Escort shotguns?

Share your questions on all makes and models of shotguns. Please post chokes questions in the SRBC forum

Moderator: Quack Wacker NC

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:39 am

Back before I bought my Escorts, I was searching for any and all info I could get my hands on concerning the Escort. The number of Escort owners on DHC being limited because of limited availability. I needed a broader search. During my online search, I came across a website that is called "Review Centre". If you go there, key in Escort Magnum. They rated numerous popular 12ga shotguns. Among their rated top five, the Escort rated #1 and Win SX3 was #2. There was 66 reviews on the Escort. The Escort had a 91% satisfaction rating and the Win SX3 a 80%.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 3220
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC


Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby Yuchi1 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:52 am

Back in the mid-1960's, the cheap, crappy, sheetmetal shotgun was the Remington 1100 as Browning A-5 owners attacked this "poor man's" shotgun like a pack of rabid dogs. Today, after ~6 million of them have been produced, they are held in a totally different regard by many shooters.

Given that most all of today's production S/A shotguns appear to have a degree of the throw-away DNA in them, Chris may have discovered a real value in his Escort shotguns, considering you can get 3-5 of them for the price of one "top-of-the-line S/A shotgun, and if you get five seasons out of each, thats 15-25 years of service for the same amount of $$'s expended on one of the "thoroughbreds".

IMO, could be a part of the reason(s) guys are either going "retro" with 1100's, A-5's, etc. or taking the path Chris has chosen.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1822
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:18 am

Yuchi
My problem has been, guns that I have thought I liked well enough to hunt with, have turned out to be safe queens. I like the guns but just dont shoot them. The reason is they just dont have that special feel, balance or pointabilty. Not that they are not reliable. I just dont grab them on the morning of a hunt as I pass them by. My SBE and the Escorts have not been this way. Example, I have a like new matte finish 1100 that is all decked out with a Hastings WLB, Rem supercell pad, sling swivels, a duck killer for sure and all ready to hunt. It just sets in the safe and doesnt do it for me. It does have a great feel to it but does not have the balance due to the extra weight of the Hastings barrel and its steel action. I enjoy having a choice and you might say I am spoiled from having a choice. My SBE and Escort have so far proven to me to not be guns that I leave at home.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 3220
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby mudpack » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:11 pm

Shoot what ya' like. :thumbsup:
Often wrong, never in doubt...
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 7400
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby badbowtie » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:57 pm

Dad bought a 20 just last year and he ordered a Huglu, it does not fit, threads arent even on the same place. His factory escort tube says V3, and I aligned it with a Rem choke and it lines up right. So to update this thread it looks like the 20ga V3 is rem choke for sure.
User avatar
badbowtie
State Moderator
 
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Mt. Vernon, IN

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby 10gaOkie » Fri Aug 14, 2015 9:20 pm

Both my Escort Supremes in 20 and 12 came with the V3 tubes which are Rem threads.

Chris
10gaOkie
hunter
 
Posts: 3220
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 8:38 pm
Location: OKC

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby badbowtie » Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:29 am

Thanks Chris. This helps a lot.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
User avatar
badbowtie
State Moderator
 
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:31 am
Location: Mt. Vernon, IN

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby mudpack » Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:17 am

Yuchi1 wrote:... you can get 3-5 of them for the price of one "top-of-the-line S/A shotgun, and if you get five seasons out of each, thats 15-25 years of service for the same amount of $$'s expended on one of the "thoroughbreds".


Problem is, you can expect about 100 years worth of service from a "thoroughbred" shotgun....which makes it not only the better gun, but the better value as well. :thumbsup:

Of course, if you only shoot the Escort once a year, it might last 100 years, as well.......
Can the average Turkish/Russian autoloader go 24,000 firings without a malfunction? A lowly Remington 1100 did. That's a lot of years of use for most of our duck guns.
Often wrong, never in doubt...
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 7400
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby NedSwygard » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:48 am

mudpack wrote:
Yuchi1 wrote:... you can get 3-5 of them for the price of one "top-of-the-line S/A shotgun, and if you get five seasons out of each, thats 15-25 years of service for the same amount of $$'s expended on one of the "thoroughbreds".


Problem is, you can expect about 100 years worth of service from a "thoroughbred" shotgun....which makes it not only the better gun, but the better value as well. :thumbsup:

Of course, if you only shoot the Escort once a year, it might last 100 years, as well.......
Can the average Turkish/Russian autoloader go 24,000 firings without a malfunction? A lowly Remington 1100 did. That's a lot of years of use for most of our duck guns.


Mudpack does not own an Escort nor has he ever shot one. Four parts that wear out on an 1100 have been eliminated from the Escort. I have two 1100's and two Escort Autos plus a pump Escort. No probslems with them except the chokes give bad patterns. The Rem chokes fit my black plastic auto but .005 has to be removed from the OD of the chokes from the threads to the end of the choke on the walnut Escorts which I do. I have had no problems with the function of my Escorts and 10gageOkie has shot over 3200 loads. They should last a lifetime. Only time will tell. Ned
NedSwygard
hunter
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby cluckmeister » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:27 am

Oh no, not again
If you're there for the limit, you're there for the wrong reason
cluckmeister
State Moderator
 
Posts: 4438
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby cootlover » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:31 am

I don't own a escort but I do own a tri star and it did well the first few of boxes of shells then it turned into a turd .it don't matter to me how many of the cheap guns you can buy when I go hunting I want a well balanced reliable gun that's why I take my M2 out .Every cheap gun I have picked up they feel the same like something is just not right. Ps I would love to see a video of ned shooting all these escorts all of my old shooting buds have gave it up I hope I can still pull the trigger at your age :thumbsup:
cootlover
hunter
 
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:39 pm

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby NedSwygard » Sun Aug 16, 2015 1:33 pm

cootlover wrote:I don't own a escort but I do own a tri star and it did well the first few of boxes of shells then it turned into a turd .it don't matter to me how many of the cheap guns you can buy when I go hunting I want a well balanced reliable gun that's why I take my M2 out .Every cheap gun I have picked up they feel the same like something is just not right. Ps I would love to see a video of ned shooting all these escorts all of my old shooting buds have gave it up I hope I can still pull the trigger at your age :thumbsup:


I'll be 87 in Dec. I'll be hunting with my black plastic Escort with a light mod Carlson choke for Rems. It gives great patterns and hasn't missed a beat.
Will send 10gageOkie a Briley ImpMod modified for his walnut 12 gage Escort tomorrow. Ned
NedSwygard
hunter
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby cootlover » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:24 pm

No crap 87 and still doing what you love that's great my dad passed away last month at 80 he started to slow down about 8 months ago so he had a run :thumbsup:
cootlover
hunter
 
Posts: 1377
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:39 pm

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby NedSwygard » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:54 pm

The Tristar is a nice gun. I heard it has great patterns. Ned
NedSwygard
hunter
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby mudpack » Sun Aug 16, 2015 6:49 pm

I owned a TriStar for about a month. It was a terrible gun.
I shot a box of shells through it and knew I'd never shoot it again, so sold it.

Ned has not put 200 rounds through his Escort. He has no idea how long it will last.
NedSwygard wrote:I have had no problems with the function of my Escorts ... They should last a lifetime. Only time will tell. Ned
An Escort might (key word there) last the rest of your life, ned, but a good gun will last your life, your son's life, and your grandson's life at the very least. Called damning by faint praise.
Escorts are crapguns, built to a price point, and no amount of someone having "no problems" (except terrible patterns??) while putting a relatively small number of shells through one will change that. I have a new Beretta AL390 that I've never had a problem with. Do you suppose I should mention that it's never been fired?

No Escort has been fired enough times to establish a good track record. When the time comes that a significant number of those guns have fired 10K or 20K rounds without major issues...if that's possible....then the guys who buy them might have an audience.
There is one reason and one reason only that anyone would buy an Escort: because it doesn't cost much. Even ned can't deny that.
Often wrong, never in doubt...
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 7400
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby NedSwygard » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:36 pm

mudpack wrote:I owned a TriStar for about a month. It was a terrible gun.
I shot a box of shells through it and knew I'd never shoot it again, so sold it.

Ned has not put 200 rounds through his Escort. He has no idea how long it will last.
NedSwygard wrote:I have had no problems with the function of my Escorts ... They should last a lifetime. Only time will tell. Ned
An Escort might (key word there) last the rest of your life, ned, but a good gun will last your life, your son's life, and your grandson's life at the very least. Called damning by faint praise.
Escorts are crapguns, built to a price point, and no amount of someone having "no problems" (except terrible patterns??) while putting a relatively small number of shells through one will change that. I have a new Beretta AL390 that I've never had a problem with. Do you suppose I should mention that it's never been fired?

No Escort has been fired enough times to establish a good track record. When the time comes that a significant number of those guns have fired 10K or 20K rounds without major issues...if that's possible....then the guys who buy them might have an audience.
There is one reason and one reason only that anyone would buy an Escort: because it doesn't cost much. Even ned can't deny that.


As I have said before, mudpack has never owned or shot one. Doesn't know that Escort eliminated the four parts that wear out on a 1100 and have to be replaced generally after malfunction which I have done as I own two 1100's.
He also ignores the chrome lined barrel, the magazine cut off, and the better fit of the bolt and receiver. The 1100's now cost more than the Escorts also even used ones. Ned
NedSwygard
hunter
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby flyndutchman » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:48 pm

I don't own an escort and never will. I watched my old hunting partner's malfunction or break every time he took it out. He has had it for three seasons and it has been back for repairs five times. Ned must have bought stock in Legacy Sports the way he is promoting.
flyndutchman
hunter
 
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:44 pm
Location: Wenatchee

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby mudpack » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:46 am

NedSwygard wrote:Mudpack does not own an Escort nor has he ever shot one.

ned is correct; I do not own an Escort, nor will I ever own one. (I learned long ago to not waste good money.)

I have held them, shouldered them, and closely examined them... and can tell you that they have little appeal for someone who knows and appreciates shotguns.

NedSwygard wrote:As I have said before, mudpack has never owned or shot one. Doesn't know that Escort eliminated the four parts that wear out on a 1100 and have to be replaced generally after malfunction which I have done as I own two 1100's.
He also ignores the chrome lined barrel, the magazine cut off, and the better fit of the bolt and receiver. The 1100's now cost more than the Escorts also even used ones. Ned

ned, I prefer to ignore the whole gun. It doesn't hold any appeal for me. Useless "features" are not why I buy a gun; quality is why I buy a gun.
I have a combo set of a well-known Italian target gun that costs about $5000. It has no bells and whistles. What makes it a good value and what makes it desirable is it's build quality and reputation for durability.

What makes the Escort appealing is it's low cost....period. Certainly not it's build quality or durability. You know that.

By the way, if the folks who designed the Escort had eliminated one more part...such as the firing pin....they could have sold it for even less and STILL had the same appeal to most of us.

If the Escort is such a great gun, why don't they sell them for $900 instead of $299???? We all know the answer to that.
Often wrong, never in doubt...
mudpack
hunter
 
Posts: 7400
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:40 am
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Aug 17, 2015 10:21 am

What makes the Escort appealing is it's low cost....period. Certainly not it's build quality or durability. You know that!

I agree with Mud, there is no way an Escort has the quality of material in it as a higher dollar shotgun. The steel in the barrel is a foreign steel not American, and thus being foreign the steel has far more impurities in it, it isn't heat treated to the same standard as American steel etc. American steel costs almost twice as much as foreign steel, so wouldn't it make sense that the barrel alone would run twice the price on a quality gun as the one on an Escort. Ned talks about the chrome lined barrel on a Escort, big deal if they heated treated good steel they wouldnt have to put a hard chrome finish on the inside to protect the barrel from steel shot. If the steel is cheaper ,what does that say about the rest of the material in the gun. In regard to the chrome lining, some high dollar guns do have chrome lined barrels, but its to prevent corrosion, erosion of the steel and ease of cleaning not because they use cheap foreign steel or sub standard heat treats of that steel.

wouldn't it be interesting if the company producing these cheap price of point Escort shotguns would actually do static fatigue and cyclic tests just to see how well their product would hold up under say just 10,000 cycles. I bet that never happens, Why? Because these guns are made for people that either don't want to spend big bucks for a quality gun or the people buying them are like a lot of us that started hunting and are trying to raise a family etc and simply cant spend a thousand bucks or more for a shotgun.
If you're there for the limit, you're there for the wrong reason
cluckmeister
State Moderator
 
Posts: 4438
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby Frank Lopez » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:07 am

mudpack wrote:I have held them, shouldered them, and closely examined them... and can tell you that they have little appeal for someone who knows and appreciates shotguns.


AMEN! It amazes me that the majority of people that shoot shotguns have little or no idea about balance and dynamics! Like I've said, I have shouldered these guns and there is absolutely no comparison to a well made gun. A Remington 870 Wingmaster is far and away a much better gun, when you come right down to it. Fit and dynamics are the two most important qualities of a shotgun with respect to shooting flying. Virtually any shotgun can be made to fit properly. But dynamics, for the most part, is inherent in the design and build.


mudpack wrote:What makes the Escort appealing is it's low cost....period. Certainly not it's build quality or durability.


Back in the 50s and 60s, Spanish doubles were all the rage on the shotgun market. Slick importers and resellers figured out that most shotgunners are casual shooters and make their purchase with their wallets, not gun quality. So, they began ordering guns to a price point, but ordering that the cosmetics have the look of guns worth several times that price point. The Basques happily complied. But the quality of the gun suffered. But, for a run of two or three decades, the Spanish gun trade was king of the hill. Then the word got out. The guns that were ok for a couple of dozen shots a year eventually broke down. US gunsmiths opened them up for repairs and were pretty much appalled at what they saw. The Spanish market collapsed almost completely. There were a few companies that pretty much refused to participate in this price point trade, insisting that quality was more important. These are pretty much the only ones that survived. Today, Spanish SxS and O/U shotguns are among the finest in the world and are among the best dollar for dollar values.

The English insist that while very good, the Spanish guns are not Best quality. They're basically 90% guns. Maybe so. But the British gun of the same quality and built to the same specifications will take twice as long (manhours) to build than the Spanish gun. The Basques, it seems, are more interested in function than in the finish on the gun. A well made Basque gun will be every bit as functional and reliable as their English counter part. The difference is in the finish. Both these examples are of infinitely higher quality than most Italian and Japanese doubles. The point is that quality costs money. Be it superior materials, more precise machining and fitting, quality control, etc. It all adds to the manhours necessary to produce the gun and thus the cost.

This, of course does not mean that the Turks are not capable of producing a very good gun. Quite the contrary, they can. But, it's going to cost a good bit more than $200.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
User avatar
Frank Lopez
hunter
 
Posts: 3238
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:34 pm
Location: Long Island New York

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:26 am

This, of course does not mean that the Turks are not capable of producing a very good gun. Quite the contrary, they can. But, it's going to cost a good bit more than $200.


$200 wont even buy a NIB Remington 1100 barrel
If you're there for the limit, you're there for the wrong reason
cluckmeister
State Moderator
 
Posts: 4438
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby Cajun1 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 11:56 am

cluckmeister wrote:What makes the Escort appealing is it's low cost....period. Certainly not it's build quality or durability. You know that!

...wouldn't it be interesting if the company producing these cheap price of point Escort shotguns would actually do static fatigue and cyclic tests just to see how well their product would hold up under say just 10,000 cycles. I bet that never happens, Why? Because these guns are made for people that either don't want to spend big bucks for a quality gun or the people buying them are like a lot of us that started hunting and are trying to raise a family etc and simply cant spend a thousand bucks or more for a shotgun.


This is exactly the reason I started out with a Mossberg 935 as my first "modern" semi-auto. I say modern because I've been shooting a Browning Auto-5 since I was 16 but couldn't shoot steel out of my old 16 gauge. We had just gotten married a couple of years earlier and I was just getting into duck hunting. A $500 dollar shotgun was pushing the limit of what we could afford but thankfully my loving wife bought it for me anyway. I have said it before and I'll say it again, It has been a great gun and hasn't failed me once. That being said, I'm not under the delusion that it's equal in quality to a Benelli, Browning, or Beretta. Heck, it's not even a Franchi as far as fit, finish, and feel goes. I still have never spent $1,000 or more on a shotgun but I do now have a Franchi, & a recently acquired M1in the stable. They swing so much better and are far more balanced than my Mossbergs. Not knocking Mossberg at all, they are great guns and made in the USA but they are still made to a price point as well. I just can't help but think these cheap turkish auto's have to be designed, machined, assembled, & shipped here and they still cost just $200...What is lacking? Only time will tell but I believe it will show up in time and shells fired. Sure, they may work great for a couple of seasons but I don't think they'll be in it for the long haul.

Several years ago, I sold weedeaters and other lawn equipment. I actually had a Poulan rep tell me that they only designed the cheap $99 weedeaters sold at Home Depot and other big box stores to last one summer. They had plastic cylinders in the engine for crying out loud. You couldn't service them or buy parts, they were designed to be thrown away when they broke so the consumer would buy another. It seems some of these cheap guns are the same way.

When younger guys who are getting into duck hunting or just hunting in general ask me for advice on buying a shotgun and they have limited funds, I almost always point them to a quality pump action vs a decent to low quality semi. You get way more for your money in a $500 pump than a $500 semi. I have 3 Browning BPS's that I bought used for $375 each or less. They are smooth as silk and the fit is way better than anything I've seen short of a Wingmaster. If they absolutely have to have a semi-auto, I suggest a used B gun or a new 930/935.
Cajun1
hunter
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:12 am

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby NedSwygard » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:28 pm

I own a 935 and paid $360 for it wholesale. If you could tear a Escort down you would see how well they are made. They are made in the turkey factory that makes a lot of Italian guns with inflated prices from cheap Turkey labor. The Escort autos have a colored front sight, raised rib, chrome lined barrel, shims including for cast and a nice expensive type recoil pad. To get these features you have to pay $1600 and up. Also the bolt is a nice slip fit while the 1100's are a sloppy fit with the receiver. Also Escort has eliminated the 4 parts that wear out on a 1100. I know as I have had to replace these parts on my two 1100's. I'm postive that the Escorts will last ones lifetime. Ned
NedSwygard
hunter
 
Posts: 374
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:27 pm

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby cluckmeister » Mon Aug 17, 2015 12:34 pm

Ned, since youre 87 I would hope a Escort would last you a life time LOL. However I doubt even 40% of those price of point shotguns will survive 20 years of good hard hunting.
If you're there for the limit, you're there for the wrong reason
cluckmeister
State Moderator
 
Posts: 4438
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:41 pm
Location: Central Kansas

Re: Escort shotguns?

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:02 pm

IMO, "last a lifetime" is a nebulous quantification in that "last" can mean a lot of things with each having a bit of divergence.

Just about all of my Browning A-5 series and Remington 870/1100/11-87 series shotguns have had something bend/break over the years. Although many of these models are considered by some as obsolete, they are still in service although A-5 parts have become very expensive (firing pins going for ~$115USD) and some are difficult to find.

With the exception of the Beretta 390 series, I would consider the rest of the Beretta/Benelli S/A offerings as not having a long enough proven track record to be eligible for "legacy gun" status.

The current crop of production shotguns are all (IMO) in one way or another "throw-away" items as many components therein are not designed to be long-lived, functionally. In the marketing desire to have something "new" and/or "improved" new models are constantly coming out and parts support for yesterday's offerings becoming more of an afterthought.

As stated in previous posts, our bunch purchased eight (8) of the Verona 412-XS S/A's (predecessor to the Escort) ~13-15 seasons ago and all are still 100% except for the one a guy put ~200+ 3" magnum lead turkey loads through with the magazine collar bushing set for light loads in lieu of magnum loads. The polymer bolt buffer in the back of the receiver split as a result and a replacement part has yet to be located. The gun is still functional although it was not recommended any more magnum lead loads be put through her until a replacement buffer can be located.

Point being, is for the ~$240USD we paid for these guns was a fraction of what the Browning, Benelli, Beretta & Remington S/A's cost, at that point in time. Although I really enjoy my "B" guns, somedays it does beg the question as to just how much the "snob-appeal" factor is really worth.
Sent from my Sumerian tablets
Yuchi1
hunter
 
Posts: 1822
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: Creek Nation of Oklahoma

PreviousNext

Return to Shotgun Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron