Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

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Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby C.J. » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:38 am

I assume they are using real dead birds and not dokens for hunt test, do they just have a large amount of these stock piled in a freezer?
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby aunt betty » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:45 am

C.J. wrote:I assume they are using real dead birds and not dokens for hunt test, do they just have a large amount of these stock piled in a freezer?
It's been a long time since I have been to a field trial. We did it with pointing dogs and now I own retrievers. They used live, pen raised, birds on the field trials I went to.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:54 am

C.J. wrote:I assume they are using real dead birds and not dokens for hunt test, do they just have a large amount of these stock piled in a freezer?


Generally live birds are euthanized prior to the test with the exceptions of live flyers which are shot for the dog.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby C.J. » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:57 am

would yall suggest using pigeons or ducks for training with a puppy?
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:58 am

Pigeons.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby i_willie12 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:11 am

We order them from bird raisers There are guys that actually make a living selling birds to HT FT About $12 a bird... We normally order 300 birds for a weekend!! :eek: theres were most of our money goes! We gas them in the morning to kill them
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby sharris » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:19 am

i_willie12 wrote:We order them from bird raisers There are guys that actually make a living selling birds to HT FT About $12 a bird... We normally order 300 birds for a weekend!! :eek: theres were most of our money goes! We gas them in the morning to kill them


Our club does the same thing and they are also the biggest part of our budget. If ducks (and bird boys) were cheap, we'd make a killing. So far we have lost money on every test we've run, but make it back up in the banquet. There is a one day test I am going to enter this year that is going to use frozen birds, have the handlers be the bird boys, and not have a banquet. They are going to pass the savings onto the participants so I think the prices are $30, $40, $50, and being a one day test I'll save a bundle on hotel costs and the banquet. That is the only test in my region that I know is planning on using frozen ducks.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:30 am

sharris wrote:
i_willie12 wrote:We order them from bird raisers There are guys that actually make a living selling birds to HT FT About $12 a bird... We normally order 300 birds for a weekend!! :eek: theres were most of our money goes! We gas them in the morning to kill them


Our club does the same thing and they are also the biggest part of our budget. If ducks (and bird boys) were cheap, we'd make a killing. So far we have lost money on every test we've run, but make it back up in the banquet. There is a one day test I am going to enter this year that is going to use frozen birds, have the handlers be the bird boys, and not have a banquet. They are going to pass the savings onto the participants so I think the prices are $30, $40, $50, and being a one day test I'll save a bundle on hotel costs and the banquet. That is the only test in my region that I know is planning on using frozen ducks.


Are these fresh killed frozen or used training day frozen? Don't see a savings in the former. :lol3: Be interesting to hear the outcome. Some will whine if old birds at a 'hunt test' and others may applaud the savings. As AKC requires flyers that would require live. Also - our experience (again - AKC) people want fresh birds and flyers for these types of events. Am interested how it turns out.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby i_willie12 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:11 pm

heck fresh birds get bad pretty fast..... couldnt imagine going into a day with frozen birds!
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby krazybronco2 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:25 pm

i_willie12 wrote:heck fresh birds get bad pretty fast..... couldnt imagine going into a day with frozen birds!


they dont last all all. i ran a test last spring and the first bird my dog picked up was still frozen. come to find out half the birds that started got at that test were frozen and were no longer good after the land series. they might have lasted one retrieve in the water series if it had not been raining all morning.

our club always gets fresh birds for every test and we do not gas the birds we inject alchol into the brain. it takes a while to do but the ducks retain their feathers alot better and dogs dont react to them as differently as they do with gased birds.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby sharris » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:07 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
sharris wrote:
i_willie12 wrote:We order them from bird raisers There are guys that actually make a living selling birds to HT FT About $12 a bird... We normally order 300 birds for a weekend!! :eek: theres were most of our money goes! We gas them in the morning to kill them


Our club does the same thing and they are also the biggest part of our budget. If ducks (and bird boys) were cheap, we'd make a killing. So far we have lost money on every test we've run, but make it back up in the banquet. There is a one day test I am going to enter this year that is going to use frozen birds, have the handlers be the bird boys, and not have a banquet. They are going to pass the savings onto the participants so I think the prices are $30, $40, $50, and being a one day test I'll save a bundle on hotel costs and the banquet. That is the only test in my region that I know is planning on using frozen ducks.


Are these fresh killed frozen or used training day frozen? Don't see a savings in the former. :lol3: Be interesting to hear the outcome. Some will whine if old birds at a 'hunt test' and others may applaud the savings. As AKC requires flyers that would require live. Also - our experience (again - AKC) people want fresh birds and flyers for these types of events. Am interested how it turns out.


That club is using training day frozen. They pitched the idea as basically running a training day and getting it officially judged with local judges, and passing the savings off to the participants (it will be open to about half the normal number of entries to keep the training day feel). I figure for a weekend hunt test that between premiums for two days, gas, hotel, and banquet I spend about $400-$500. Doing this one day hunt should be less than $100, so I am willing to go in with an open mind.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby sharris » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:11 pm

krazybronco2 wrote:
our club always gets fresh birds for every test and we do not gas the birds we inject alchol into the brain. it takes a while to do but the ducks retain their feathers alot better and dogs dont react to them as differently as they do with gased birds.


How does gassing bother the dogs? We use CO2 which is odorless. Plus, the CO2 technique is an AVMA approved euthanasia technique and therefore can't be claimed to be inhumane to the birds. Depending on where you live, that can cause some problems.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby krazybronco2 » Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:33 pm

sharris wrote:
krazybronco2 wrote:
our club always gets fresh birds for every test and we do not gas the birds we inject alchol into the brain. it takes a while to do but the ducks retain their feathers alot better and dogs dont react to them as differently as they do with gased birds.


How does gassing bother the dogs? We use CO2 which is odorless. Plus, the CO2 technique is an AVMA approved euthanasia technique and therefore can't be claimed to be inhumane to the birds. Depending on where you live, that can cause some problems.


the only test i ran with gased bird it wasnt CO2 used the gas was from a tail pipe of a 4wheeler and the first bird belle came to she looked at it funny like she does a coot. but talking about it at our last test meeting we discussed gassing birds this year and the 2 veterans that judge and run test all over GA/SC/FL threw that idea out the window because they said dogs act differently around gased birds. so sorry my only experiance was at that one test but i trust the veterans cause between the two of them they have seen and heard it all.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby HNTFSH » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:10 pm

sharris wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:
sharris wrote:
i_willie12 wrote:We order them from bird raisers There are guys that actually make a living selling birds to HT FT About $12 a bird... We normally order 300 birds for a weekend!! :eek: theres were most of our money goes! We gas them in the morning to kill them


Our club does the same thing and they are also the biggest part of our budget. If ducks (and bird boys) were cheap, we'd make a killing. So far we have lost money on every test we've run, but make it back up in the banquet. There is a one day test I am going to enter this year that is going to use frozen birds, have the handlers be the bird boys, and not have a banquet. They are going to pass the savings onto the participants so I think the prices are $30, $40, $50, and being a one day test I'll save a bundle on hotel costs and the banquet. That is the only test in my region that I know is planning on using frozen ducks.


Are these fresh killed frozen or used training day frozen? Don't see a savings in the former. :lol3: Be interesting to hear the outcome. Some will whine if old birds at a 'hunt test' and others may applaud the savings. As AKC requires flyers that would require live. Also - our experience (again - AKC) people want fresh birds and flyers for these types of events. Am interested how it turns out.


That club is using training day frozen. They pitched the idea as basically running a training day and getting it officially judged with local judges, and passing the savings off to the participants (it will be open to about half the normal number of entries to keep the training day feel). I figure for a weekend hunt test that between premiums for two days, gas, hotel, and banquet I spend about $400-$500. Doing this one day hunt should be less than $100, so I am willing to go in with an open mind.


Know it's a mindshift for many. Personally I would not care. Dog picks up thawed birds all year round. There's a number of dogs entered, and costs associated with a test, that can make or break. Entries are foremost followed by cost control on workers and birds. There's definitely a sweet-spot on both when it comes to turning a profit. It's also why most AKC folks hosting tests favor the limit on entries.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby Spry Yellowdog » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:03 pm

One club im a member of uses ducks for live flyers on our training picnics. Costs a bit more 20 bucks. But the last one I shot the flyers and worked another station and was able to bring home 10 training ducks in good shape for the freezer. :thumbsup:
The other one uses pigeons and there toast by the end of the day.
Test birds have always been fresh and expensive.

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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:53 am

Been my experience that some of Sunday's test ducks, and sometimes Saturday afternoon's, are so nasty that dogs not accustomed to training with the like may turn up their noses at them. Particularly if they've been "no"ed off stinkers in the field. So after tests, when others are sorting out the best birds to take home for training, I'm looking for the worst.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby copterdoc » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:07 am

The "worst" birds that I've ever seen at a test, were pretty damned bad before they were even dead.

Most of what we point at when defining bad birds, is actually feathers.
It's the feathers that make the bird look pretty and keep it afloat.

Dogs don't care about feathers.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:19 am

When the dogs that aren't accustomed to such are blinking, or rolling on, test birds they're caring about something.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby i_willie12 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:00 am

problem is when you start using them in water!!! fresh/frozen they start to get bad fast!!!!
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby HNTFSH » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:05 am

I can't remember anything but a junior dog refusing to pick up a nasty bird. Am sure there are a few though.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby Rick Hall » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:20 am

Last dog I saw one roll on a test bird was a Seasoned level Lab just off a 500 bird season. I've stocked up on skanky birds because one of my own blinked one in Finished years back, and more recently the coyote acted a fool tossing one in the air on his way back in with it the day he finished his HR right after his second season. I'd advise anyone who doesn't normally train with ragged out birds to do so before testing and particularly after a hunting season of working fresh birds.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby HNTFSH » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:49 am

Rick Hall wrote:Last dog I saw one roll on a test bird was a Seasoned level Lab just off a 500 bird season. I've stocked up on skanky birds because one of my own blinked one in Finished years back, and more recently the coyote acted a fool tossing one in the air on his way back in with it the day he finished his HR right after his second season. I'd advise anyone who doesn't normally train with ragged out birds to do so before testing and particularly after a hunting season of working fresh birds.


No doubt. Hell we train most all year with birds like that. A seasoned dog refusing a pick-up either doesn't train that often in those conditions or has a rich handler.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby crackerd » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:25 am

Wait a minute, HNTFSH - do you get faux blue-green algae on them plonds of yours? That's something else to be worried about a dog rolling in...

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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby HNTFSH » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:40 pm

crackerd wrote:Wait a minute, HNTFSH - do you get faux blue-green algae on them plonds of yours? That's something else to be worried about a dog rolling in...

MG


I mow the back 40 there mostly and raise the deck a hair to avoid cutting the plastic that remains but skim off the dangerous stuff.
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Re: Ducks used during Hunt test/Field Trials ?

Postby labman63 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:50 pm

I use them til parts fall off when you throw'm. Have a freezer full of birds from my clubs last test. Good and nasty.
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