e-collar has to use it fairly. Patience is a key when using an e-collar.

I trained my first bird dog 22 years ago using Richard Wolters Gun Dog book. When I decided to train my first retriever I bought the Water Dog and Game Dog books and videos. I consider Wolters the guru supreme of gun dog training but he wrote those books almost 40 years ago. E-collars have come a LONG way since that time. Wolters didn't buy into the Force Fetch either. If you use Wolter's method as a basis and incorporate tools accepted by Wolter's pupils (e-collar & force fetch), building a retriever that is rock solid in obedience (which is the foundation of ANY great retriever) is much easier.

I'll qualify this by saying that my Lab is my hunting partner and my best friend. He goes with me everywhere I go. There isn't a hunting lab in the world that is spoiled more than mine. I've never gone upside his head or had to beat him for disobeying me. He learned from the beginning, and especially when he was around six months old, who the boss is.

Just my opinion
"I'll start spending less time with my dog and more with my wife when she starts fetching ducks for me"
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Postby magnum » Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:28 am

I use the Tri-tronics Sport 60s. It has an audible tone button that I used as a warning for my dog. By the end of the first day he realized that after the warning was the shock. It made our training sesions much more intense because he was learning due to the fact that I could disipline him anytime. Before he had a mind of his own and I was spending most of our sesions trying to make him pay attention to me and what I was trying to teach him. Not only did it make the training sesions more enjoyable, but it also made his progress much more rapid than before. I am a firm beleive that an e-collar is a great tool if used correctly. As far as famous trainers using e-collars, alot of them do. I know some say not to, but it is your decision to make. I am just giving you the results I have had with mine. And I must say that everyone that is around my dog, in the feild or in the house, always compliments me on his manners and his training.

Ty
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Postby b c g s » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:02 pm

Well it sounds like you are doing a good job. I would just keep reinforcing the come command. Using a check cord on him and when he gets the bird in his mouth give a firm tug and tell him to come. Also you could try the frozen bird trick. Then gradually work back to the live bird. :thumbsup:
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Postby 98ramtough » Mon Oct 04, 2004 10:18 am

I also use a Tri Tronics Sport60s. My female lab pup seemed to have a mind of her own, she knew all the commands and what to do, she just would ignore me. Just a couple times with the reciever on 1/2 and she knew what to do. It has helped us so much.

About the pup eating the bird- it is very normal. I would play fetch with a wing first, then tape the wings onto a bumper and play fetch with that. Then hide the bumper somewhere around the yard, make the dog find it and hand it to you. After the pup is solid with the bumper with the wings glued/taped to it then try a dead bird. I like to freeze a few birds whole and play fetch with them, they are solid and easy for the dog to retreive. After they are solid with that then try softer birds. -- This approach has worked well for us, slowly introducing the dog to birds.
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Postby phillipstd » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:51 pm

e-collar, 4-6 months maybe even earlier, training-i've always started as soon as I get them, they learn to learn, e-collars have come a long way, their not made to make your dog do backflips, if you don't use them right they can be very detrimental, but used correctly they're an invaluble tool, training without one can be done, but I see it like trying to pull your motor without a cherry picker, they're not required, but help imensly.
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