20 gauge

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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:24 am

Well mudpack you guys think what you want and we'll keep doing what we do. You guys are way over complicating things.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby mudpack » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:27 am

Getting back to apg and the subject: all the manufacturers of good quality shotguns make very nice 20ga versions of their field and target guns. If you stick to the proven brands, you can hardly go wrong. Browning, Ruger, Winchester, Benelli, Beretta, Remington,....they all make (or have made) excellent 20's. Take your pick. Look at, handle, and shoot if possible all the 20's you possibly can. Some will do nothing for you. One or two (or four or five) will whisper "take me home with you".
Your choice is huge: O/U's, if that's your preference. Pumps. Autoloaders. Set your budget and enjoy yourself. :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby apg36820 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:14 am

Generally when an 870 jams it is operator error.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby mudpack » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:57 pm

duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Justin Weber » Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:39 pm

mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.

Exactly
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby cootlover » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:26 pm

You guy's remind me of the two old guy's that told me I couldn't shoot 27 yard trap with my 28 gauge model37 Ithaca well long story short when I shot a 23 out of 25 one of the guy's still couldn't believe it. I don"t know how far you can shoot with your 12 gauges but I no how far I can kill ducks with my little 20 ga :yes:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Twashburn24 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:12 pm

cootlover wrote:You guy's remind me of the two old guy's that told me I couldn't shoot 27 yard trap with my 28 gauge model37 Ithaca well long story short when I shot a 23 out of 25 one of the guy's still couldn't believe it. I don"t know how far you can shoot with your 12 gauges but I no how far I can kill ducks with my little 20 ga :yes:


And knowing how far your capable of shooting successfully is all that matters.... No matter if is a 12g,16g,20g,28 they're all capable of being accurate if you "the shooter" can shoot accurately
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby 1Luckytiger » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:58 pm

Hmmm....20 gauge.....go buy a used John Deere/Caterpillar of th' shotgun world....a REAL-DEAL A-5 Browning in 3" magnum and open chokes...I've got all 5 models...12,16,20,12 magnum, 20 magnum...all work horses...and been USED a lot...still rockin'..nuff said! :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:17 pm

mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby cootlover » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:14 am

It sounds like your super hero NASH should learn how to shoot :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:52 am

duckslayer74 wrote:Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


Neither does anyone else. That's never been the issue.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby trowlan1 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:26 am

duckslayer74 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


If a 12 ga isn't more efficient (due to payload) than a 20 ga (at any distance), why do they bother having seperate 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 classes in the major shooting sports competitions (ie skeet, trap). If a 12 ga has no advantage, why not have just 1 class??
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:06 am

cootlover wrote:It sounds like your super hero NASH should learn how to shoot :thumbsup:


Buckingham was considered a master trap and skeet shooter, as well as fine wingshot, but I don't imagine he was Internet class.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby bloodnguts » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:35 am

I bought a brand new 20 gauge Benelli Montefeltro with 26 inch barrel for my 16 year old son to use when he is with me, with an ulterior motive to use it as a grouse gun when he is not with me. We haven't shot it yet, but it was pretty tough to find a bad review on that gun. I picked up a 12 gauge Montefeltro with 26 inch barrel to use as my primary all around bird killing gun from grouse to geese. I've only put a couple boxes of shells through it, but man is it a sweet shooter and pointer. I also shot three inch loads through it, which people said is kinda rough out of the lightweight Montefeltro, but I didn't even notice the recoil. I do notice the recoil from my 12 gauge Remington Wingmaster when shooting three inch loads, but that gun is now my backup. That 20 gauge Montefeltro is supposed to weight only 5 1/2 pounds or so, but when decked out with waterfowl clothes, I don't think the recoil of a three inch shell will be that horrible. As you might have guessed, I love the look and feel of wood stocks. A few scratches here and there don't break my heart, as they just serve as clear mental reminders of great days in the field.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Rick Hall » Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:49 am

bloodnguts wrote:As you might have guessed, I love the look and feel and wood stocks. A few scratches here and there don't break my heart, as they just serve as clear mental reminders of great days in the field.


Puts me in mind of the line in the Chesapeake Bay Retriever Standard that reads, "Honest scars should not be penalized."

Fwiw, my old HK imported Montefeltro 20 has been far better to me than I've been to it:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:32 pm

Rick Hall wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


Neither does anyone else. That's never been the issue.


If you'd read what mudpack said about 12ga's killing more ducks per season than a 20ga you'd understand why I wrote that post. :no:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:39 pm

And about Nash Buckingham, he's been dead for 42 years and was 91 years old when he died. Alot has changed in the guns and ammunition just since his death let alone when he was in his shooting prime. Nobody here has proven that a 12ga is better at killing ducks, besides my birds per hunt went up this year by almost 1 bird per outing and that was with my 20ga exclusivly.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:03 pm

trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


If a 12 ga isn't more efficient (due to payload) than a 20 ga (at any distance), why do they bother having seperate 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 classes in the major shooting sports competitions (ie skeet, trap). If a 12 ga has no advantage, why not have just 1 class??


For one, trap has no classes for different gauges. And 12ga's are'nt more efficient, they have more pellets per shell and that gives you a better chance of breaking a target or bird even if your not quite on. Here's an example of a 12ga being less efficient, a broken target or a dead bird is the same weather your shooting 1 1/8oz out of a 12 or 7/8 oz from a 20 right? Only the 12ga uses more pellets than a 20ga to achieve the same outcome. Also for every 3.?? 12ga shells shot that would be enough extra pellets to give you an extra 20ga shell.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby trowlan1 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:35 pm

duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


If a 12 ga isn't more efficient (due to payload) than a 20 ga (at any distance), why do they bother having seperate 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 classes in the major shooting sports competitions (ie skeet, trap). If a 12 ga has no advantage, why not have just 1 class??


For one, trap has no classes for different gauges. And 12ga's are'nt more efficient, they have more pellets per shell and that gives you a better chance of breaking a target or bird even if your not quite on. Here's an example of a 12ga being less efficient, a broken target or a dead bird is the same weather your shooting 1 1/8oz out of a 12 or 7/8 oz from a 20 right? Only the 12ga uses more pellets than a 20ga to achieve the same outcome. Also for every 3.?? 12ga shells shot that would be enough extra pellets to give you an extra 20ga shell.


Ok....forgive the mistake with trap. Ill admit I'm no expert in it. However, you sidestepped my question. Why does skeet competition have 12/20/28/410 classes instead of just one if there is no competitive advantage by going up a gauge over shooters of smaller gauges. No one ever said that you couldn't efficiently kill birds or clays with a 20 gauge, I myself hunt with one often. The entire debate is centered around whether or not increasing pattern density (in this case via a heavier payload) improves your odds of killing birds at long range. Which without question it does. Obviously though it is not the only factor in being efficient shot, or even the most important one.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby cootlover » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:19 pm

not sure why's there is different classes in skeet I have shot perfect scores with my 12ga my 20ga and 410 haven't done with my new 28 yet still working on the stock actually I shot way more 25's with my 20 ga than 12. my best with my 410 is 98 out of 100 so I am not sure why there is different groups there is no need. 25 is 25 not matter what ga your shooting sorry to who every started this forum we got off track at the end of the day shoot what you like love coot :beer:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:57 pm

trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


If a 12 ga isn't more efficient (due to payload) than a 20 ga (at any distance), why do they bother having seperate 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 classes in the major shooting sports competitions (ie skeet, trap). If a 12 ga has no advantage, why not have just 1 class??


For one, trap has no classes for different gauges. And 12ga's are'nt more efficient, they have more pellets per shell and that gives you a better chance of breaking a target or bird even if your not quite on. Here's an example of a 12ga being less efficient, a broken target or a dead bird is the same weather your shooting 1 1/8oz out of a 12 or 7/8 oz from a 20 right? Only the 12ga uses more pellets than a 20ga to achieve the same outcome. Also for every 3.?? 12ga shells shot that would be enough extra pellets to give you an extra 20ga shell.


Ok....forgive the mistake with trap. Ill admit I'm no expert in it. However, you sidestepped my question. Why does skeet competition have 12/20/28/410 classes instead of just one if there is no competitive advantage by going up a gauge over shooters of smaller gauges. No one ever said that you couldn't efficiently kill birds or clays with a 20 gauge, I myself hunt with one often. The entire debate is centered around whether or not increasing pattern density (in this case via a heavier payload) improves your odds of killing birds at long range. Which without question it does. Obviously though it is not the only factor in being efficient shot, or even the most important one.


The different classes is to keep the playing field the same, less shot from the smaller gauges means you'd better be on your target. I think we agree more than you think. If we're talking pattern density then thats where we'd probably agree. I shoot a very tight choke to keep all my shot in the pattern dense where as you could open up the choke on a 12ga and give yourself a larger pattern that'd be just as dense. That being said, In the right hands a 20ga will kill just as many ducks/targets as a 12ga at the same distances of a 12ga. Will I start my son on a 12ga for ducks? Yes, if the gun fits and the recoil doesn't bother him much I will, the extra pellets over a 20 will increase his odds. Bottom line though is a 20ga is just as lethal as a 12ga in the right hands, even at distance.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby Fowl'in up NORTH » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:44 pm

duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


If a 12 ga isn't more efficient (due to payload) than a 20 ga (at any distance), why do they bother having seperate 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 classes in the major shooting sports competitions (ie skeet, trap). If a 12 ga has no advantage, why not have just 1 class??


For one, trap has no classes for different gauges. And 12ga's are'nt more efficient, they have more pellets per shell and that gives you a better chance of breaking a target or bird even if your not quite on. Here's an example of a 12ga being less efficient, a broken target or a dead bird is the same weather your shooting 1 1/8oz out of a 12 or 7/8 oz from a 20 right? Only the 12ga uses more pellets than a 20ga to achieve the same outcome. Also for every 3.?? 12ga shells shot that would be enough extra pellets to give you an extra 20ga shell.


Ok....forgive the mistake with trap. Ill admit I'm no expert in it. However, you sidestepped my question. Why does skeet competition have 12/20/28/410 classes instead of just one if there is no competitive advantage by going up a gauge over shooters of smaller gauges. No one ever said that you couldn't efficiently kill birds or clays with a 20 gauge, I myself hunt with one often. The entire debate is centered around whether or not increasing pattern density (in this case via a heavier payload) improves your odds of killing birds at long range. Which without question it does. Obviously though it is not the only factor in being efficient shot, or even the most important one.


The different classes is to keep the playing field the same, less shot from the smaller gauges means you'd better be on your target. I think we agree more than you think. If we're talking pattern density then thats where we'd probably agree. I shoot a very tight choke to keep all my shot in the pattern dense where as you could open up the choke on a 12ga and give yourself a larger pattern that'd be just as dense. That being said, In the right hands a 20ga will kill just as many ducks/targets as a 12ga at the same distances of a 12ga. Will I start my son on a 12ga for ducks? Yes, if the gun fits and the recoil doesn't bother him much I will, the extra pellets over a 20 will increase his odds. Bottom line though is a 20ga is just as lethal as a 12ga in the right hands, even at distance.



That would be the same as saying a .22lr in the right hands is just as effective as a 30-06. Every one knows this isn't true, even though a very lucky bullet can end an animals life if placed precisely.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby cootlover » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:19 pm

Fowlin first off you cant compare 22lr to a 30-06 really let's see 22lr 30-40- grain bullet 1200fps 30-06 150grain bullet 2900fps. 12ga 1oz #2 shot -20ga 7/8oz -#2 can you see how close they are or even 1 1/8 oz :huh:
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby trowlan1 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:48 pm

duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


If a 12 ga isn't more efficient (due to payload) than a 20 ga (at any distance), why do they bother having seperate 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 classes in the major shooting sports competitions (ie skeet, trap). If a 12 ga has no advantage, why not have just 1 class??


For one, trap has no classes for different gauges. And 12ga's are'nt more efficient, they have more pellets per shell and that gives you a better chance of breaking a target or bird even if your not quite on. Here's an example of a 12ga being less efficient, a broken target or a dead bird is the same weather your shooting 1 1/8oz out of a 12 or 7/8 oz from a 20 right? Only the 12ga uses more pellets than a 20ga to achieve the same outcome. Also for every 3.?? 12ga shells shot that would be enough extra pellets to give you an extra 20ga shell.


Ok....forgive the mistake with trap. Ill admit I'm no expert in it. However, you sidestepped my question. Why does skeet competition have 12/20/28/410 classes instead of just one if there is no competitive advantage by going up a gauge over shooters of smaller gauges. No one ever said that you couldn't efficiently kill birds or clays with a 20 gauge, I myself hunt with one often. The entire debate is centered around whether or not increasing pattern density (in this case via a heavier payload) improves your odds of killing birds at long range. Which without question it does. Obviously though it is not the only factor in being efficient shot, or even the most important one.


The different classes is to keep the playing field the same, less shot from the smaller gauges means you'd better be on your target. I think we agree more than you think. If we're talking pattern density then thats where we'd probably agree. I shoot a very tight choke to keep all my shot in the pattern dense where as you could open up the choke on a 12ga and give yourself a larger pattern that'd be just as dense. That being said, In the right hands a 20ga will kill just as many ducks/targets as a 12ga at the same distances of a 12ga. Will I start my son on a 12ga for ducks? Yes, if the gun fits and the recoil doesn't bother him much I will, the extra pellets over a 20 will increase his odds. Bottom line though is a 20ga is just as lethal as a 12ga in the right hands, even at distance.


No argument with most of what you say. Without a doubt skill is the most important factor in killing efficiently. But when you throw "in the hands of an expert", it adds nothing to the argument. thats like saying, Tom Knapp can shoot 10 clays before they hit the ground with a 20 ga (don't know what gauge he shoots, and its not the point) so therefore everyone should be able to do it. The whole part of my argument, and not "in the hands of an expert" that if all things are equal (fit of gun, speed of load, choke size, shot size, same shooter) that with more pellets, in the kill zone you have a better chance at the kill/break. Period.
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Re: 20 gauge

Postby duckslayer74 » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:52 pm

Fowl'in up NORTH wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
trowlan1 wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote:
mudpack wrote:
duckslayer74 wrote: You guys are way over complicating things.


Here, let me simplify things a bit: you'll kill more ducks per season with a 12 gauge than you will with a 20 gauge, especially if you persist in taking 60 yard shots.

Buckingham said, "I shoot ducks with a heavy payload of big shot." He wasn't talking about a 20 gauge.


It doesn't matter what gauge you shoot if you can hit your target. And they quote from Buckingham was his personal prefrence. Also gun that fits the shooter will kill more ducks it's not the gauge of the gun. Do you think a 1oz 2.75" 12ga is going to kill you more ducks than a 1oz load out of a 20ga at the same velocities and shot size? I think not!!!


If a 12 ga isn't more efficient (due to payload) than a 20 ga (at any distance), why do they bother having seperate 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 classes in the major shooting sports competitions (ie skeet, trap). If a 12 ga has no advantage, why not have just 1 class??


For one, trap has no classes for different gauges. And 12ga's are'nt more efficient, they have more pellets per shell and that gives you a better chance of breaking a target or bird even if your not quite on. Here's an example of a 12ga being less efficient, a broken target or a dead bird is the same weather your shooting 1 1/8oz out of a 12 or 7/8 oz from a 20 right? Only the 12ga uses more pellets than a 20ga to achieve the same outcome. Also for every 3.?? 12ga shells shot that would be enough extra pellets to give you an extra 20ga shell.


Ok....forgive the mistake with trap. Ill admit I'm no expert in it. However, you sidestepped my question. Why does skeet competition have 12/20/28/410 classes instead of just one if there is no competitive advantage by going up a gauge over shooters of smaller gauges. No one ever said that you couldn't efficiently kill birds or clays with a 20 gauge, I myself hunt with one often. The entire debate is centered around whether or not increasing pattern density (in this case via a heavier payload) improves your odds of killing birds at long range. Which without question it does. Obviously though it is not the only factor in being efficient shot, or even the most important one.


The different classes is to keep the playing field the same, less shot from the smaller gauges means you'd better be on your target. I think we agree more than you think. If we're talking pattern density then thats where we'd probably agree. I shoot a very tight choke to keep all my shot in the pattern dense where as you could open up the choke on a 12ga and give yourself a larger pattern that'd be just as dense. That being said, In the right hands a 20ga will kill just as many ducks/targets as a 12ga at the same distances of a 12ga. Will I start my son on a 12ga for ducks? Yes, if the gun fits and the recoil doesn't bother him much I will, the extra pellets over a 20 will increase his odds. Bottom line though is a 20ga is just as lethal as a 12ga in the right hands, even at distance.



That would be the same as saying a .22lr in the right hands is just as effective as a 30-06. Every one knows this isn't true, even though a very lucky bullet can end an animals life if placed precisely.


That's stupid!!!!!!!! 2 shot is 2 shot no matter what it's shot out of, not like a rifle bullet. A 22lr at 40grs vs a 30-06 at 150 to 180grs? Think before you post.
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:25 pm
Location: Harrisville, UT

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