Lets talk shotgun shells

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Lets talk shotgun shells

Postby Ducks » Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:19 pm

Hey, why do some shells have high brass and some don`t ?
Whats the dirrfence in 2 3/2 and 3"... Why would you want 3 `1./2.... lett`er roll I want to hear all about this topic thanks ya`ll...
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Postby donell67 » Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:18 pm

well i use 3.5 fast steel kent shells. i can kill birds out to 50 yards. i just like the higher fire power. then some guys use 2 3/4 to kill geese, but they are at pretty close range. i like having the advantage of higher fire power. i need all the help i can get. i kill alot of birds from 35 to 50 yards that are just passing by.at those ranges i dont think a 2 3/4 or 3 inch would be near as effective at those ranges.
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Postby Ducksbeus » Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:43 pm

Hey Ducks, low brass shells are generally smaller powder loads with smaller pellet sizes...most often dove or skeet loads. 3.5" shells have more powder, and, more pellets than a 3" or 2.75". Each shell has its pluses and minuses under different situations. Momma always said " Bigger is better", so, I use 3.5" #3's for dux, and, BB for geese, sometimes, I'll shoot TT at them honkers. Ill use 3" if I can get a good deal...married with children, and, them 3.5's can be pricey. 2.75" I use mainly for skeet and dove. Y'all have a nice day!

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Postby tengoose1 » Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:39 pm

I dont think they make 2.75 or 3 in the 10ga for steel shot. :toofunny: :laughing:, and if they did I wouldnt use em anyway.
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Postby Swamp Puppy » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:52 pm

the biggest advantage of having a bigger shell is the ability to deliver a higher payload of shot downrange at speed. a 2 3/4 inch "high velocity" shell in most cases will use a 1oz or 1 1/8oz load to deliver a muzzel velocity in the 1375 to 1500 fps range (depending on the shell) once you start to get into the 1 1/4oz of shot area you start to lose the ability to push that much shot that fast and you start seeing velocities peek out around that 1300fps range.

what the higher payload ability gives you is more shot in your pattern while not sacraficing muzzel velocity. remember, when you're talking steel...speed kills, so the ability to get a lot of shot out fast is a big benefit.

the common misconception about 3.5" shells is that you can shoot farther with them than a 2 3/4 inch shell. ballistically, this is simply not true. a steel pellet of say, #2 , travelling at 1500fps doesn't care what size shotshell it came out of. the laws of physics will cause that pellet to have the same downrange performance regardless. the advantage is that in a 2 3/4 oz load you will likely only have 1oz of shot whereas in a 3.5" load you can have as much as 1 1/2 to 1 9/16oz of the same size shot flying at the same speeds. it is the increase in the number of pellets in your pattern that raises the hit/miss ratios of shot out past 40 yards. most people think that you can't kill a duck that far with a 2 3/4 inch shell. the reason is that because by the time the shot flys that far there are huge holes in the pattern resulting in more misses. it is that increase in pellet count and the ability to push it at high speeds that makes the 3.5 a more effective downrange killer.

hope this helps

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nice

Postby Ducks » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:26 pm

Good Lord brother you said it all in an nut shell :thumbsup: I just need to get my own thinking back on track ,,,, I been letting the locals tell me stuff tell I wasn`t sure anymore and that is what I was thinking all along ,,,, but once again I lost track thanks everyone and it was much help!
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Postby shrpshtr » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:49 pm

well said Swamp.

personally, 3" is plenty big a shell. if you can't kill it with that, you shouldn't be shooting at it. things are different nowadays. people would rather buy more lead/steel to throw at it than learn to shoot better. (no offense intended to anyone here. this just seems to be the trend.)
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Postby Swamp Puppy » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:09 pm

one of my favorite duck loads is the Federal SpeedShock 2 3/4" with 1oz of #2 flying at 1375fps. inexpensive (about 5.99 a box regular price) and a very effective killer for close in shots (25 yards less) over dekes.

for later in the year when the shots range out to 30-40 yards i usually step up to a 3" shell pushing 1 1/4 oz loads of #1's at 1400 fps.

personally, if it is past 35 yards i usually won't drop the hammer. i like my ducks to hit the water and float...not take off swim/flapping for another 100 yards while the dog trys to chase it down.


Also, Donell mentioned earlier that he likes to use a 3.5" shell for those longer shots and that, in his opinion, the 2 3/4 or 3" shells wouldn't be as effective. in my opinion, he is right. the larger shot payloads make the 3.5" shell a much better choice for the type of shooting he described.
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Postby duckboy_390 » Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:26 pm

It doesn't matter whether you shoot 2.75, 3, or 3.5 inch shells, as long as they have adaquate velocity(very important for steel) to kill at the distances that you are shooting of you have good pattern density. I would rather shoot faster (1600-1800 fps) 2.75" reloads with a reduced payload than heavier, slower 3.5" shells, as long as you can hold the pattern together downrange, which is where aftermarket chokes come into play.
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Postby Pete-pec » Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:15 pm

Duckboy,
Please reply to my post on the reloading forum, I think you're just the guy I'm looking for. Looking for that exact recipe you're talking about. Pete :thumbsup:
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Postby DUKHTR » Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:05 am

between Puppy and DuckBoy....there is nothing to add.....they have hit all the bases.

I am a firm consituant of velocity when using steel. Speed gets the impact (foot pounds of energy) neede to bring down waterfowl effectively.

I guess I am of the minority, in that, I use 2 3/4" shells for about 90% of my shooting....have never used 3 1/2".....I do rend to take only close in shots, but even on eider and scoter at 40 yards I am killing birds, so why change. If confident withaparticular load then by all means stay with it! As mentioned I shoot alot of seaducks, and I use #2 steel most days which for most guys is too small, but I know where my gun hits.

When using the 20g guns I do go up to 3" shells for the slight increase in payload capacity.

A bit off topic..... I used Hevi this past season and liked it....just too darn expensive at $15 for ten to be used alot.....steel works just fine after the inprovements we have seen in the past 15 years.
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Postby Swamp Puppy » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:23 am

i am with you DUK. i use a lot of 2 3/4 inch stuff as well. i will step up to 3" when i got to shot sizes larger than #2 however.

as for the Hevi. personally, the only advantage i see to it now is that you can use a much smaller shot, like #6's, and be very effective out to the outer ranges of most people's shooting abilities (or even farther in some cases...heh heh) but, like you, i find it waaay to expensive to shoot in relation to what you can get off the shelf (or reload your own) in steel these days.
Last edited by Swamp Puppy on Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Pete-pec » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:21 am

I too use 2 and 3/4 for all my shooting. Shot everything from early season woodies to geese in December to sea ducks in January. I hunt with alot of fellas that have to have their 3 and 1/2 inchers, I'm not knocking them, but we shoot an equal amount of birds. I typically shoot decoying birds, so I have the luxury of taking those close and personal shots. When we were out sea duck hunting this year in Mass., I could go to the hotel room at the end of the day without a big old bruise on my shoulder. DUKHTR knows what I mean, when the sea ducks are flying the shooting is fast and furious, and it's surprising how fast you can go through a box or two of shells. Those ducks fly mach 5 and don't die very easily. :laughing: I always tell the boys that if you shoot a duck in the head and neck, he's going to go down, so if you use a 3 and 1/2 incher and hit that duck in the *** it really doesn't help you much. I usually tell newbies to actually try to aim ahead of the duck to the point that you'd think you'd miss, and you'd be surprized at how your kill ratio will rise. It's nice to see more short shell shooters out there! :thumbsup: Pete
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Postby Gooseboy » Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:22 pm

im with all yall
The group ended up with 420 birds.

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Postby AlaskaRedneK » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:40 pm

Not much else to add, except that contrary to popular belief, (Bigger IS Better). I dont care what anyone else says, the more steel flyin downrange (with the same velocity), does more damage, and makes a better pattern. (period) :thumbsup: Even though I cant always aford bigger shells, there is no doubt in my mind that they are better. :thumbsup:


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Postby Greg Wile » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:28 pm

I use 2 3/4" and 3" shells for every thing. Mostly #2 and BB every now and the I will buy a box of 3" BBB if I am going after geese exclusively. But we bring down a lot of geese with 2 3/4" #2s 1 and 1/8th oz. loads at 1375 fps to 1550 fps.
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Postby gahunter » Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:49 pm

3 inch #2's or #4's always do it for me. They can work on a shoulder as is, I don't want to even think about any 3 1/2s. If you take good shots at a reasonable range it doesn't matter what size you use as long as it is fast enough to penetrate. :thumbsup:
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Postby macdaddy » Wed Apr 06, 2005 10:59 am

I'm a 10ga. 3 1/2'r myself. But, DUKHTR - you're on the money w/ no.2's.I blew down two Canada's two months ago w/ no.2 steel. Rem's (wish they'd been Federals, but Fed's in 10 are getting hard to get 'round here - plus the Rem's were cheaper).
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Postby 870 » Fri Apr 15, 2005 9:44 pm

I know this is an old topic, but I have to agree with Swamp Pup, DuckHtr. A thirty-yard shot is a long shot for me. 2 3/4in #2s is about all I use, it nocks them Butt-end over apple cart. I do use 3in #2s in late season depending on the day and the wind.

I have this guy at work, which kept telling me “I needed a 3 1/2in,” and “I wood be smart to buy 10ga.” I thought to my self I’ve got see this guy in action, so I took him on a night-hunt. I can’t begin to tell you how impressed I was; he brought his 10ga, he was shooting reloaded Ts. To make a long story short he missed every duck, and goose, he shoot at. Oh he did hit the one that landed in my decoys. That drake Mallard was 20yrds away; it took two shots to kill it, with 10ga Ts I thought, “I would be smart” not to take this Ya hoo again. And I haven’t.

I don’t know, I guess I’m old school, don’t get me wrong. More power [ no pun intended ] to the guys who have them, but I don’t see the need for all that fire power. Over the years I’ve killed a lot geese and ducks with my 2 ¾ and 3in #2s. Besides I want them so close I can see them say to them selves OH SH$$
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Postby had » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:58 pm

:toofunny:
870 wrote:
Besides I want them so close I can see them say to them selves OH SH$$
i love when i see that look on thier face!
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Postby Felsenthal » Sat Apr 16, 2005 3:31 pm

3" #6 Hevi Shot




The be all end all in close range mallard killing
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Postby Ducks » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:07 pm

Felsenthal
, Hey bro are you in the union ? That what you have about not taking your dog and etc , sounds like the tramp guide for the international brotherhood of electricial workers :eek:
Its all good just making a point bro :cool:
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Postby Felsenthal » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:33 pm

An old timer gave me some sage advice about duck hunting. Following his etiquitte has opened many doors for me duck hunting wise. It unlocked the key to a dream duck camp membership as well.

These old mores have been lost in the " me " society we live in my good man.

In the olden days, a newcomer or guest never even pulled out their duck call much less blew unless asked to do so when invited on a hunt. You left your dog at home as well unless asked to do so. You always came to a hunt with soft drinks or snacks in hand and you thanked you host for the opportunity. You never spoke in public after a hunt about what yoiu killed either. Still today in the South and along the old river camps in IL, it is considered bad manners to pull your call out univited.

I believe waterfowling is the class sport when it comes to hunting. I believe the finest people on earth and good dependable sports who duck and geese hunt. I believe in following the old norms our predecessors handed down to us.

Following my adivce will get you invited back. It will get you the chance to strut your stuff if you have the ability to call or if you have a good dog.

I can't tell you the number of times I have invited a man to hunt only to have him show up with three or four additional people and two extra dogs. I cannot tell you the number of times I have taken a man to a public place I found that holds ducks and then come back to see over ten different hunters in the hole the next five times I try to hunt it just for a morning not to be greedy. I cannot tell you the number of times my dog has been attacked by an uninvited guest's dog.

Maybe I sound like a jerk with that signature but I am not. I want others to help me in carrying on the tradition of being a Gentleman hunter. I have given up on taking others hunting. I know it sounds selfish but it is what it is. Duck hunting draws successful people. It opens doors. I am in my mid life but some of you young men are good hunters and callers. You will have opportunities to be a guest of people who can help you down the road. You will have the chance to have doors opened that you could not have imagined just by being able to take a call and put ducks on the water if you play your cards right.

Follow what I say. Many of you have no idea of the caliber of men who pursue our sport with a passion. Did you know David Oreck of Oreck vaccum cleaners is an avid hunter? Did you know Justice Scaglia of the U.S. Supreme Court is a ravenous duck hunter who loves to hunt in South Louisiana? The sky is the limit in more ways than one.
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Postby Felsenthal » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:36 pm

Also Ducks: I am a native of South Arkansas. No where is the axiom of keeping the call in the pocket more alive today than there. I do not have to tell you that duck hunting opens many doors and there are some rich son of a guns from The Land of Oppprtunity that value a young man like yourself that can call ducks.
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Postby had » Sun Apr 17, 2005 12:42 am

Never show up as a guest on a hunt with your dog. Never take the best shooting spot. Leave the call in your pocket. Never ask to come back. Keep your mouth shut after the hunt. Always bring gifts. "

common sense in my book. :thumbsup:
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