which shotgun

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which shotgun

Postby shocktroop » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:28 pm

OK, looking at starting early for next season and looking for a dedicated waterfowl shotgun. This year I used a nice O/U and kept it in pristine condition, but don't want to use it for next season as it's bound to get dinged up, that and it's all polished and has a bright shiney silver engraved reciever....not good for cammo. I like the idea of having two chokes with O/U's but also want a shadow-grass cammo finish. I've looked at the browning BPS's, they're nice, plus I'm left handed, that works too. But a big factor is.....thinking about getting a 10ga. Are they that much more effective? I had no problems smakin down birds with my 12 this year, but if a 10 will do it better or give me some more reach or a larger pattern, then what the heck. Any of you guys shoot a 10ga? Any real difference? I immagine a 10ga is to a 12ga as a 12 is to a 20....any thoughts?
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Postby donell67 » Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:50 am

i think a 10 gives you just that much more power even over a 3.5 12.
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Postby HatterWayne » Thu Feb 03, 2005 10:00 am

Not necessarily more power, just more shot. I'm a firm believer that it's 85% shooter, 15% gun, IMHO. I don't "pass shoot". We hunt over dekes at a max distance of 40 yards. I can consistantly kill ducks and geese within these ranges using my 20ga, I just have to be more "on" than using my 12ga.

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Postby macdaddy » Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:18 pm

Absolutely, shocktroop - by all means get the BPS 10ga. More shot, better patterning, plus a bit more energy than the 12ga. All in all, it's a better package. Don't believe the hipe about the 12ga. 3.5. Nothing but a marketing gimmick. Get that 10ga. BPS! :thumbsup:
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Postby Thundersnow » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:40 pm

Nothing wrong with the 10, but, I'd go with a 12 that would shoot 3 1/2". You really don't need anything but a 3" under 40 yards. I myself like the 3 1/2" in case the ducks are out a little farther or I'm not shooting very good that day and I'll open up the choke to cylinder or improved and still get a dense enough pattern under 40-45 yards. You can also find shells a lot cheaper for the 12. If you want to practice with your hunting gun you can take a 12 with light loads to a skeet or sporting clays range. You might have a problem doing that with a 10. Your more than likely going to take it on a dove hunt sometimes. Although a 10 is great for some things, I do not feel you get that much over a 12 - 3 1/2. You can get close to 10 gauge performance, get it cheaper (usually), and you have the option to do lots of other things with the 12.

By the way, for the people that failed math class the difference between 1 5/8 (as in 10 gauge load) and 1 9/16 (as in 12 gauge 3 1/2") is 1/16 of an ounce. That is the difference of 203 #2s against 195 for the 12. They do make a couple of loads for the 10 that have 1 3/4 ounce of shot but they get down to about 1260 fps. They have a grand total of 216 #2s. The loss of velocity kinda cancels the extra pellets out to me once they start below 1300 fps (The "slow" winchester x-perts now start out at 1400fps). Most of the high speed loads (example, winchesters supremes) have the same loads for the 12 as the 10. Same payload - same velocity. The 10 might have a slightly shorter shot stream,but, most people would not notice a bit of difference.

Bottom line....the 12 3 1/2 is the way to go.

Get one of the Benelli SBE II and you'll have most waterfowl hunters dream gun.
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Postby thaner » Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:38 pm

I agree with thundersnow 110% :thumbsup:
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Postby Robberwood » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:06 am

:withstupid: Totally agree also!!! No need for a 10 gauge especially if u want to use the gun for other things. I can shoot just as good with my 870 Super Express Magnum 12 gauge as my dad can with his BPS 10 gauge and the cost of shells is also a good reason for a 12.
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Postby hamernhonkers » Fri Feb 04, 2005 11:10 am

Just a question. Do any of you reload? The 10 is capable of much more than most people think. In truth with reloading, the 3.5 12 doesn't hold a candle in the wind to the 10! I bet most people don't know this but the 10 is actually capable of 2 1/2 oz loads of lead shot. If you want to see a turkey die with no flapping hit one with a 2 1/2 oz load of #5's at 1250 fps. I have also just found a recipe for a 1 7/8 oz steel load. Its not no 1500 fps load but at the right range and with the right choke you could certainly put out a pattern birds couldn't fly through. :salude:

shocktroop. Don't decide on what others say. When everything goes right you could kill as many ducks with a 410 as any other gun. Its just like another thread on this form about mossbergs. There are those who love them and swear by them and those who hate them. Its all a mind set if you feel comfortable shooting a 10, use it. Just take the time to lean what you and the gun are capable of and use it within your limits. If price is a factor and you still want to hunt with the ten, get into reloading. You can cut the cost of shells in half, and load a better selection of shells for type of hunting you do. (i.e. 11/4 to 17/8 oz steel loads or 11/4 to 21/2 oz lead loads 11/4 to 21/8 oz bismuth loads) :thumbsup:
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Postby Thundersnow » Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:09 pm

Don't decide on what others say? The man asked a question to help him make a decision. I tried to give him some LOGICAL reasons to stick with the 12. What is the logic saying you could kill as many ducks with a 410? Even if they are only 20 yard shots it still is not true. Where do you get 10 gauge field loads to practice with?

Everybody has opinions As I said before, "there is nothing wrong with a 10". It does have the capability to have a larger load than a 12. If you want to reload you can cut the cost of some loads AND make possibly better loads. You can also do that with the 12. Most people (my opinion) do not reload to save money. They reload because they enjoy experimenting with loads and it is just fun to hunt with something you "built" yourself.

This thread is different than the one about mossbergs. A gun brand is picked because of the users taste or pocket book. As long as it fires a sufficient load for what you are hunting it is ok. Just because you like a load of steel 6's, you should not use them on geese. It is not a matter of taste-it is a matter of physics.

As I said before , the 12 gauge 3 1/2" is the way to go.
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Postby hamernhonkers » Fri Feb 04, 2005 7:38 pm

You don't need field loads for the ten. If he gets enough practice in with his o/u or another shot gun, and gets a 10 that fits him correctly he will not need much practice with the new one. (Although if he reloads the 11/4 oz load out of the heavier ten feels just like shooting a 11/8 oz load out of a 12) The great shooters around the country can pick up any gun off the shelf and shoot them well after a couple of shots. The reason being they have had enough practice and experience to follow the basic rules of shooting. Keeping the head down, the proper lead, follow through, range of the target, capibility of the guage and load, etc. So if to answer his question there is no reason for him not to get a 10. The ten can offer him denser patterns and longer range if he has the ability, or improves his ability to shoot. And if I recall correctly he is looking for a waterfowl gun not an all around gun.

As for the 410 killing as may birds as any other gun, this is true in the hands of a shooter who knows how to correctly use one. I know plenty of people who use the smaller gauges for the challenge. But they do have the ability and experience to effectively kill birds. They know the range and capability of themselves and the gun. In fact I'll bet you in there hands, on average, they kill a heck of a lot more ducks than you average pass shooter!

I can also tell you (around here) most people reload first, to save cost. Second to build a better load. Of course this is in my neck of the woods, which is not the wealthiest around.

I say, don't listen to others because I believe you can make a better choice for yourself if you research and find the information you need to get what you want. People are to bias to listen to in these matters. Proven facts and your own feeling are better to go off of, not some one else's option.

Of course as ironic as it is this is still is only just my opinion. :toofunny:
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Postby had » Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:48 am

Of course as ironic as it is this is still is only just my opinion.

i was thinking the same thing.

there is no reason for someone not to get a 10 ga. i wouldn't get one but thats just me. i don't see a reason to get one either.
shocktroop wrote:
I had no problems smakin down birds with my 12 this year, but if a 10 will do it better or give me some more reach or a larger pattern, then what the heck.


if you had no problems with your 12, don't fix it if it is not broke. but if you would like to try something new, i know you will be more than happy with the performance from a 10 ga bps. those are nice guns.
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Postby Thundersnow » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:39 pm

I say, don't listen to others because I believe you can make a better choice for yourself if you research and find the information you need to get what you want. People are to bias to listen to in these matters. Proven facts and your own feeling are better to go off of, not some one else's option.


What do you call research? It looks like this could be a piece of the puzzle to help him make a decision!

Just because you can kill a fly with a hammer - even an expert is not perfect and a 410 will not kill as many ducks as a larger gauge. That is like saying a 22 is a great deer rifle. It will kill a deer but it is not a wise choice.

Different guns have different points of aim. My o/u sporting clays gun shoots a little high- so does my SBE. My m90 shoots a little low my nova and bps shoot dead on. I can tell a difference for a few days when I change up guns. I can still hit with them but not as regularly as if I stick with one. When you practice with a gun...you get better with that gun if you do not believe that logic I might as well quit here.

There is an old saying, "Beware of the man with one gun who knows how to use it". If you practice with the same gun you hunt with you will be use to the balence, feel, and what you can do with the gun. You will be more effective.

The man asked if there was much difference between the 12 and 10. If you think 8 #2 pellets is alot I'm not going to try to change your mind. If you would rather have a 10 1/2 pound gun instead of a 8 lb....by all means go with the 10. If you are deciding between the ballistics (and to save confusion we'll say factory load) there is not much difference. If you want to shoot very heavy loads at teal and wood ducks (early season) or on short range shots go with the 10 -your going to have trouble finding a light load. If you think most of the time a 3" load is ok and when you need the extra range you would like to throw in a 3 1/2" and be able to use a lighter, quicker gun, and an easier to find shell... the FACTS say go with the 12.
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Postby shocktroop » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:54 pm

Thanks for all the replies guys. Idon't have any experience with the 10's, so thats why I asked if there was an appreciable difference. I appreciate all the info.
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Postby had » Sun Feb 06, 2005 4:26 am

no problem, good luck. :thumbsup:
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Postby AlaskaRedneK » Mon Feb 07, 2005 12:59 am

I think you shoud get what YOU really want. I like the 10G. and the 12G. But if you really want a o/u, browning makes a really cool one w/ the camo barrel/synthetic stock. I got to hold one at my local gun shop, they are REALLY nice, hence the price tag reflects that :smile: .


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