Frozen Birds?

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Frozen Birds?

Postby ACEBLDRS » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:04 pm

Cooter mentioned that after he FF's his dogs he likes using only real ducks. I was just thinking about this today. I have a couple of frozen ducks in my freezer. But that is all. After several uses they get pretty beatin up. Is there someplace to buy these and have them shipped to me. I don't want to start having a damn bird cage in the middle of the 10th largest city in the U.S. (they just came out with the largest city stats last week) I have seen some places on the net that raise mallards and ship them to you. they gaurantee that they are stong fliers and all that. I don't want a bunch of ducks ups'd to me and have to ring their necks and put them in ther freezer. I know the best sollution would be to have a little more fore thought and save some more birds.


If anyone has any ideas please let me know. I am just getting through FF and would like to use a lot more birds in my training. I want ACE to get used to delivering to hand with real birds. I don't want to have to use the two birds that i do have all summer. that would be a messed up Teal and Ringneck. I guess i could find some pigeons, but i feel like he is past the pigeon thing.
.....you've got to ask yourself a question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?

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Postby bullet » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:24 pm

Ace, personally I'd rather be using live pigeons, then frozen ducks. I've never seen a dog that can't make the transition from pigeon to duck. I'm not sure about the laws either. I know the guy thats working with me and my pup has some in a cage, and he said we'll shoot some over him but again there are laws but I don't know what they are. I'll ask him for you and see where he gets his. You're not that far from Los Banos are you? Maybe he'll sell some who knows. they're all Mallards
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Postby ACEBLDRS » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:31 pm

Thanks bullet. When you say that the trainer is using live pigeons. How is he using them. Is he releasing them and then shooting them. Then sending your dog on retrieve? I am a little over an hour from Banos. That is where i do most of my hunting. Where is your dog at and who's the trainer? If you don't mind me askin.
.....you've got to ask yourself a question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?

Dirty Harry

Die' en ain't much of a livin' son.
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Postby bullet » Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:07 pm

http://www.featherranch.com/
Phil Mueller. off of Henry Miller Rd or Dr. 1/2 to a mile from the refuge.
There are so many ways to use pigeons. when Bullet was only weeks old we'd release them from the hand. Clip wings, pigeon launchers. We cross train for upland by dizzying them and quartering and flushing "Sit to Flush" steady to shot. Pigeons flat out stink and its a great training tool to have. Bullet has had 70-100 pigeons shot over him in one way or another, starting at 3 months to 10 months now
Phil is a great guy and whats nice is he'll work with you for a half an hour or a half a year, whatever you need
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Postby cooter » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:10 am

Like Bullet, I use many Pigeons, mainly due to cost. And transition is exactly right. Once they will pick up birds, they will pick up any bird, unless you have a rare dog. :cool:

But I set up days that we are going to have a flyer shoot. I invite as many guys that are willing to come, telling them that the birds are $$$$ each, how many would they like to use on there dog. Many guys will buy 3-8 birds with us working dead birds into the rest of the training.

If I am got a guy that is running triples, then I will set up each outside bird with a dead bird, and make the GO (Long Middle Bird) bird a flyer, which is the last bird thrown. This tends to really motivate the dog for the whole triple. Plus if he has bought 3 birds we get to run 3 sets of triples with his dog, which is a God SOLID day of work. If wwe are working double, I will usually do a long GO bird first, and then come back with the dead bird double. The dog relly locks up on the doubles after seeing the live flyers.

But after a day of training many of the guys don't have a place to keep the dead birds so I keep them for my training. And if they come back out before th enext Flyer shoot then we are usually using my dead birds, which are birds that they left with me. So everyone comes out OK, and I don't haft to buy birds by the 100's. But your right, according to how many dogs you ar running a dog, they will use up several a day. So it is nice to have a flyer shoot every couple months to keep birds coming in.

I do use a lot of pigoens, but with not training for upland, scenting, quartering session, I like using the mallards as much as possible. Duck and Goose hunters being my main clients, I do a lot of water training. With mallards they make a bigger splash, and float higher in the water, allowing the dog a better look. So I use mallard on ALL of my water work, but do not mind using pigeons on land work, and they are cheaper, which I really like. So you haft to cater to the training you are doing.

A lot of these things, there is no Right or Wrong answer, it is just what fits the need of the training you are doing. After a pigeon has hit the water for one retrieve, it lays so flat in the water that you can barely see it. But, mallards will do the same thing after a few retreives. But you can 3-4 retrieves.

Either will do a great job for the purpose, just use them in the right spot and you can get more mileage for your money. cooter
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Postby bullet » Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:56 am

Cooter, I don't know the regs in Tejas, but they've come out w/ some new regs this year about training birds. I went to an advanced dog training clinic put on by the DFG here in Ca. and I couldn't understand what this young kid was talking about but I did come to the conclusion they've put some new rules in this year about shooting game birds for training. I have a pamphlet he handed out so I'll read it and let you know.
Did I read correctly or don't you crosstrain at all for upland? We train alot of pigeons over water. Because of some of the waterways and levies we train at, a good majority of water retrieves the bird never hits the water. I don't hunt many big open water spots. Mostly dikes, levies canals,small ponds, whatever you want to call them. A dog may have to cross 3 waterways to get a bird laying on the ground somewhere. This makes it pretty difficult for a young pup to find and because the pigeons smell so good it helps the training process. With a max spread of 2-3 dozen dekes, you can get the first bird to drop in them but the second can be in another world.
The more I read these forums the more I believe you have to adapt to the terrain your hunting in. I've seen your pics posted and I have to admit Greenheads are an awesome bird to drop. Unfortunately in ca. we're not that lucky to be able to pic and choose. I've had my limits of GH but those days are farther and fewer between. My favorite eating bird is Teal (Cinn in particular). Teal limits are ok for me. I guess you just have to settle. Another year or 2 and I'm out of here. Too many Spoons working my dekes.
Sorry for hijacking your thread Ace. Just finished a pot of coffee :eek:
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Postby cooter » Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:21 pm

No, you are probably having the same thing there that we have here. If I use Wild Ducks killed during the season, then you are under the Regular Season Regulations. So you don't want to stock up on frozen birds during the season to use for training or you are breaking the law.

So I buy all of my Training Birds. And when you buy them, the breeder should give you a Leg Band for every bird that you buy or the band should really be on the birds leg. But many time I just get them in a envelope. But if you have 50 mallards in your freezer and the GW shows up, you best have some paper work that says you BOUGHT those birds.

So every bird I shoot is Table Food, which my family loves them wrapped in bacon with Jal Pepper on the grill, so it is not a problem. But if you have a limit & possession (sp) in your freezer, the law reads (here) that you are done until you eat some birds. You can not have more than a limit and a possession in your freezer at all. So I think we are all guilty of this. Now, I have never heard of a GW crawling someone for this. But if they thought your were a lawbreaker, and just couldn't catch the good on ya. The law is the law. Or this is how it is here. You can have 1 Limit & 1 possession, in your possession, PERIOD. Freezer, Ice Chest on the way home, strapped, PERIOD. But I haven't ever had or heard for anything like this happening, but it is the way th LAW reads here.

So all of my training birds are bought. Pigeons $5-$6 each & Mallards $8-$12 each according to how many are available in the area. This is why I have the Flyer Shoots to help me with the cost.

I mainly just train Hunting/Gun Dogs. Field Trial/Hunt Test is mainly Marking, and handling, which I really enjoy, but Hunting is using the skills of the dogs breeding, nose, eyes and ears. Plus I just don't have time to spend my weekends at the test. I have trained a few dogs for guys that wanted to hunt and play in the hunt test games. But I train the dog and they run him. I don't believe in someone buying a dog, and bringing it to me for training, then I go and get the JH, SH, MH, and they have a finished dog. So they have a top notch dog, and no idea of how to work them. Now, I make money, and I'm not against that. But I stay busier than I want to just training Gun Dogs for hunters, and I really enjoy that. Hunting guys want to know how to work there dog, and will come to workouts during training. And I like it when guys are showing intereest in their dogs. Plus I get invited on some REALLY nice hunts with old clients. :salude:

Most of our hunting is open water, flooded timber, and marshes, so most of the birds are dead in the water. Most of my hunting is done in waders, in knee deep water. So like you were saying , it is just a different area that attracts different birds. I love eating Teal, and hunting them. We have the BW & GW Teal in our area. I have never seen a Cinn Teal in the wild. But I only shoot birds that I will eat, everything else gets a free pass or I scare the crap out of them. :eek: Teal, Woodies, Greeheads, Gadwall, Pintail & Widgeon.

Maybe, I can get you to send me a Nice Cinn Teal for mounting someday. That would start some serious conversation at a B.S. Fest. :yes: cooter
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