Lab Litter Question (Issues)

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Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby Ohioducker » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:57 pm

After a ton of research and looking at lab breeders in Ohio we found the litter we wanted and put down a depost and are second on list for a female. The parents are both great field dogs for duck and pheasant and also hold HRC titles including Master and 500 point HRC. We were excited as the pups were due the third week of February. Things have gone south in the last week and I need some input/advise from anyone who has raised young pups. The mom went into labor and had the first pup get stuck. That being said they had to go C-section. All 6 pups (3 male 3 female)survived the C-section including the one stuck. The mother had some complications and the pups were not with mom for the first night. After a few days some of the pups becamce very week and as of yesterday 3 have passed (2 male, 1 female). I am getting a little nervous about the overall health of the litter at this point. The other concern is being number 2 on the list and now only having 2 females I don't have any choice in the pup I recieve. I know many trainers who say it is the litter to be concerned most about not the individual pup. Should I be concerned about long term issues or if the three remaining respond well at this point don't worry? I would always plan a visit with my vet when I picked the pup up. I am not familiar with c section births with pups and just concerned about 50% mortality rate with the litter. We are really torn right now, I really like the parents both hunting and tempermant. Should I see how things go over the next few weeks or just walk away. I know I would loose my deposit but that is minimal to bringing home an unhealthy dog with long term issues. Granted I know no pup or breeder can guarantee long term health. Just nervous!!! Any breeders on here advise would be great.

I am asking because back around the holidays we had to put down our 4 yr old chocolate lab due to cancer totally unexpectedly. This was devistating to not only me but my two daughters and my wife. I am sure you understand where I am going here.
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby Mugzwump » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:32 pm

I totally get your concerns...
Puppy c-sections are pretty rare, though not necessarily an indication of overall health of the litter. I couldn't know without having all the details, but from what you have said it sounds like the puppies were without their mother for too long at such a critical stage, and only the very strong ones survived. You could look at this two ways... those that survived are fighters and could grow to be strong dogs, or the whole situation "runted" them all (unlikely).
Personally, I would have a close look at the dog you'll be given, maybe talk to the breeder and have a second vet check the pup out... if she's with the ma and growing well, that would be enough for me. I've seen my fair share of pups born, come and go... some make it some don't, all we can do is help them along the way. Sometimes the survivors are the best ones out there.

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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby copterdoc » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:21 am

It's a bad situation, but it wouldn't change my commitment to my decision.

Here's the way that I look at it.
You shouldn't buy a pup from a Breeder that you can't trust.
If you do trust the Breeder, there's no reason to change your mind.

To elaborate on that, consider the Health Guarantee.
I think that they are worthless.

If the health problem was something that the Breeder couldn't have done anything to prevent, I wouldn't ever hold the Breeder accountable. It was just bad luck. We both rolled the dice, and we both lost.

If the health problem was something that the Breeder could have done something to prevent, and failed to do it, I shouldn't have bought the puppy without first making sure that the applicable health clearances were done. I still rolled the dice and lost. And I also helped the bad luck happen, by adding a little bit of dumbass on my end.

In either case, I don't need a Health Guarantee.
If the Breeder is really trustworthy, they will do what is right. Even if I don't really deserve anything, and they aren't really at fault for what happened.

It sounds to me like your Breeder did everything they could to save this litter.
And I expect that if there are future problems with your pup, they will probably do what is right by you too.
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby Dakota Creek » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:52 am

I certainly feel for both you and the breeder as it is very hard to hear of a litter where all the pups survived the birth process, whether natural or c-section, and then have pups lost. We have had c-sections here, and the pups were all fine.

My first thought, would be whether the pups were allowed to get chilled? It is extremely critical that pups are kept warm, particularly during the first weeks, as they are unable to control their internal temperatures. One reason why you want mom in with the pups as much as possible, is for being an on demand food source but also as a heat source. Breeders will supplement the heat with an overhead heat lamp and may also using a heating pad for extra ground level heat when mom is out of the whelping box when she's eating or airing. Puppy temperatures are a concern in the summer months, but even more so with a litter born during the winter months .... And particularly with the colder temperatures that we have all experienced this year.

As others mentioned, if the breeder had done all the health clearances, the mom was healthy before and throughout the pregnancy, the remaining pups continue to grow and remain healthy and the breeder provides a health guarantee, I would very likely pick my pup and start to train. If you are confident in and trust the breeder I would say stick with them. If not, there are many very good breedings out there with all the health clearances you are looking for.
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby sgk » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:21 am

We have had a few c sections and all pups that came home with us were fine. We have lost a mother during c section and had to hand raise pups, bottle feed every 3 hours and keep them warm, and THEY all came out fine, although a bit smaller than the mother fed pups at their 6wk. checkup. If it were me buying the pup after half the litter expired I would have to think that pups were not properly cared for by the breeders or were very weak and sickly for some reason other than the c section and I would pass on a pup from this litter.
Since you have already given a deposit you could always ask for your deposit back, most reputable breeders would understand your reluctance given the circumstances, or if the breeder will not return your deposit, wait until it is time to pick up your pup, ask the breeder if you can speak with their vet about the pups health at her 6wk. checkup and decide, after talking to their vet and seeing the pups condition on pickup day, whether you want to plunk down the rest of the money and take her home or lose your deposit and wait for a different litter.
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby labman63 » Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:13 am

As far as second pic goes who is to say the first pic people picked the "best pup". You may have picked the one that is left anyway. If u like the breeding get the pup and train it to the best of your ability. My best pup ever was the only black male in the litter so I had no choice. Sold him for $6500 when he just turned two.
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby Ohioducker » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:51 pm

Well a little update:

I have been getting regular updates from the breeder. Things have turned around and everyone seems to be doing really well including mom who has been regular nursing for the last two weeks. Pup is exactly three weeks eyes are open and seems to be doing really well. I think maybe things were meant to be.
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3 WK Female
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby Gj325 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:56 pm

Ohioducker wrote:Well a little update:

I have been getting regular updates from the breeder. Things have turned around and everyone seems to be doing really well including mom who has been regular nursing for the last two weeks. Pup is exactly three weeks eyes are open and seems to be doing really well. I think maybe things were meant to be.



Good to hear hope things continue to get better. Good Luck. Nice looking pup!!
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby Ohioducker » Tue May 27, 2014 5:56 pm

13 weeks doing really well on training and retrieving.
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby rebelmdb69 » Tue May 27, 2014 6:16 pm

Awesome to hear that
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Re: Lab Litter Question (Issues)

Postby Dakota Creek » Tue May 27, 2014 6:27 pm

Good news! :thumbsup:
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