10 Gauge Pressures

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10 Gauge Pressures

Postby JDWilliams » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:47 pm

I am 14 years old and shoot my BPS 10 and got to wondering why they don't increase the pressures of the 10 gauge. If they can get a 12 gauge up so high why can't they get the 10 up that high. It would be amazing to see the damage it would do to some geese and large ducks if it could stand a pressure as high as the 3 1/2 in. 12.
The 10 is still the gun for waterfowl.... If you can handle it.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby winchester1852 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:52 pm

it would probably screw the pattern or damage the gun. maybe neither
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby BigGoonTuna » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:15 am

it's a SAAMI standardization thing. the 10 gauge 3.5" magnum standard was developed many years before the 3.5" 12 gauge was. some older guns might not be able to handle the pressure of hot loads, in theory at least.

i've often thought that someone should make a 3" 16 gauge gun, and have it allow for higher pressures like the 3.5" 12 gauge is capable of.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby tripleb » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:47 am

There are a lot of older guns, bolt action and break action which would problem loosen up under repeated pounding of high pressure loads. That's one of the reasons the 30/06 isn't loaded as hot by the factories as is the .308. There are guns like the model 95 Winchester chambered in 30/06. All .308's are chambered in more modern guns ..... at least by the factories.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby apexhunter » Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:44 am

BigGoonTuna wrote:i've often thought that someone should make a 3" 16 gauge gun, and have it allow for higher pressures like the 3.5" 12 gauge is capable of.


What would be the use? A 3" 16ga would have the same payload and velocity as a normal 12ga load and you wouldn't have to mess with what is agruably the most perfect round/gun ever made (IMHO)...and deal with terrible patterns. As much as I love shooting my sweet 16 I have never considered or found the need for 3" capacity in the gauge as it would attempt to duplicate what my 3" 12ga is more than capable of delivering.

To the original point, if a 10ga was loaded to the same pressures as a 3-1/2" 12ga the recoil would be so high that nobody would want to pull the trigger.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby woodysniper » Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:46 am

Cause they can already take pressures that are high enough to put grown men on there @$$.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby Norsky » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:56 am

JDWilliams wrote:I am 14 years old and shoot my BPS 10 and got to wondering why they don't increase the pressures of the 10 gauge. If they can get a 12 gauge up so high why can't they get the 10 up that high. It would be amazing to see the damage it would do to some geese and large ducks if it could stand a pressure as high as the 3 1/2 in. 12.


You have a valid point. Like Tripleb stated it is for the "what if" situation. A higher pressure 10 gauge would bring the 10 into its own area. It would be so obvious the difference between the 10 and the 12 no one would consider the 12 3 1/2 anymore. I hope in my lifetime someone raises the bar on it.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby Jon Bergren » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:34 am

When Ballistic Products first published reloading data for the 10 gage they blew up some of the old 10 gages. DoubleDutch was a victim. Some of the British 10 gage guns will go to the 15,000 psi range. Jon.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby Norsky » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:16 pm

I asked a guy from Browning why the 12 3 1/2 and the 10 are different pressures. All he could say was they are made on the same machines. Make a 3 3/4" 10 gauge and be done with it. I would say most reloading company's have had bad data. I am just glad someone still has enough guts to keep making data. As far as I know RSI, PR, Alliant and Lyman data is very dated. Getting close to 10 years old if you ask about it.
Last edited by Norsky on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby BT Justice » Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:42 pm

Basically the factories are are afraid someone will drag out an older 10 ga gun and blow it up.
Most of the 10 ga factory loads I have pressure tested on the Pressure Trace aren't running much more than 10,000 psi.

Most of the loads I shoot in my Gold or SP-10 I pressure test out to 12,000 psi, that's about my limits . It makes a world of difference in performance vs factory loads.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby baltz526 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:21 pm

It would be interesting to pressure test some of the reloads out there. I have a few in my pile I'm not shooting in my modern 10ga's. :eek: I'm happy with the 1 3/8oz 1600fps load that is probably under 12,000psi
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:09 pm

My BPS's barrels are stamped "Made in Japan" and my Hastings Wadlock barrel "Made in France". Since these products are made off the North American continent are they in fact made for higher operating pressures than SAAMI?
And what of the Beretta and Benelli shotguns made in Italy?
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby lostknife4 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:56 am

apexhunter wrote:To the original point, if a 10ga was loaded to the same pressures as a 3-1/2" 12ga the recoil would be so high that nobody would want to pull the trigger.

That's what they said about the 12 ga 3-1/2" !!!!!!! And a lot of people don't.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby jrp267 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:50 pm

The recoil would actually be less. The 10 is heavier therefore felt recoil is less. My gold ten is a dream to shoot. And I prefer it over my benelli nova. I would love to buy factory loads at 1600 fps but I shoot 1450 and seem to do fine.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Apr 07, 2013 7:52 am

jrp267 wrote:The recoil would actually be less. The 10 is heavier therefore felt recoil is less. My gold ten is a dream to shoot. And I prefer it over my benelli nova. I would love to buy factory loads at 1600 fps but I shoot 1450 and seem to do fine.


While I agree with your findings in part, due to the weight of your particular guns, that is only a portion of the reality of the situation. Recoil is a function of the weight of the powder, shotcup and shot and its Muzzle velocity compared to the weight of the gun and it's rearward velocity. John Taylor's "Shotshells and Ballistics" manual page 43 ff describe the effect of recoil using a 10 lb 10 ga and all other ga's he used an 8 lb gun. He further calculated some recoil energy using Lowry's ballistics program and published those results in Table 9.1 on page 43. Further information on recoil was gleaned from Hatcher's Notebook Chapter XII "The theory of Recoil" page 279 ff where considerable explanations of the theory of recoil is discussed, evaluated and discussions on the "Principles of Physics Involved in Recoil Calculation", the "Three Elements of Recoil", Internal ballistic recoil "Recoil Before the Bullet Leaves the Gun" and some discussion on the effects of the propellant gases after leaving the barrel and uses as an analogy Rocket Propulsion.
What this all boils down essentially is the heavier the shot , shotcup and powder charge the heavier the recoil, independent of gauge of the gun.Taylor notes that one traditional means used to reduce recoil is using a heavier gun. Interestingly too he notes that porting 's attenuation of the rearward displacement of the gun is minimal but it's ability to retard the vertical displacement of the barrel is immediately apparent!
KPY will confirm the above.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby jrp267 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:16 pm

lostknife4 wrote:
jrp267 wrote:The recoil would actually be less. The 10 is heavier therefore felt recoil is less. My gold ten is a dream to shoot. And I prefer it over my benelli nova. I would love to buy factory loads at 1600 fps but I shoot 1450 and seem to do fine.


While I agree with your findings in part, due to the weight of your particular guns, that is only a portion of the reality of the situation. Recoil is a function of the weight of the powder, shotcup and shot and its Muzzle velocity compared to the weight of the gun and it's rearward velocity. John Taylor's "Shotshells and Ballistics" manual page 43 ff describe the effect of recoil using a 10 lb 10 ga and all other ga's he used an 8 lb gun. He further calculated some recoil energy using Lowry's ballistics program and published those results in Table 9.1 on page 43. Further information on recoil was gleaned from Hatcher's Notebook Chapter XII "The theory of Recoil" page 279 ff where considerable explanations of the theory of recoil is discussed, evaluated and discussions on the "Principles of Physics Involved in Recoil Calculation", the "Three Elements of Recoil", Internal ballistic recoil "Recoil Before the Bullet Leaves the Gun" and some discussion on the effects of the propellant gases after leaving the barrel and uses as an analogy Rocket Propulsion.
What this all boils down essentially is the heavier the shot , shotcup and powder charge the heavier the recoil, independent of gauge of the gun.Taylor notes that one traditional means used to reduce recoil is using a heavier gun. Interestingly too he notes that porting 's attenuation of the rearward displacement of the gun is minimal but it's ability to retard the vertical displacement of the barrel is immediately apparent!
KPY will confirm the above.


Lost


While I believe all you wrote, a ten loaded with the same amount of powder and weight of shot would then have less recoil right?
So a 3 1/2 12 gauge with 1 5/8 oz shot pushing 1600 fps should have significantly more recoil than a ten loaded to the same capacity. Of course the ten would most likely pattern better due to the larger bore.
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Re: 10 Gauge Pressures

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:13 pm

Recoil energy depends on the weight of the gun. 10's are generally heavier than souped up 12 ga guns therefore with the same loading and velocity the 10 would likely "kick" less.
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