Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Share your questions on all makes and models of shotguns. Please post chokes questions in the SRBC forum

Moderators: Quack Wacker NC, MM

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:57 am

It's not illegal to kill a person, and it's not illegal to float a shell in your shotgun.

It's also not illegal to be capable of killing a person, nor is it illegal to hunt waterfowl with a shotgun that is capable of floating a shell.

It is a crime to commit Murder or Manslaughter.
It is a crime to hunt with four shells in your gun during the regular waterfowl season.

In order to be convicted of a crime, they have to prove that you have committed the crime.

Hunting with a plugged shotgun, that can only fit two shells in the magazine, IS hunting with a shotgun that has been plugged with a one-piece filler that cannot be removed without disassembling the gun.

Whether it can float a fourth or not.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm


Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:04 am

If you are so paranoid as to believe that Mr. Green Jeans is going to bust you for an unplugged gun just because he's able to float a fourth shell in your gun, go right ahead and install a longer plug that only allows you to put one shell in the magazine.

I'm not going to, because I think that's absolutely ridiculous.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby Yuchi1 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:05 am

copterdoc wrote:It's not illegal to kill a person, and it's not illegal to float a shell in your shotgun.

From what I understand about the law, taking a human life is technically a crime, on it's face. There are circumstances where such lethal force can be justifed (see your state's self-defense laws) however, each incident is reviewed by LEO/DA to determine if a legitimate self-defense situation existed or a homicide occurred. Feel free to consult with George Zimmerman if you need further clarification.

It is also technically illegal to float the fourth shotshell as the federal law regarding the number of shells a shotgun can hold is explicit. What part of the number three (3) do you not understand. Again, feel free to march down to your local USFWS office and ask their LEO this question.

Would strongly recommend such a course of action before trying this out (in the field) as the prognostications of internet $hithouse lawyers are epidemic and likely worth less than what got flushed this AM.


It's also not illegal to be capable of killing a person, nor is it illegal to hunt waterfowl with a shotgun that is capable of floating a shell.

It is a crime to commit Murder or Manslaughter.
It is a crime to hunt with four shells in your gun during the regular waterfowl season.

In order to be convicted of a crime, they have to prove that you have committed the crime.

Hunting with a plugged shotgun, that can only fit two shells in the magazine, IS hunting with a shotgun that has been plugged with a one-piece filler that cannot be removed without disassembling the gun.

Whether it can float a fourth or not.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:37 am

...It is also technically illegal to float the fourth shotshell as the federal law regarding the number of shells a shotgun can hold is explicit. What part of the number three (3) do you not understand. Again, feel free to march down to your local USFWS office and ask their LEO this question....
No, it is not "technically" illegal to float a fourth shell.

I can legally float a fourth shell 365 days a year.
I just can't do it while hunting waterfowl, during the regular waterfowl season.

And I certainly understand the number 3.
I also understand the numbers 4, 5, and 12. Which are all the numbers which my auto-loading and pump shotguns CAN hold.

They are ALL 100% legal to hunt with during the regular waterfowl season, when plugged with a one-piece filler, that can only be removed by disassembling the gun.

Just because a shotgun CAN float a fourth shell, doesn't make it an illegal device for hunting during the regular waterfowl season.

The fact is that ANY auto-loading shotgun CAN float a fourth shell. You just need to figure out how to get it on the carrier, with one in the chamber, and two in the mag tube.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby mudpack » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:02 am

Nobody is going to convince anyone on the other side that they are wrong, not on this subject.
So, do whatever you want.

I know this: my Xtrema2 will float a fourth. I do not ever float a fourth. I know that I could get a ticket for having a gun that "can" load more than three shells, even though it has a plug. I also think I could successfully fight it in court.
I also don't think it will ever come to that.
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 6198
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby TNDuckBoy » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:17 pm

The only way I would get a ticket is if I was caught with 4 shells in my gun. I am not going to do that for waterfowl and never will but as long as I dont have a 4th shell in the chamber I should be legal. I also dont even have the gun so to some of you guys trying to tell me I am going to be given a ticket, :fingerpt:
2013-2014 Waterfowl Season

Canadian Geese-12
Mallards-4(3 drakes)
Canvasbacks-2(1drake)
Bluebills-5(4 drakes)
Redheads-7(6 drakes)
Pintails-1
Red Breasted Mergansers-6(1 drake)
Coots-22
TNDuckBoy
hunter
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 1:32 pm
Location: Knoxville Tennessee

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby Yuchi1 » Fri Feb 21, 2014 6:08 pm

copterdoc wrote:
...It is also technically illegal to float the fourth shotshell as the federal law regarding the number of shells a shotgun can hold is explicit. What part of the number three (3) do you not understand. Again, feel free to march down to your local USFWS office and ask their LEO this question....
No, it is not "technically" illegal to float a fourth shell. Within the context of the OP and the federal regulations (regarding waterfowl hunting) is darn well is illegal, so your trying to wordsmith this into something much broader than the OP and/or the regs, as cited, is pure blarney and obfuscation.

I can legally float a fourth shell 365 days a year.
I just can't do it while hunting waterfowl, during the regular waterfowl season.

And I certainly understand the number 3.
I also understand the numbers 4, 5, and 12. Which are all the numbers which my auto-loading and pump shotguns CAN hold.

They are ALL 100% legal to hunt with during the regular waterfowl season, when plugged with a one-piece filler, that can only be removed by disassembling the gun.

Just because a shotgun CAN float a fourth shell, doesn't make it an illegal device for hunting during the regular waterfowl season.

Please feel free to stop by the local USFWS office and ask them to 'splain it, to your satisfaction. :wink:

The fact is that ANY auto-loading shotgun CAN float a fourth shell. You just need to figure out how to get it on the carrier, with one in the chamber, and two in the mag tube.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby wraithen » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:46 pm

Much as I don't want to get into this thread, most game wardens aren't going to bust you on a gun capable of loading a fourth by floating it. However, they do not have to catch you with four in the gun. If they are capable of loading four into your gun during inspection you are getting the federal violation. Most will use your shells and won't attempt to do anything other than load more than two in the chamber. I did have one try and load more than 2 of his own 2 3/4" dummies. As has been said before, it's not about how many you have in the gun but how many you are capable of having in the gun. For everyone thinking they can not be caught unless there are four rounds in the gun then why even plug it?

Does this site have an actual LEO or warden that can weigh in semi-anonymously? Some of these posts are downright ignorant and petty.
Education is important, but common sense is importanter ~ tknight006
wraithen
hunter
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:18 am

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby surfrat » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:08 pm

Saying that you will get busted for having a gun that will float a fourth shell is silly. The law is very easy to understand. If you have a plug in the mag that prevents a third shell from being loaded into the mag and have a total of three in your gun then you are fine. Someone on here even said that you would be toast if a police officer saw that you had modified your gun to float a fourth shell.That may be the single dumbest thing i have heard on this site. I have had game wardens check my guns and all they ever do is try to put three in the mag. Do you really think a warden is going to try to shove a round under your bolt and lock up the action on some guys gun in the field. Or pull the bolt out and look at it. Even if You told him it would float a round unless you handed it to him with four in it the way the law is written you are not in violation of anything.I would like to see one example of anyone ever in the history of mankind ever getting a ticket or getting in any trouble of any kind for having a gun that had three but will float a fourth round.......Prove your silly claims and show me one person .....ever......Not possible because it has never happened. This is not something new....I have known about it for about 20 years.....I have hunted with guns that would float for 20 years. I think some of you guys are a little behind the curve on this one.
surfrat
hunter
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:36 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby wraithen » Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:25 pm

Probably. I would be hard pressed to show you a guy that has been ticketed for a single overharvest as well tho. Its almost impossible to get in trouble for this but I have been accused and investigated bc the warden heard 7 shots. I was proving that I could load a fourth after shooting three relatively quickly bc my buddy didnt believe me. You can bet that warden tried his hardest to get 3 in the mag of my pump gun. He even tried to see if there was a way to float it in the chamber of my pump.

The bigger issue comes down to legality and ethics. Why have a need to float a single shell? Just get bigger mags.
Education is important, but common sense is importanter ~ tknight006
wraithen
hunter
 
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:18 am

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby Yuchi1 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:37 am

surfrat wrote:Saying that you will get busted for having a gun that will float a fourth shell is silly. The law is very easy to understand. (apparently, you are still struggling with it) If you have a plug in the mag that prevents a third shell from being loaded into the mag and have a total of three in your gun then you are fine. Someone on here even said that you would be toast if a police officer saw that you had modified your gun to float a fourth shell.That may be the single dumbest thing i have heard on this site. (next to this post) I have had game wardens check my guns and all they ever do is try to put three in the mag. Do you really think a warden is going to try to shove a round under your bolt and lock up the action on some guys gun in the field. Or pull the bolt out and look at it. Even if You told him it would float a round unless you handed it to him with four in it the way the law is written you are not in violation of anything.I would like to see one example of anyone ever in the history of mankind ever getting a ticket or getting in any trouble of any kind for having a gun that had three but will float a fourth round.......Prove your silly claims and show me one person .....ever......Not possible because it has never happened. This is not something new....I have known about it for about 20 years.....I have hunted with guns that would float for 20 years. I think some of you guys are a little behind the curve on this one. (have you ever asked a USFWS LEO this question? Try it.)
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:26 am

Yuchi, I have a serious question for you.

If I can (without modification) get your favorite semi-auto to go bang four consecutive times while plugged and without reloading, would you then refuse to hunt with that gun during the regular waterfowl season?

Unless your answer is yes, you don't have a leg to stand on.

And if your answer is yes, your unreasonable paranoia, and misinterpretation of the letter and spirit of the Law, means that you can't let yourself hunt with your favorite shotgun.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby mudpack » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:41 am

Some of you are trying to convince some of us that we should be able to ignore the wording of the law and hunt waterfowl, with impunity, with a gun that is capable of carrying four shells (even if the magazine will only hold two).
Well, we do....hunt with that very same gun, that is. The difference between your position and ours is that we realize that, if a very knowledgeable and thorough game warden were to check our autoloaders (and yours), he could write a ticket if he wanted too.
You/we could pitch a hissy-fit, but that won't stop him if he decides to go by the letter...and the intent, I might add.... of the law.

The law is clear. It is about the "capability" of the gun, not the "intent" or "acts" of the user. While it won't stop you, or us, from using our favorite autoloaders, it is something to keep in mind. In the unlikely event you/we get a ticket, none of us will have any excuses. :thumbsup:
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 6198
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:50 am

mudpack wrote:...he could write a ticket if he wanted too.....
They can always write a ticket if they want to.
And they aren't always right when they do.

If they can ticket me for hunting with a shotgun that is plugged to be legal, but can still float a fourth shell, they can ticket anybody for hunting with any semi-auto that can fit two shells in the magazine.

In order for the gun to function, it HAS TO be able to function with a shell riding on the carrier.
And since that is true, ANY semi-auto shotgun is capable of floating a fourth.

It's just trickier to do with some.
And if that's where the line must be drawn, how tricky, is tricky enough to be legal?
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:41 am

mudpack wrote:....The law is clear. It is about the "capability" of the gun, not the "intent" or "acts" of the user.......
Your actions, and the evidence of your intentions, have EVERYTHING to do with whether you get a ticket or not.

It's very difficult to deny intent, when there is JB Weld on your bolt.
And it's impossible to deny the act of loading four shells in your gun.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby clampdaddy » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:14 am

This subject is always one of my favorite reads. :lol3:
User avatar
clampdaddy
hunter
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 9:23 pm
Location: Where spoonies go to die

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby Yuchi1 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:09 pm

copterdoc wrote:Yuchi, I have a serious question for you.

If I can (without modification) get your favorite semi-auto to go bang four consecutive times while plugged and without reloading, would you then refuse to hunt with that gun during the regular waterfowl season?

No, as my SBE II & M II will not "float" a shotshell on the carrier w/o modification.

And, your next innane question is......?


Unless your answer is yes, you don't have a leg to stand on.

And if your answer is yes, your unreasonable paranoia, and misinterpretation of the letter and spirit of the Law, means that you can't let yourself hunt with your favorite shotgun.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:35 am

Yuchi1 wrote:No, as my SBE II & M II will not "float" a shotshell on the carrier w/o modification.......
Yes they will, or they wouldn't be able to cycle.
The modification just makes it easier to float a shell.

It doesn't suddenly make it possible to float a shell.
It was already possible, as it's something that the action demands the gun be able to do.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby mudpack » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:41 pm

copterdoc wrote:In order for the gun to function, it HAS TO be able to function with a shell riding on the carrier.
And since that is true, ANY semi-auto shotgun is capable of floating a fourth.

I'm not sure where you get this, since none of my autoloaders (Gold, SX3, 11-87) will release a shell from the magazine until the bolt is moving to the rear....which means there is no shell "riding" on the carrier when it cycles.

Also, with my Browning Golds and SX3 (same guns, by the way), if there is a shell riding on the carrier, it will unlatch the charging handle and said handle will come out....rendering the gun non-functional.
They will not be "able to function with a shell riding on the carrier." I know: had a malfunction with one of the Golds once; a shell slipped out of the magazine, onto the carrier under the bolt, and the handle came out. Fortunately, it fell in my layout boat and not in the water....
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 6198
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:02 am

mudpack wrote:
copterdoc wrote:In order for the gun to function, it HAS TO be able to function with a shell riding on the carrier.
And since that is true, ANY semi-auto shotgun is capable of floating a fourth.

I'm not sure where you get this, since none of my autoloaders (Gold, SX3, 11-87) will release a shell from the magazine until the bolt is moving to the rear....which means there is no shell "riding" on the carrier when it cycles.

Also, with my Browning Golds and SX3 (same guns, by the way), if there is a shell riding on the carrier, it will unlatch the charging handle and said handle will come out....rendering the gun non-functional.
They will not be "able to function with a shell riding on the carrier." I know: had a malfunction with one of the Golds once; a shell slipped out of the magazine, onto the carrier under the bolt, and the handle came out. Fortunately, it fell in my layout boat and not in the water....


THIS^^^

IMO, CD is FOS.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:33 am

mudpack wrote:I'm not sure where you get this, since none of my autoloaders (Gold, SX3, 11-87) will release a shell from the magazine until the bolt is moving to the rear.....
The shell is on the carrier by the time the bolt is moving forward.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby copterdoc » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:36 am

I'm sorry to crush you guys' ideology on hunting ethics.
But, it's way off base with reality, so it kinda needed to be crushed.
User avatar
copterdoc
hunter
 
Posts: 6031
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:55 pm

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:24 am

copterdoc wrote:I'm sorry to crush you guys' ideology on hunting ethics.
But, it's way off base with reality, so it kinda needed to be crushed.


My SBEII & MII will not float the fourth...been there, tried that.

BTW, it has nothing to do with ethics rather, mechanics and the letter of law.

Oh yes, and an inflated ego or two... :no:
Sent from my Sumerian tablets

Does the number of bands claimed simply mean you have an Ebay account?

FSH Pro Staffer

High Potentate, NSSB (no spinning shotcup brotherhood)
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1665
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby jstewart_1981 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:35 am

I have (2) Xtrema 2s, both will float shells.
User avatar
jstewart_1981
hunter
 
Posts: 352
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:30 pm
Location: Calhoun,Georgia

Re: Beretta Extrema 2 Ghost Load

Postby mudpack » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:42 am

copterdoc wrote:I'm sorry to crush you guys' ideology on hunting ethics.
But, it's way off base with reality, so it kinda needed to be crushed.

Actually, you've convinced me that my hunting ethics are the correct ones. Thank you. :thumbsup:
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 6198
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

PreviousNext

Return to Shotgun Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests