shock collars

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shock collars

Postby take em' 77 » Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:56 pm

Just wondering what you guys think about shock collars. I do not have a hunting dog at the time but when i do get one id really rather not use a shock collar on him....What's you guys oppinion on this? is there anyone here who has not used a shock collar?
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Postby 98ramtough » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:10 pm

take em.


Shock collars when used correctly are an incredible training tool. Do your research and use them correctly and it is easier on you and your dog.

Just a quick story about an ecolar.

I always hunt my dog with an ecolar on, for safety reasons, and just in case I need to correct him. Well on one of the last hunts of the season I was hunting a really wide river (columbia river) and I sent my dog on a pretty far cripple, it was probably a couple hundred yards out. The fog came out of no where and was coming down the river, my dog was really close to this duck and it kept diving on him. I couldn't call him off of it so I used the ecolar to nick him and he turned and came in.

A guy down the river a short ways lost his lab that day when he couldn't call his dog off a cripple headed into the fog.


Yes, this can be avoided with solid obedience training. I am pretty certian I wouldn't have my dog if I didn't have that colar on him that day. It is easy to call your dog off something when he is close, but you get him out there a couple hundred yards its a lot harder!

Another situation I have seen was a guy quail hunting near a dirt road, the dog broke for some reason chasing a quail, rabbit etc. Along came a speeding pickup on this rural dirt road and the trailor clipped the dog in the back. The handler was yelling at the dog but he just couldn't hear or didn't listen. (Dog had to get stitches but was OK)....

Shock colars aren't a fix all tool, but I feel a lot better hunting certain areas with the colar to ensure obedience......

JMHO..

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Postby ACEBLDRS » Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:19 pm

98ramtough wrote:Shock colars aren't a fix all tool, but I feel a lot better hunting certain areas with the colar to ensure obedience......

JMHO..

Mike


98 is right an E collar is only and extention of the training you've already done. When you are 5 feet from your dog usually your voice is enough to correct your dog. Then when you move on to a little further training a 20' or 50' check cord can be used to train your dog. When you move on to 200yd retrieves you need a longer rope. and an E collar gives you that ability.

MHO. :smile:
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Postby donell67 » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:15 pm

e-collar sounds like an excellant tool.
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:22 pm

donnel, it is an excellent TOOL.

That made me think of something. An E collar is and only is a tool. Anyone can go down to home depot and buy a saw and a framing square, but that doesn't meen they can go home and cut and stack a roof.

Just because you buy a tool doesn't mean you can put it on your dog and stand back and say "there, that should fix that!" :eek:

For an E collar to work the dog has to already understand what you as a trainer wants from it. It is not a teaching tool as much as it is a correction too.

There are no shortcuts in dog training folks. Even the ten minute retriever takes some time!
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Postby take em' 77 » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:25 pm

thanks for the info. guys :salude: ....i think the reason i was trying to stay away from the shock collar is because ive seen guys who use the collars and will shock the dog for anything it does wrong :thumbsdown:
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:36 pm

take'em, I've actually talked a couple of friends out of buying and using them, because i knew they were to lazy to use them the correct way. And the dog would end up getting shocked when it was not needed.
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Postby gsphunter » Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:35 pm

ACE I've had a similar thing happen with me. My aunt and one of my friends were out training with me one day (the case with my friend actually happened this morning). They saw how obedient my older dog is, and instantly they want to "TRY" my ecollar. My answer is always no. They don't know how to use them, what to use them for, or even where to start with them.

If you first learn how to use them, they are great tools for reinforcing known commands. The stimulation applied by the collar is instantaniously on and off, which makes it an awesome correction, because the correction is applied instantly at any distance and turned off when the dog complies.

As mentioned above, they are great safety tools as well. I too use mine if I am at all concerned about the area I'm hunting.

If you learn how to use them, I would not be at all worried about using them in your training. There is a right and wrong way to do everything, just make sure you do it right and you'll be fine.
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Postby JJ McGuire » Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:26 am

Exellent topic, and great information.
If you can't train a dog without an e collar you can't train a dog with one.
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Postby shrpshtr » Wed Jun 29, 2005 8:46 pm

JJ McGuire wrote:Exellent topic, and great information.
If you can't train a dog without an e collar you can't train a dog with one.


:withstupid:

Great stuff everyone! :thumbsup:
Talk 'em into givin' up!

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Postby pitboss » Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:45 pm

great info above... :thumbsup:





i trian with a collar everyday, but never use one during the season...

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communication

Postby drwilly » Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:26 am

just thought I would add my 2 cents. If used properly the shock collar helps you communicate with your dog more easily. Sometimes disobedience is a lack of communication between hunter and dog. The collar is a communication tool not a form of punishment. like all have said its great when used properly.
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Postby bullet » Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:20 pm

An e-collar when used properly is the most humane way to train a dog.
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Postby duckdog » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:30 pm

Never used one myself, personally I don't want one because it would be to easy to get out of control with it I am not a patient person at all. It all depend's on the owner not the dog IMHO. I could easily see people out there shocking the living you know what out of there dog's, and that aint right. Any one who doe's that should have one put on them. Just think if dog's owned us, and they had shock collar's, we all make mistake's, and probaly alot more than our dog's do! Learn how to train without it first, and when you think you can handle your dog good enough then get one if you still think you need it. I could see it coming in very handy though if you were hunting dangerous water's, or near a road, etc.
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:41 pm

I agree with you duckdog. And when an e collar is used properly the trainer does train the dog without it first, then it is applied. My dog was taught how to sit, heal, Force Fetch, all without the use of a collar. Then when he mastered those things the collar was used to enforce the things he already knew. You can't put a collar on a dog and expect him to get smart.

By the way. Before i used the collar on my dog, I put it between my forearm and bicep and hit the #2 and the #3 button. It gave me a jolt. So i do know how it feels.
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Postby bullet » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:27 am

I'll say it over and over, the e-collar is the most humane way to teach a dog. Many old style techniques are near destinction because of the e=collar. ie, tow hitches for FF, dragging pups by long check cords and even pinch collar sales are on a rapid decline. Unless one is training with 100% positive reinforcement there must be some sort of discipline applied. I personally don't know of any trainers in my area that don't use them and some are producing our top field dogs in the nation. I believe you can train without them if you have one dog and willing to spend years training the dog, and quite possibly settle for an inferior product in comparison to a collar trained dog. I believe the average man's dog of today is much better than the average man's dog of yesteryear. E-collars have come along way over the past decades, and so have the quality of dogs, at least in the Lab world they have. Field trial dogs are becoming more and more prominent for hunters, while bench Labs are being used less and less in the field. A decade ago I trained, with the help of a trainer, a Lab with an e-collar. For years and years she was a great hunting companion, she is 13 now and have since retired her, so I have a 10-11 month old pup being trained with the same e-collar. Took me a week to find the collar , because I hadn't used it in 8-9 years. I could probably have trained the first dog w/out the collar but would be extremely dfficult to train my new pup w/out. He's a higher strung, more desire, faster, more athletic, better marking ability, the list goes on than my first. Train your dog and reinforce the commands with an e-collar and you'll put out a better dog in less time. This is JMO
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Postby brdprey » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:28 am

duckdog wrote:Never used one myself, personally I don't want one because it would be to easy to get out of control with it I am not a patient person at all. It all depend's on the owner not the dog IMHO. I could easily see people out there shocking the living you know what out of there dog's, and that aint right. Any one who doe's that should have one put on them. Just think if dog's owned us, and they had shock collar's, we all make mistake's, and probaly alot more than our dog's do! Learn how to train without it first, and when you think you can handle your dog good enough then get one if you still think you need it. I could see it coming in very handy though if you were hunting dangerous water's, or near a road, etc.


it is easy to get out of control but if you want to break that, do what my wife told me. she said, seeing as your temper is about as hot as a fuse why dont you try the collar first.
well being a guy of ill try anything once, i did.............HOLY CHIT........that was a wake up call.....i love my pup and so far only had to use a jolt here and there on low settings. i dont want to hurt him , that collar bites and i know it. like the previous post said, ask around and learn how to use the collar. you dont want to make him shy of it or you. hell now i get the collar out and pup knows it is time to go do duckies..........and pretty much wizes all over him self in excitement..........(just an expresion on the wizzing). :tounge:
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Postby IBBoykin » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:53 am

I commend you for your convictions, I too thought just as you do for so long a period of time. We have all heard the horror stories that are related to shock collars. To put my angle in on shock collars; They are an invaluable training tool. Too many times when a dog is XX distance away from you and let's say you blow a remote sit whistle and the dog either fails to sit, or is not quick enough to your liking. If the dog is 50 to 75 yards away from you, that by the time you are able to get out to him and correct him, he will only be confused because enough time is passed that he has no idea what you are ranting and raving about.
I prefer to use my collar on as low a setting as I can get away with. I like to refer to it as my little remote tap on the shoulder to remind the dog that I am here and in charge, then if their actions warrant it, I will turn the level up. I do not believe in the "BURN" technique. So many think it has to really burn to be effective.
Advice, take your time and fully (4 to 6 months) complete basic obedience with the dog before you get into formal retriever training. Then, the first thing I do is to collar condition them. We have to make sure that they understand why they are getting shocked.
Once this is complete, move forward in your training. Never ever let your temper dictate the level of intensity. If you loose your temper, then pack up the dog and head to the house before you do some irreversible damage.
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Postby Greg Wile » Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:37 pm

All good info :thumbsup: I don't own one and if I did I'd have to hide it cause the wife would put it one me when watching a movie with my eyes closed. :toofunny:
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Postby drwilly » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:35 pm

I have a boykin as well. Training them is a whole different ballgame than a lab. Boykins and I guess sensitive labs are more susceptible to damage from improper collar use. However, used properly the collar is a lifesaver for finicky dogs like lil brown ones. i think of it as a reminder or a prompting not a punishment.

by the way. some pics on my dogs website. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/islandgirlamy/
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Postby tstrong » Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:11 pm

Had my lab trained, they gave me the one they used during the training. They are great, but I hardly ever use. When he sees it in the dog bag he thinks it's training time and goes crazy for it.
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