Over under vs. semi automatic

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Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby TheBigTim » Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:54 pm

Why are over/under shotguns more expensive than Semi automatic shotguns?
What are the disadvantages and advantages of each?
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby mudpack » Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:12 pm

Semi: advantage: three shots, easier loading in a layout or boat, cheaper, reliable, less recoil
disadvantage: needs cleaning more often to maintain reliability

O/U: advantage: generally shorter overall length for given barrel length, needs cleaning once a decade
disadvantage: only two shots, expensive for a decent one, awkward to load/unload in close confines


I have both types, and have hunted with both types. The semi wins hands down for me FOR DUCKS. I carry an O/U for upland game, and use an O/U for much of my target shooting (skeet and Sporting Clays).

Notice there is no advantage listed for the O/U for having two chokes. That's because more often than not, you've got the wrong choke selected for the shot (in waterfowling). And, it means that for any given distance, you only have ONE shot that is best.
No, in hunting, you do not know what the next shot will be....as opposed to target shooting, where you know when and where the next bird is coming and can set your barrels for the proper choke. I see no advantage in having a choice of two chokes in hunting situations....it just adds more complications, which means more missed birds.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby Tipsntails7 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:18 pm

The poster above says it all perfect, but also double barrels are more expensive because they are suppose to be a symbol of "craftsmanship". Most of them are a status symbol and honestly are not worth the price, in my opinion. Only double barrel I'll ever by is an old citori or a new cynergy, they are wonderful shooting guns and can somach the price, but when they start getting above the 2500 dollar mark I start to scratch my head:
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby greyson1 » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:31 pm

I guess i'll have to disagree with mudpack on this one, as i prefer a o/u for duck & goose hunting for different reasons. And one being the choke selection. The o/u i use has a simple slide of the tang safety to switch barrels/chokes, as most do, and isn't that complicated even in the heat of the moment. But to be honest it usually stays @ close range first shot then medium range shot next. Never really felt the need for a 3rd shot, as its usually a 40 yrd + longer range crap shot anyways :beer:
Last edited by greyson1 on Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby Sagebrush » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:42 pm

Nothing like an O/U for the skeet,trap or Sporting Clays course,where two chokes ARE better than just one.
Generally two shots is all that you will need and you can set the gun and loads up for the course or birds being tossed.
A Semi can't hold a candle to a O/U on a clay course with all the diferent distances and angles from 15 yards out to 55,
with just one choke.

The Semi-auto is better in the field, mostly when hunting upland birds and a flock bust from cover and you are allowed
five shells in your gun. Most can be had with 30 inch down to the short 26 in barrel lengths that many use in the field for faster handling and the poly stocks also add in this with less weight,for an all day hike.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby Hat Flats » Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:24 am

I use both for Waterfowl hunting, I have not had any real issues loading my U/O's in tight spaces I just roll it on it's side out of the blind, I do use two chokes to my advantage When birds are working head on I use my tighter choke first and by my second shot the birds are in my face and I hit them with the open choke, the main reason a double is more money is all of the machining and fitting that goes into the reciever and regulating the barrels for point of impact and the fitting of the stocks all require hands on.

The biggest advantage of an auto are having an adjustable stock and sometimes the third shell.

The quality/labor that goes into the manfacture of say a Browning auto Vs a Browning O/U or a Beretta Auto Vs a Berreta O/U the autos are not even on the same page.

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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby mudpack » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:26 pm

Hat Flats wrote:The quality/labor that goes into the manfacture of say a Browning auto Vs a Browning O/U or a Beretta Auto Vs a Berreta O/U the autos are not even on the same page. Kurt

I disagree.
I have a Beretta 682 Gold E (combo) and a Beretta Xtrema2. I'd say the quality is comparable. However, if the Xtrema had a wood stock, it no doubt would not be the same grade as that on the 682. :biggrin:
I have a Browning Gold and, while I do not own a Browning O/U, I have handled, shot, and examined many of them. I would say the same thing about comparing the build quality on those two guns.

Different strokes for different folks, that's all. :thumbsup:
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby Griffin4590 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:34 pm

greyson1 wrote:I guess i'll have to disagree with mudpack on this one, as i prefer a o/u for duck & goose hunting for different reasons. And one being the choke selection. The o/u i use has a simple slide of the tang safety to switch barrels/chokes, as most do, and isn't that complicated even in the heat of the moment. But to be honest it usually stays @ close range first shot then medium range shot next. Never really felt the need for a 3rd shot, as its usually a 40 yrd + longer range crap shot anyways :beer:

bet you dont kill many tripples? and if your not takeing "40yrd + longer range crap shot" then why do you need 2 different chokes.
i've been in the blind with 2 buds and killed 9 birds from a single flock. good luck doing that with an over under.

Its a simple choice for waterfowling the extra shell makes a difference even if its to anchor that cripple on the water. only reason I ever shoot an O/U for ducks is for the fun it. kinda the same reason I use a 20ga from time to time or the pump gun i grew up shooting as a kid.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby greyson1 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:51 pm

The two chokes that pretty much stay in that gun all the time are a skeet & lm and i've never felt under gunned. But like mudpack said" different strokes for different folks"
Also, three shells aren't always needed to anchor three birds when your doing your part :thumbsup:
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby bigdane » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:05 pm

Its all about what feels good in your hands, I grab my cynergy every morning over my maxus, super black eagle ii, benelli m2, or benelli super port. Ive also found shooting a o/u to be a lot more conservative with ammo. I dont waste near the bullets that I use to on that third shot. The only thing I ever found the third shot to be good for was on big groups or to finish off a cripple.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby mudpack » Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:56 pm

bigdane wrote:The only thing I ever found the third shot to be good for was on big groups or to finish off a cripple.

That's correct. With an O/U in those situations you are out of luck. I kill birds on my third shot often enough that I feel at a distinct disadvantage with a 2-shot gun.
Some hunters like using an O/U, and they have valid reasons. I feel that the several unarguable advantages of the autoloader tip the scales for me.
There are good reasons that the autoloader is the most popular type of shotgun used in American waterfowling. (With the pump coming in a close, but fading, second. The double gun accounts for such a small number that it is nearly an effective zero)
I must admit, when I see a someone in the marsh with a Browning or Winchester or Remington O/U, I have to give him/her credit.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:44 pm

greyson1 wrote:I guess i'll have to disagree with mudpack on this one, as i prefer a o/u for duck & goose hunting for different reasons. And one being the choke selection. The o/u i use has a simple slide of the tang safety to switch barrels/chokes, as most do, and isn't that complicated even in the heat of the moment. But to be honest it usually stays @ close range first shot then medium range shot next. Never really felt the need for a 3rd shot, as its usually a 40 yrd + longer range crap shot anyways :beer:


I agree. I hunt a 30" Citori for everything and with rare exception keep in the IMP/MOD chokes. I drop more birds with 2 shells than I ever did with 3. Never jammed either... :lol3: Don't worry about what load and I can reload faster than a semi-auto.

I've found distinct advantages over having a 3'rd shot.

If you're dropping 9 birds with 3 shots you're probably over your limit most of the time if not full of it.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby Griffin4590 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:01 pm

3 guys drop 9 birds on 9 shots. :tongue: not sure where you hunt but 3 birds isn't over our limit here.
I drop more birds with 2 shells than I ever did with 3

A + B isn't equal to C here. you basically said you miss more if you shoot more? your O/U isn't more accurate I think iot prob just fits you better and thus you shoot it better. If you had a auto that you could shoot as well as you do your O/U then i'm sure you would kill more with 3 shots. its simple math

Seriously tho i'm just giving you a hard time. I said myself i shot an O/U for time to time and have a lot of fun doing it, its just not my weapon of choice. Different strokes for different fokes
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:20 am

Griffin4590 wrote:3 guys drop 9 birds on 9 shots. :tongue: not sure where you hunt but 3 birds isn't over our limit here.
I drop more birds with 2 shells than I ever did with 3

A + B isn't equal to C here. you basically said you miss more if you shoot more? your O/U isn't more accurate I think iot prob just fits you better and thus you shoot it better. If you had a auto that you could shoot as well as you do your O/U then i'm sure you would kill more with 3 shots. its simple math

Seriously tho i'm just giving you a hard time. I said myself i shot an O/U for time to time and have a lot of fun doing it, its just not my weapon of choice. Different strokes for different fokes


:lol3: I read that as 9 birds in 3 shots!

I agree gun fit and swing have a lot to do with how well you shoot.

But I think there's value to an O/U the hardcoded semi-guys don't get but might have something to do with how one hunts.

First...most of the time the first shot is the closest so the IMP choke is fine and the second MOD shot are birds flaring off. That said, and has been said, I always have a choice at my thumb. Second, I can more easily pick a shot size...might run #3's through the IMP and #2's through the MOD. In other cases pull #3's from the gun on a goose flight and slap in BB's. That is a lot easier in an O/U than a semi. Mixed flights, might run a #2 and a #BB. In addition to being easier, it's also quieter and safer with an O/U.

Gun never jams, likes every shell. Easier to make safe and easier to find hulls. I can reload quicker. Unless a gun is really 'broke'...not much chance it leaves me hanging when in the field.

I have dropped triples with an O/U although I can't say I like to. On a one hen mallard limit the accidental bird gets dicey. We're typically not shooting huge flocks - a lot of pairs yes. Maybe flights of 1/2 dozen at times. Dropping doubles is fine with me.

The only advantage ever claimed is the '3rd' shot yet I read through shotgun forums laden with people semi 'problems'.

I drop a lot more birds with the O/U than I ever did with the Beretta Semi or the Benelli despite the '3rd' shot. That goes for upland as well.

Where I might feel different is hunting big water and diving birds that need crip-shot. In the wetland and potholes I let the dog have that fun.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:25 am

TheBigTim wrote:Why are over/under shotguns more expensive than Semi automatic shotguns?


2 Barrels.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby Sagebrush » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:14 am

A O/U is a "Lookie,what I got" gun with all the whistles and bells and custom barrels,trigger settings,stock adjustments,
plus all the silver and gold that has been placed all over the receiver and other parts of the gun. The main reason for
the higher prices,due to all the hours of gunsmithing,that goes into making and fitting,these guns. (and SxS )

Most Autos and pumps are a working gun and usually do not have the bells and whistles to keep the prices down for the
average hunter, since all that gold and silver does nothing to help kill the birds !!

You can get plain Janes or order the high grade guns, just depends on what turns you on.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby mudpack » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:45 am

HNTFSH wrote:I agree gun fit and swing have a lot to do with how well you shoot.
This might be why you drop more birds with your O/U now than you did with your auto then. Or, maybe the additional experience has made you a better shot.
But I think there's value to an O/U the hardcoded semi-guys don't get but might have something to do with how one hunts.

First...most of the time the first shot is the closest so the IMP choke is fine and the second MOD shot are birds flaring off. That said, and has been said, I always have a choice at my thumb.
Not always, not after you've fired the first shot. then, you are stuck with whatever is left, just like an auto.
Second, I can more easily pick a shot size...might run #3's through the IMP and #2's through the MOD. In other cases pull #3's from the gun on a goose flight and slap in BB's. That is a lot easier in an O/U than a semi. Mixed flights, might run a #2 and a #BB. In addition to being easier, it's also quieter and safer with an O/U.
I'll give you that: it's easier/faster to switch the two loads in an O/U than the three loads in a auto. But, using this logic, would a single shot be even better?? :biggrin:

Gun never jams, likes every shell. Easier to make safe and easier to find hulls. I can reload quicker. Unless a gun is really 'broke'...not much chance it leaves me hanging when in the field.
YOUR gun has never jammed, and likes every shell. Go to the target forums; the trap, skeet, and sporting clays shooters can give you a ton of "broken O/U" stories as well as O/U's that won't fire certain shells (light primer strikes).
I have dropped triples with an O/U although I can't say I like to. On a one hen mallard limit the accidental bird gets dicey. We're typically not shooting huge flocks - a lot of pairs yes. Maybe flights of 1/2 dozen at times. Dropping doubles is fine with me.
You're missing the point. A semi can drop multiple birds with one shot just as easily as an O/U, but I'm sure you know this. Dropping doubles is fine. Dropping three birds from one flock with three shots is even finer. The O/U shooter will never experience this awesome accomplishment. :no:
The only advantage ever claimed is the '3rd' shot yet I read through shotgun forums laden with people semi 'problems'.
Not quite, Spanky. How about reduced felt recoil? How about better quality for the same money, or equal quality for less money?
Also, you are acknowledging the advantage of a third shot, right after stating all the reasons why you think is it not....?

I drop a lot more birds with the O/U than I ever did with the Beretta Semi or the Benelli despite the '3rd' shot. That goes for upland as well.
See my first response at the top of this post.
Where I might feel different is hunting big water and diving birds that need crip-shot. In the wetland and potholes I let the dog have that fun.You could just as easily let that cripple go ("for the dog") when shooting an auto, no? I've seen birds escape a dog in the marsh; birds that could have been quickly anchored with a third shot but weren't because the shooter wanted to "let the dog get it". You don't have to shoot an O/U to let the dog have fun. .

Priorities. That's how I see the choice of which gun you take hunting; priorities. Not all hunters share the same priorities. I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby mudpack » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:52 am

HNTFSH wrote:
TheBigTim wrote:Why are over/under shotguns more expensive than Semi automatic shotguns?


2 Barrels.


Fact is, many times they aren't more expensive.
There are a ton of cheap O/U's on the market from Turkey and Russia that cost less than even a mid-range autoloader. There are autoloaders that cost twice or even three times what a cheap O/U cost.
The top line O/U's cost more than the top line autoloaders... no doubt about that... but there are reasons far beyond the added cost of a second barrel.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:17 pm

mudpack wrote:
HNTFSH wrote:
TheBigTim wrote:Why are over/under shotguns more expensive than Semi automatic shotguns?


2 Barrels.


Fact is, many times they aren't more expensive.
There are a ton of cheap O/U's on the market from Turkey and Russia that cost less than even a mid-range autoloader. There are autoloaders that cost twice or even three times what a cheap O/U cost.
The top line O/U's cost more than the top line autoloaders... no doubt about that... but there are reasons far beyond the added cost of a second barrel.


Gun for gun, all things being equal - 2 barrels cost more than 1.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby TomKat » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:28 pm

There must not be many field hunters on this thread. It should be pointed out that if you are shooting 3" BB's you do get some relief from the recoil with an autoloader.

I have in fact tripled on geese from a lay out blind. Would have never happened with an O/U.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:33 pm

This might be why you drop more birds with your O/U now than you did with your auto then. Or, maybe the additional experience has made you a better shot.

Maybe being 50 and over a gun for 40 years has taught me something...dunno...hope so. Like I said - I agree with fit and I also see a lot of thrown away 1st shots and hail-mary 3rd shots from semi-shooters. Something a double gun forces out of many shooters. Maybe even me, maybe not you. but certainly a good number.

I'll give you that: it's easier/faster to switch the two loads in an O/U than the three loads in a auto. But, using this logic, would a single shot be even better??

Weak.

YOUR gun has never jammed, and likes every shell. Go to the target forums; the trap, skeet, and sporting clays shooters can give you a ton of "broken O/U" stories as well as O/U's that won't fire certain shells (light primer strikes).

A bad firing pin is a bad firing pin. Doesn't matter what gun it is. A quick peruse of the shotgun forums are pretty telling where the problems are in semi's. I discount cheap O/U's as a problem. The problem is buying one to begin with. True with any firearm.

You're missing the point. A semi can drop multiple birds with one shot just as easily as an O/U, but I'm sure you know this. Dropping doubles is fine. Dropping three birds from one flock with three shots is even finer. The O/U shooter will never experience this awesome accomplishment. :no:

As stated before I have dropped many a triple with an O/U. If we're gonna call that birds-flying-into-patterns it doesn't mean the same didn't happen with a semi. :rolleyes: So I guess a trip with an O/U trumps a trip on a semi! :lol3:

Not quite, Spanky. How about reduced felt recoil? How about better quality for the same money, or equal quality for less money?

I guess recoil is a consideration I just don't consider. Shooting trap or skeet load just ain't that damaging. On birds, hunting...gotta be honest, I never feel recoil or barely hear the shot. Nor am I throwing brass in anybody's face.

Also, you are acknowledging the advantage of a third shot, right after stating all the reasons why you think is it not....?

It is rare I need to swat a crip so the advantage of a third shot is less advantageous for the reasons stated for shooting an O/U.

See my first response at the top of this post.
Already covered it.

You could just as easily let that cripple go ("for the dog") when shooting an auto, no? I've seen birds escape a dog in the marsh; birds that could have been quickly anchored with a third shot but weren't because the shooter wanted to "let the dog get it". You don't have to shoot an O/U to let the dog have fun.

An empty O/U is no different than an empty semi brotha. All those trip shots with a crip, your gun is empty too. But I'm on the reload quicker.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:46 pm

TomKat wrote:There must not be many field hunters on this thread. It should be pointed out that if you are shooting 3" BB's you do get some relief from the recoil with an autoloader.

I have in fact tripled on geese from a lay out blind. Would have never happened with an O/U.


Tomkat - I shoot 3" BB's with no ill effect and we're the same age. Man up. :hammer: :lol3: The weight of a good O/U takes out the punch.

Our season limit is two geese per day - doubles end the hunt but I take the shot.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:15 pm

mudpack wrote:Priorities. That's how I see the choice of which gun you take hunting; priorities. Not all hunters share the same priorities. I wouldn't have it any other way.


Couldn't agree more. I tout what I feel are 'overlooked' virtues of the O/U. Lots of monkey-see, monkey-do, in waterfowling. I don't shoot one to be different, I shoot one cause it works better at several levels.
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby TomKat » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:18 pm

HNTFSH wrote:
TomKat wrote:There must not be many field hunters on this thread. It should be pointed out that if you are shooting 3" BB's you do get some relief from the recoil with an autoloader.

I have in fact tripled on geese from a lay out blind. Would have never happened with an O/U.


Tomkat - I shoot 3" BB's with no ill effect and we're the same age. Man up. :hammer: :lol3: The weight of a good O/U takes out the punch.

Our season limit is two geese per day - doubles end the hunt but I take the shot.


I shot a number of 3" BB, Heavyshot, dead coyote, and #4 buckshot from the bench Sat. From a mossberg pump.

I have shot everything from a .458 win to a .22 short. I can take the recoil.

But in fact, I do enjoy the benefit of a lighter gun to carry ( The weight of a good O/U takes out the punch. ) not to mention lighter recoil. We have a limit of 3 geese here, so #3 shot becomes a sort of game with in a game. If you are on the X, can call, and are hidden, its VERY COOL to limit out with your first volley. You and I are playing that same game, but up here ya gotta be just a tad quicker....

Lets face it bud- everyone has the gun they think is the best for them. I am never going to sell my M2, I put a lot of thought into it before I bought it and it has not let me down. I have owned side by sides, pumps, o/u and auto loaders. I even had the Marlin Goose gun. Nothing at all wrong with an O/U for duck hunting, but in MY CASE it just leaves me wanting a bit.

I want that 3rd goose!
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Re: Over under vs. semi automatic

Postby HNTFSH » Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:26 pm

Have to see what I can find in a triple barrel if I come out that way.
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