New commands for the pup

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New commands for the pup

Postby DROPDUX » Wed May 25, 2005 9:32 am

My yellow is about 16 weeks now, and he is doing really well with his commands. he sits well and stays well too; however, he will not stay if I leave his sight. Anyone know of a good way to teach him to stay when I walk around the corner?

Also, anyone have any advise on how to start teaching hand siginals. I am mostly interested in left, right & back
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Postby 98ramtough » Wed May 25, 2005 9:58 am

Drop Dux- I would suggest purchasing some dog training videos. Even Grams Smartworks, smart fetch are good books.

Richard Wolters also have some informative material. I would suggest 10 minute retriever.

If you really want to talk training PM me and I will give you a call. Everything you can teach this dog at that age is easier than when they are older. Work on obedience for now, don't worry about hand signals etc. Keep the desire to retrieve, but don't do any finishing work such as hand signals etc. Keep on obedience, hell, sit etc.

As far as the "staying", When you teach a command, teach the dog to stay in that position until you instruct differently. When you say sit, eventually you should be able to walk around the yard, block etc and the dog is still sitting. I would suggest not even teaching stay, make it your goal that the dog will stay in that position until told differently.. Like I said, if you have a lot of questions PM me and I will call you sometime.


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Obedience

Postby DROPDUX » Wed May 25, 2005 12:12 pm

98ram,

thanks for the info--Your right, I'm gonna focus on obedience for now. Its hard not work on too much (especially when there is so much progress) I just need to realize that he is still only a pup. He loves to retrieve that's for sure.

Thank you
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Postby duckdog » Wed May 25, 2005 2:46 pm

DROPDUX, tell him to stay, and just start to walk around the corner of shed, or garage keep an eye on him, if he start's to break tell him to stay again. Make sure your doing baby step's, and don't let him get away with it they seem to learn bad thing's quicker than the good. :mrgreen:
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Postby DROPDUX » Wed May 25, 2005 3:58 pm

Thanks duckdog,

He will not even blink so long as he can see me. once I'm out of site, he moves to where he can see me (he doesn't always come right to me in these instances).

Right now we do most of our work inside because it's so hot here (95 after dark). Today at lunch we made some progress. Really, I think he does well considering his age. I can walk around him and do whatever and he stays (as long as I am in sight). Thanks for the pointers
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Wed May 25, 2005 6:34 pm

I taught my dog stay, and now i am starting to side with 98ram. my next dog i will not teach "stay" I will just teach him to either sit, down, hold and so on. Right know i tell my dog to sit, and i start to walk away, and he follows me. I don't want him to. i want him to sit. There is no need for stay if you are planning on going further in your training. take the wistle stop for example. when you blow the wistle, you want your dog to face you , sit and wait for another command. Anyways this is my new thinking. If i tell him to sit, that is what i meen, i want him to sit until i give him another command. The next command might be to heel, come, down, left, right or back. but stay doesn't have a place in any of this. I should know, because i have been trying to break mine from havin to say stay.
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Postby 98ramtough » Wed May 25, 2005 6:55 pm

Ace- Exactly. It is confusing to the dog to teach stay. JMHO.
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Wed May 25, 2005 7:05 pm

Even more confusing to the dog is to unteach stay. He gives me some looks like "well jeez i used to make you happy when i did this, now you i'm in trouble for doing it. Make up your ^%$$##%^ mind you ***!"
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Postby gsphunter » Thu May 26, 2005 7:17 am

98ram is exactly right, no need for stay. If you tell your dog to sit, the dog sits, then gets up whenever it wants to, it is disobeying. In my opinion, the more you control when it comes to obedience the better. At 16 weeks, you will have no problem eliminating stay.
Also if the dog gets up from the sit or whatever, don't repeat the command. Tell the dog NO and then put it back in the position. You want to let the dog know that picking his butt up of the ground is a NO, not that you will repeat commands for him. Good Luck and Keep it fun. :thumbsup:
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Postby shrpshtr » Thu May 26, 2005 8:32 am

i personally like and use the stay command. i think the capacity to which i do it is just a bit different than most though. you could probably get the same result with sit but it's my preference to use it. a couple of examples are when i am in the yard and another dog or whatever comes walking by, i use stay to keep my dog in my general area. i don't necessarily want him to sit and wait for my next command because i am not handling him at that time. another example is in the duck blind or field with another dog. more times than not, handlers use the same or similar commands when working a dog. i use stay to let me dog know to not even think about working a downed bird. he can be laying down next to me and i really don't care, as long as he doesn't take off. this applies to slow days in the field as well. i have never seen a dog that will truly sit until you tell him to move. that is unrealistic, imo. what if you have a slow day in the field? nothing is flying, etc. are you really going to make your dog "sit" the entire time in a ready to work position for hours? i just can't imagine that. my dog stays at my heel and when it's time to work i give him the command to mark and try my hardest to provide him with an opportunity to retrieve. that's when i handle him...

just my opinion though.
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Postby DROPDUX » Thu May 26, 2005 9:10 am

Good one GSP
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Thu May 26, 2005 10:59 am

When i'm in the blind (really not a blind, but a patch of tullies.) i have a dog stand, to keep my dog out of the water. I tell him to load. that means get up there and stay. He doesn't get down until i say his name. That is his release word. That is how he knows that other dog owners arn't giving him a command. A great example of this was last year towards the end of the season, it was my buddies dogs turn to get the downed duck. the duck started swimming my dogs direction and actually swam right by his dog stand. He wanted it and was staring at it but he did not leave his dog stand. My buddies dog, Tatum, retrieved the duck and returned it to him. I looked at ace with a smile and said good boy.
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Postby 98ramtough » Thu May 26, 2005 11:06 am

Ace- Your dog is very obedient, it is very hard to keep a dog from retrieving a downed bird they can see, and very hard to get a dog that never breaks from the gun.


I have never seen any dog that NEVER breaks on gun fire. You can get a dog that will not break most the time, but they always seem to break every once in a while.
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Postby shrpshtr » Thu May 26, 2005 11:13 am

i have seen that problem too 98. the way i solved it was simply moving my dog's heel position back to where his head is lined up with my hip (instead of his shoulders). in that dogs mind it gave him the perception that he had to go past me before retrieving and he wasn't willing to do that without being told. my dog now hasn't broken on the shot since he was a little puppy. i don't know why because i have never tried to teach him different. i guess i am just lucky....
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Postby 98ramtough » Thu May 26, 2005 11:35 am

I have hunted with some amazing dogs, and never seen one that didn't break on the gun every once in a great while. Your extremely lucky. Lots of guys say that his dog never breaks on gun, but you go hunting and its a different story. Just depends on the scenario, your dog is infront of the water and a huge flock of mallards come in and you drop 10 right in front of his face, there are birds flopping everywhere in the water right in front of him, and he still wouldn't break ever? My dog would probably break.... I don't think there is any way to correct the every once in a while breaking on those conditions, I don't want to hurt my dogs desire and love for the sport.

If your dog still wouldn't break, your lucky! Or you have some secret method of training for that scenario.. :)
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Postby shrpshtr » Thu May 26, 2005 11:40 am

shrpshtr wrote:... i don't know why because i have never tried to teach him different. i guess i am just lucky....
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Postby gsphunter » Thu May 26, 2005 8:17 pm

Somebody mentioned a dog getting his commands confused with another handler. One way to eliminate this is by saying your dog's name before your command. I realized the need for this when I started hunting with other people, but it really became a neccesity when I got my second dog.

I started with kenneling in the truck and coming outside through the door. They both caught on really quick. Now I can stand at the end of my driveway with both of them standing at the door and say Sadie Ok and only get her.
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Thu May 26, 2005 10:09 pm

This past year was my dogs first full year at hunting. The year before, he was always moving around the blind , but he only hunted about 5 times and he wasn't even a year old. This year i bought the dog stand. It was amazing. It gave him a place that he knew he was suppose to be. sometimes he was 20 yds away from me. and still wouldn't break without me saying his name. I worked very hard on this. starting way back. i always knew that i was going to hunt with other dogs, maybe even one other one of my own. so when he was a pup, i would make him sit and (stay) until i said his name. I would say other names, like my cats names or other dogs that i knew he would be hunting with. soon he learned that he could only break when i said "ACE" It was hard when i started using "BACK" at first he would just sit there. later he realized that it was a second break command. After i bought the dog stand, he has not left early. My buddies dog, jumps in the water if the guys a hundred yards away shoot. on the last day of the season she jumped in the water and flared 2 nice flocks of teal before we could shoot. I realize that not everyone wants a perfect dog. it is just a small group of us.

I read something about a month ago. It was about talking to a breeder. It said"don't trust a breeder that won't tell you his dogs faults. because every dog has some faults, ever master hunters" I think that is true. so i asked my self what some of my dogs faults were. I came up with several some are in his breeding (short hair, not thick, doesn't help in cold weater) . Doesn't mark birds as well as i would like. Hunts on his own a little too much.

like i said some of his faults are through breeding, many of them are due to trainer (yours truely.)

But he's still the best dog i own.
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Postby defectivedabbler » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:43 pm

Teaching the STAY command is a matter of preference. I elected to teach my dog that SIT means SIT and dont freakin move until I give a command. If the dog is at HEEL and I step off with my left foot, he follows. If I step off with my right foot, he remains in SIT.

If you feel you need a reafffirmation of the command, (dogs walking by is a great example) I use LEAVE IT. Again, not inferring that there is a right and wrong way, just a personal prefence.

I try and stick with as few commands as I can. Since we are on the subject , I might as well list them:

SIT
HERE
DOWN
QUIET
FETCH
GET UP
OFF
LEAVE IT
HEEL
BACK (or DEAD BIRD, BACK)
OVER
BREAK
MARK
YUK - Used to display my disgust during those times when I dont want to collar correct for poor behavior or an incorrect action.
JAX (Dog's name.Release command to retrieve)

And my personal favorite

GOOD BOY, GO POTTY ! :getdown:

Laugh if you want but my dog will pee on command.
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