Guns of old compared to today

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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:17 pm

3200 man wrote:With you 2 fellas bringing Winchester into this discussion , I'll have to say , my Mod 12's have served me well !
Shooting everything from the cheapest 2 3/4" 7/8 oz to some 3" hot handloads Buffered in 1 3/8 oz of shot .
They are still working today with some shooting over 300,000 rounds through them sooo , what can I say ?
And they have nice looking wood-sets and Bradley beads , not made of plastic with a glow in the dark thing on the barrel !

But , time will tell if todays guns can compare to ones made 75 years ago ?


1964...Winchester ditched quality and hand fitting for mass production as when comparing the X1 to the 1400 and/or the M12 to the 1200. Something about trying to make a silk purse outa a sow's ear?
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby cluckmeister » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:28 pm

Yuchi1 wrote:
3200 man wrote:With you 2 fellas bringing Winchester into this discussion , I'll have to say , my Mod 12's have served me well !
Shooting everything from the cheapest 2 3/4" 7/8 oz to some 3" hot handloads Buffered in 1 3/8 oz of shot .
They are still working today with some shooting over 300,000 rounds through them sooo , what can I say ?
And they have nice looking wood-sets and Bradley beads , not made of plastic with a glow in the dark thing on the barrel !

But , time will tell if todays guns can compare to ones made 75 years ago ?


1964...Winchester ditched quality and hand fitting for mass production as when comparing the X1 to the 1400 and/or the M12 to the 1200. Something about trying to make a silk purse outa a sow's ear?


There was only one gun produced by Winchester that went down hill in 64 and that was the model 94, and the quality on that gun suffered for several years. How ever Winchester still produced great guns in that era like the Models 70,23 and 101
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby z51 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:39 am

cluckmeister wrote:BurninPowder, I may have to do that. As for the value I agree the Super x1 will only go up in value. As for the one I have, I traded a guy a nice 870 pump for it. He said it wouldn't cycle light loads and his son hated it. It sat in my safe for about 4 years before I decided to do a after season project. His son had not taken care of the gun although the blueing was about 90% with out to many wear marks the wood was all scratched up with dings. Before starting the project I did a bunch of research and found out that about the only thing that wears out on them was the plastic bolt buffer, I ordered one and while waiting for it to come I carefully stripped the finish off . I then proceeded to sand and sweat out the dings, using a soldering iron and wet paper towel. After the stock was all sanded and dings removed, I stained and filled the wood and finished it with 12 coats of hand rubbed Tru Oil. I replaced the bolt buffer, put it back together and its gorgeous. The buffer was the problem, it now cycles everything I put thru it. I showed it to him last fall and he couldn't believe it was the same gun.

Ive looked at a ton of shotguns over the last several years and haven't found anything in auto loaders that come close to having as smooth an action and that includes all the B guns everyone raves about.

Are the guns of old better than the new, as far as quality, Id say so


Hey Cluck, how would replacing the bolt buffer help a SX 1 cycle light loads? It has notbing to do with cycling. All it does is cushion the rear of the bolt when heavy loads are used. I would suggest something else you did solved the problem. Like cleaning the action spring tube or replacing the o-ring or just more thorough cleaning.

My SX1 will cycle light loads with the buffer completely missing. (Don't ask me how I know).
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby 3200 man » Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:41 am

At Nuline inc. , Stu can make the Mod 12 and SX1's into new again as he has all the Winchester parts in inventory .

One of my 3" mod 12's has been set-up for shooting steel shot as the forcing cone was length'n and the long choke opened
to .017 with 1 1/2" of parallel , big pellets up to BB's size , shoots really well in the gun and it always opens eyes with
other hunters when I'm packing it in the marsh , pretty wood and all ! I won't say it's faster than a auto but , just as
Deadly ! :yes:
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby mudpack » Thu Jun 12, 2014 7:34 am

3200 man wrote:One of my 3" mod 12's ..... always opens eyes with other hunters when I'm packing it in the marsh...


Why is that?
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby cluckmeister » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:43 am

z51 wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:BurninPowder, I may have to do that. As for the value I agree the Super x1 will only go up in value. As for the one I have, I traded a guy a nice 870 pump for it. He said it wouldn't cycle light loads and his son hated it. It sat in my safe for about 4 years before I decided to do a after season project. His son had not taken care of the gun although the blueing was about 90% with out to many wear marks the wood was all scratched up with dings. Before starting the project I did a bunch of research and found out that about the only thing that wears out on them was the plastic bolt buffer, I ordered one and while waiting for it to come I carefully stripped the finish off . I then proceeded to sand and sweat out the dings, using a soldering iron and wet paper towel. After the stock was all sanded and dings removed, I stained and filled the wood and finished it with 12 coats of hand rubbed Tru Oil. I replaced the bolt buffer, put it back together and its gorgeous. The buffer was the problem, it now cycles everything I put thru it. I showed it to him last fall and he couldn't believe it was the same gun.

Ive looked at a ton of shotguns over the last several years and haven't found anything in auto loaders that come close to having as smooth an action and that includes all the B guns everyone raves about.

Are the guns of old better than the new, as far as quality, Id say so


Hey Cluck, how would replacing the bolt buffer help a SX 1 cycle light loads? It has notbing to do with cycling. All it does is cushion the rear of the bolt when heavy loads are used. I would suggest something else you did solved the problem. Like cleaning the action spring tube or replacing the o-ring or just more thorough cleaning.

My SX1 will cycle light loads with the buffer completely missing. (Don't ask me how I know).



The bolt buffer in this gun was completely disintegrated , so, I believe what was happening, the bolt was going to far back, throwing the cycling action out of time. The bolt was going so far back, it actually misshaped the radius a bit at the rear of the groove. I really don't feel it was my cleaning it that fixed the issue and I didn't replace the o ring ,just lubed it.

Did you shoot any heavy loads in it with out the buffer? If you did you got lucky if it didn't misshape that radius.
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby cluckmeister » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:49 am

mudpack wrote:
3200 man wrote:One of my 3" mod 12's ..... always opens eyes with other hunters when I'm packing it in the marsh...


Why is that?

\

Id say most other guys in the marsh have never even seen a model 12. Reason being the average age of todays duck hunter is about 40. Heck I haven't seen any body carrying a Model 12 in 25 years myself
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby z51 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:47 am

cluckmeister wrote:
z51 wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:BurninPowder, I may have to do that. As for the value I agree the Super x1 will only go up in value. As for the one I have, I traded a guy a nice 870 pump for it. He said it wouldn't cycle light loads and his son hated it. It sat in my safe for about 4 years before I decided to do a after season project. His son had not taken care of the gun although the blueing was about 90% with out to many wear marks the wood was all scratched up with dings. Before starting the project I did a bunch of research and found out that about the only thing that wears out on them was the plastic bolt buffer, I ordered one and while waiting for it to come I carefully stripped the finish off . I then proceeded to sand and sweat out the dings, using a soldering iron and wet paper towel. After the stock was all sanded and dings removed, I stained and filled the wood and finished it with 12 coats of hand rubbed Tru Oil. I replaced the bolt buffer, put it back together and its gorgeous. The buffer was the problem, it now cycles everything I put thru it. I showed it to him last fall and he couldn't believe it was the same gun.

Ive looked at a ton of shotguns over the last several years and haven't found anything in auto loaders that come close to having as smooth an action and that includes all the B guns everyone raves about.

Are the guns of old better than the new, as far as quality, Id say so


Hey Cluck, how would replacing the bolt buffer help a SX 1 cycle light loads? It has notbing to do with cycling. All it does is cushion the rear of the bolt when heavy loads are used. I would suggest something else you did solved the problem. Like cleaning the action spring tube or replacing the o-ring or just more thorough cleaning.

My SX1 will cycle light loads with the buffer completely missing. (Don't ask me how I know).



The bolt buffer in this gun was completely disintegrated , so, I believe what was happening, the bolt was going to far back, throwing the cycling action out of time. The bolt was going so far back, it actually misshaped the radius a bit at the rear of the groove. I really don't feel it was my cleaning it that fixed the issue and I didn't replace the o ring ,just lubed it.

Did you shoot any heavy loads in it with out the buffer? If you did you got lucky if it didn't misshape that radius.


If the action spring is good the bolt never touches buffer with light loads. The inside of my receiver is battered from shooting after the buffer disintegrated at least twice. The reason I kept shooting is the gun never malfunctioned at all, and I was shooting heavy field loads one time, and my steel reloads the other.
I discovered the problem both times when I dissasembled the gun for cleaning when I got home. That's why I personally don't believe the buffer affects light load cycle. Heavy load maybe but it didn't in my case. Whatever, I learned to keep a spare buffer in my bag. :thumbsup:
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby cluckmeister » Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:05 am

z51 wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:
z51 wrote:
cluckmeister wrote:BurninPowder, I may have to do that. As for the value I agree the Super x1 will only go up in value. As for the one I have, I traded a guy a nice 870 pump for it. He said it wouldn't cycle light loads and his son hated it. It sat in my safe for about 4 years before I decided to do a after season project. His son had not taken care of the gun although the blueing was about 90% with out to many wear marks the wood was all scratched up with dings. Before starting the project I did a bunch of research and found out that about the only thing that wears out on them was the plastic bolt buffer, I ordered one and while waiting for it to come I carefully stripped the finish off . I then proceeded to sand and sweat out the dings, using a soldering iron and wet paper towel. After the stock was all sanded and dings removed, I stained and filled the wood and finished it with 12 coats of hand rubbed Tru Oil. I replaced the bolt buffer, put it back together and its gorgeous. The buffer was the problem, it now cycles everything I put thru it. I showed it to him last fall and he couldn't believe it was the same gun.

Ive looked at a ton of shotguns over the last several years and haven't found anything in auto loaders that come close to having as smooth an action and that includes all the B guns everyone raves about.

Are the guns of old better than the new, as far as quality, Id say so


Hey Cluck, how would replacing the bolt buffer help a SX 1 cycle light loads? It has notbing to do with cycling. All it does is cushion the rear of the bolt when heavy loads are used. I would suggest something else you did solved the problem. Like cleaning the action spring tube or replacing the o-ring or just more thorough cleaning.

My SX1 will cycle light loads with the buffer completely missing. (Don't ask me how I know).



The bolt buffer in this gun was completely disintegrated , so, I believe what was happening, the bolt was going to far back, throwing the cycling action out of time. The bolt was going so far back, it actually misshaped the radius a bit at the rear of the groove. I really don't feel it was my cleaning it that fixed the issue and I didn't replace the o ring ,just lubed it.

Did you shoot any heavy loads in it with out the buffer? If you did you got lucky if it didn't misshape that radius.


If the action spring is good the bolt never touches buffer with light loads. The inside of my receiver is battered from shooting after the buffer disintegrated at least twice. The reason I kept shooting is the gun never malfunctioned at all, and I was shooting heavy field loads one time, and my steel reloads the other.
I discovered the problem both times when I dissasembled the gun for cleaning when I got home. That's why I personally don't believe the buffer affects light load cycle. Heavy load maybe but it didn't in my case. Whatever, I learned to keep a spare buffer in my bag. :thumbsup:


Its hard to say why my friends son had an issue with light loads, Since I've redone the gun its been flawless with both light lead loads and steel duck loads. I didn't do anything but oil the action spring as well as the o ring. I figured what had happened was the kid shot a ton of heavy pheasant loads thru it after the buffer went to pieces, thus the bolt went to far back and misshaped the radius, then when he tried to shoot dove loads the next season, the bolt even tho it didn't hit the buffer was allowed to go back slightly farther than normal, thus throwing the action out of timing by just a hair.
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby z51 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:05 pm

As long as it works thats the main thing.
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Re: Guns of old compared to today

Postby 3200 man » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:15 pm

Mud

For one thing , you don't have to worry about Bolt buffers !

Mod 12's and 870 WM have stood the test of time , with some mighty heavy loads shot through them too !

And , they're still working just fine !.......If you know how to point'em straight ?
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