Which one.......

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Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:13 pm

Hey Guys,
I am looking at getting a new Duck Gun before the season starts in VT. I cant get anything expensive like a Benelli. 11-87's are out of the question. I have heard to many bad things about them. I really want to get an auto. Stoeger is the best bet for me. If I get a Stoeger I want to get a 3000 or 3500. I also want to know what choke would be the best for use with a stoeger. I know you guys can help me.
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Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:41 pm

Eddie,
The m3500 is a price point gun. In that same price range you can also get a Beretta 390 (now 3901).

The difference is stoeger = 3.5" and inertia driven recoil; beretta = 3" and gas recoil.

It boils down to preference.

The 3500 should come with 5 chokes. As for which one to use, you really need to pattern the load and chokes to figure out which one. IC - Mod will cover most all duck hunting situations. I like a LM choke.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:41 pm

Hey yareelohim,
Thanks for the info. I figured it would come down to patterning the chokes. So I'm guessing "The m3500 is a price point gun" means it is a good gun? If so awesome.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:39 pm

Sorry that was supposed to read:
Good price point gun.

Yeah it's a good gun.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:43 pm

Awesome,
Another question. My uncle and cousin both use Stoegers and Kent Fasteels. The kind in the gray box. Now my question, would Winchester experts be a good shell to use because Kents are up there in price and I dont feel like buying a ton of boxes of Winchesters if they suck. I used them in an 870 and they were pretty good.
Any help is appreciated. :fingerhead:
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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:05 pm

Stoeger, benelli, beretta, are Italian guns (though they may be manufactured in turkey).

These Italian guns are known for their "skinny" barrels. Smaller bore diameter than a standard 12ga.

With the skinny barrel guns, they seem to perform best with wads that have thin plastic walls (most Italian made wads). Kent uses thin wads in their faststeel which may be why they produce good patterns in these gun (generally speaking).

However, I have shot many Win Xperts and they have performed very well for me in all my guns. If you cut them open you will notice they have missed shaped pellets of all different sizes. They still seems to work very well for me and a lot of other people as well.

If you can pattern, pattern! Know the distance you take waterfowl at most and chose the appropriate size choke for that distance and pattern at that distance.

I take most waterfowl between 25-35 yards and find my LM choke works best for that range and a little beyond according to my patterns and field results.

Really practice shooting birds too! Remember to swing through or keep a lead and follow through. I generally point at the bill of the duck or just in front and slap my trigger as I follow that lead. I have literally taken the heads off ducks! Learn to lead...not too far in front...go for the tip of the bill or just in front.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby mudpack » Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:27 pm

yareelohim wrote:Stoeger, benelli, beretta, are Italian guns (though they may be manufactured in turkey).
These Italian guns are known for their "skinny" barrels. Smaller bore diameter than a standard 12ga.


My A391 has what Beretta calls an "Optima Bore". It is an overbored barrel profile, i.e. a larger bore diameter than standard 12ga. bore diameter, and similar to Browning/Winchester's Invector Plus (also larger than standard ID). No 12ga., of any manufacturer, that I am aware of has a bore that is smaller than standard.
The phrase "skinny barrel" is usually, and more accurately, applied to the wall thickness of various manufacturer's gun's barrels, not their bore diameter.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:14 pm

I do believe your mistaken.

The standard/nominal bore diameter for a 12 gauge is: .729

The beretta "skinny barrel" is .723 below the standard 12 gauge.

The beretta optima is .732 which is just about on par with a standard 12 gauge.

The "overbored" barrels are a nominal .745 which is much larger than standard 12 gauge.

However, the mossberg 935 and 835 are overbored to .775

SAMMI limits the overbore to a max .779-.780 I believe.

When referencing the "in general" portion of beretta, I am referencing "skinny barrel" like the 390 and 2000 previously mentioned and their acceptance of the thin walled wads like B&P. I am not referencing the guns which haven't been mentioned.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Hat Flats » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:04 pm

The 3901 is not made in Turkey, the barrel is, but not the rest of the gun. The A-300 has been getting rave reviews also.
All of the guns in the Beretta family by Stoeger, Benelli, Franchi and Beretta with Mobil Chokes will run the smaller I.D. Barrels @ .725 max (normally smaller like yarlee said), even Crio choked Benelli's run .723 I.D. The European Standard that Beretta must live under limits them to a .735 Maximum bore Dia in 12 gauge guns, So i'm told.

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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:24 am

Hat Flats wrote:The European Standard that Beretta must live under limits them to a .735 Maximum bore Dia in 12 gauge guns, So i'm told.


That is interesting. I wasn't aware the European standard had a max bore diameter but it makes sense. I wondered why they didn't push their over bored barrel to a .745 or larger. This makes sense. It's a skinny over bore lol.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby mudpack » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:08 am

yareelohim wrote:I do believe your mistaken.
The standard/nominal bore diameter for a 12 gauge is: .729
The beretta optima is .732 which is just about on par with a standard 12 gauge.

So, yare', looking at your own figures you tell me; is the Optima-Bore larger (as Beretta claims)or smaller(as you claimed) than the standard 12 gauge bore?
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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:20 am

I never referenced the optima bore you only felt the need to respond to something I didn't say.

Re read what I wrote.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby mudpack » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:25 am

yareelohim wrote:When referencing the "in general" portion of beretta, I am referencing "skinny barrel" like the 390 and 2000 previously mentioned and their acceptance of the thin walled wads like B&P. I am not referencing the guns which haven't been mentioned.


Then you should have said that in the original post, instead of
yareelohim wrote:Stoeger, benelli, beretta, are Italian guns.... Italian guns are known for their "skinny" barrels. Smaller bore diameter than a standard 12ga.


Fact is: The Beretta A391 has a bore that is larger than standard, not smaller (per your own figures). I point this out so that the naive among the readers don't interpret your statement to mean that all Italian guns have smaller than standard bores.
As a retired engineer and technical writer, I am trained to be aware of potentially-misleading statements. Your's was possibly misleading, even if you didn't intend for it to be. Peace.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:44 am

I might also add.

Your the one stating no 12ga has a smaller diameter than a standard 12ga...which i have already shown you is mistaken.

Furthermore you claimed the "smaller" numbers were in reference to the "thickness" of the barrel wall and not the internal diameter of the barrel...again mistaken which i have shown.

It's okay to have misspoken.

Remember the context of this thread...we are speaking about the Beretta 390 (3901) and Stoeger M2000-3500 and specifically their chokes.

Those are the lines of guns being referenced which are all .723 diameter, no mention of any guns using Optima bore, thus no need to reference it.

Go look at all my past posts where I DO reference over bored barrels for people. You will find I am in favor of the over bore just no need to discuss it here.

No you can see...your responding to what I never said and your response to misspoken to begin with.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:41 pm

Hey Guys,
I am not sure if I need to know all that info. If I am or if it would be helpful let me know what part is. Also if it helps it will either be the 3000 or the 3500.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Hat Flats » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:09 pm

Fact is: The Beretta A391 has a bore that is larger than standard, not smaller (per your own figures). I point this out so that the naive among the readers don't interpret your statement to mean that all Italian guns have smaller than standard bores.
As a retired engineer and technical writer, I am trained to be aware of potentially-misleading statements. Your's was possibly misleading, even if you didn't intend for it to be. Peace.[/quote]

Incorrect in one respect, early Al-391's also came with Mobil Choke Barrels @.723ID prior to the Optima bore and Optima plus in AL-391 Urika 2's.

Sharkman...FYI a Beretta 390/3901 is a big step-up from any of the Stoeger's and the best deal for the money you will find.

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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:21 pm

Sharkman...


You don't need to know any of that barrel diameter stuff which is why i didn't post that for you.

I don't know why Mudpack felt the need to bring up over bored barrels.

You just need to know your barrel is slightly smaller and does well with Italian loads since they generally use thin wads.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:34 pm

Pheww! I wasn't going to remember that. That got me pretty damn confused. So to recap on the shells Winchesters and Kents should be fine. Also what should I use for a magazine plug or whatever you want to call it.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:16 pm

Yes. Pretty much any shell will be fine. The payload (weight in oz) and size of the shot (I.e. #3) are what really matter, not so much brand.

I like a 1 1/4oz #3 shot for ducks when I shoot factory ammo, and 1 3/8oz BB when i shoot geese with factory ammo.

Your magazine should already have a plug in it. If not, you can use a wood dowel or just about anything which will not allow more than 2 shells in the mag.
"For the High and Exalted One who lives forever, whose name is Holy says this: 'I live in a high and holy place, and with the oppressed and lowly of spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and revive the heart of the oppressed." - Isaiah57:15
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:15 pm

Awesome info yareelohim. This is all really helpful
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Re: Which one.......

Postby yareelohim » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:05 pm

No problem...hopefully all the unnecessary info didn't overwhelm you lol.
"For the High and Exalted One who lives forever, whose name is Holy says this: 'I live in a high and holy place, and with the oppressed and lowly of spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly and revive the heart of the oppressed." - Isaiah57:15
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:44 pm

It didn't overload me too much.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Rainyduck » Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:00 am

16 or 12 gauge (remington) :help:
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Re: Which one.......

Postby mtfowler » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:01 pm

Sharkman

I shoot an M3500 with Winchester experts 2's and BB, IC and M factory chokes and do just fine, the 3.5 BB and Mod. choke does have some holes in the pattern at 40 yds. but looks good with 2's, I shoot mostly 3" Experts and they pattern pretty well out to 50 yds. in my gun but you have to shoot yours to see for sure.
Sent from the dog house.
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Re: Which one.......

Postby Sharkman » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:23 pm

Awesome thanks guys.
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