1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

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1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby Felix the cat » Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:38 pm

I am going to load a 2-3/4 12ga shell with 1-1/4oz of steel wih a roll crimp, anyone have data for this load. I have been loading shells for a loooong time and allready load 1-1/8oz at 1470 fps and am looking for somthing different, and I shoot a 10ga so am not interested in longer 3'' or 3-1/2'' 12ga,. The load I am going to build is a 2-3/4 Fiocchi hull, Fiocchi 616 primer, 32gr Blue Dot, LBC 50 wad with 2 slits, 1-1/4 oz # 1 steel shot, over shot wad and a roll crimp. this load is for the occasional goose while I am duck hunting, if I am pursuing geese on purpose and I mean real geese ( Honkers ) not stupid snows I use 2 oz of #2 hevi shot in 10ga, reloads of course. I live on fir island, Skagit county, WA so don't give me any grief about snows I kill plenty but prefer to hunt ducks.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby cannon » Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:30 am

Felix the cat wrote:I am going to load a 2-3/4 12ga shell with 1-1/4oz of steel wih a roll crimp, anyone have data for this load. I have been loading shells for a loooong time and allready load 1-1/8oz at 1470 fps and am looking for somthing different, and I shoot a 10ga so am not interested in longer 3'' or 3-1/2'' 12ga,. The load I am going to build is a 2-3/4 Fiocchi hull, Fiocchi 616 primer, 32gr Blue Dot, LBC 50 wad with 2 slits, 1-1/4 oz # 1 steel shot, over shot wad and a roll crimp. this load is for the occasional goose while I am duck hunting, if I am pursuing geese on purpose and I mean real geese ( Honkers ) not stupid snows I use 2 oz of #2 hevi shot in 10ga, reloads of course. I live on fir island, Skagit county, WA so don't give me any grief about snows I kill plenty but prefer to hunt ducks.


Well, I'm not trying to get in your business, but I'd definitely get that one tested for pressure before I fired a whole bunch of 'em. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big Blue Dot user, so I'm not exactly on top of its spec's, but it seems like you could get more bang for the buck out of a few less grains of Alliant Steel powder. Here's why I say that:

BPI's data suggests a 1 1/8 oz load with LBC 43's using a 2.75" fiocchi hull & primer with 32 grains of blue dot @ 11,000 psi, and it claims a 1,500 fps velocity. Moving to Alliant Steel and using 34 grains in the same recipe drops pressure to 8,800 psi, with a published velocity of 1,475. The same powder charge (32 grains, Blue Dot) using a 3" Fiocchi hull and a 1 1/4 oz load nets 1,425 fps @ 10,600 psi, whereas a 32.5 grain Alliant Steel charge using the same data gets you 1,450 fps @ 8,800 psi.

Adding an eighth of an ounce to the 2.75" Fiocchi/Blue Dot load that is published @ 11,000 psi is definitely going to send you above SAAMI thresholds for 3" guns, and quite possibly for 3.5" guns. Swapping off to a 32.5 grain Alliant Steel charge will probably keep you within safe operating pressures. In any event, using Steel powder for that particular load would dramatically reduce pressures and result in a significant reduction in wear-and-tear on your firearm.

My only other suggestion would be to go with an LBC 43, rather than 50. The 43's will handle a full 1 1/4 oz load at setback, and you wouldn't have to deal with the possibility of having to trim all the wads. Like I said, I'm not tryin' to get in your business, so take that for what its worth.

Good Luck!
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby 10gaOkie » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:20 pm

I agree with what Cannon said. Stick with Alliant Steel powder instead of Blue Dot. If I were you, I would work from a 3" hull - folded crimp recipe instead of 2 3/4". There is alot more data for that 1 1/4oz shot charge in 3". Finding data for that Fiochi hull and primer might prove to be difficult. I am working on a 1 1/4oz load of #1s now. Only I am working from a published recipe and adjusting from it slightly. Starting out with 3" Cheddite hulls, CX2000 Ched primer, Alliant Steel powder and a s35 B&P wad. I have already established the load with folded crimps and now will move on to rto crimp with BPI plastic osc disks.

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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby BT Justice » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:48 pm

I'm just curious how he is going to get a 50 mm wad in a 2 3/4" hull along with 32 grains of Blue Dot and then be able to put any type of crimp on it let alone a roll crimp.......... :huh: :no:
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby vertical_edge_800 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:00 pm

Kinda what I was thinking..
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby pinks » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:05 pm

Well,to give the man his due,you can roll loads that are too tight to crimp.Because the man is using 1 steel,it would be easier in a 3" case,but with the right wad and case selection,I would think entirely possible and quite within pressure limits with Steel powder and quite probably with Blue Dot.If I had some Blue dot,I would try it myself.The biggest problem is the size of shot,takes up a lot of room.
My duck load is roll turnover,1 3/8 ths 3s in a 3" case,but if I go to 1s or BB I would need to go to 1 1/4 oz.
Probably a cut down 3" wad would work better that a 2 3/4",but you would have to go by trial and error.
Good luck with your project,it's just the sort of thing I would do.
Make sure you use the plastic over shot discs and not cards,much more effective.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby cannon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:33 pm

I've got data from an older edition of Lymans using a 1 1/4 oz load and a precision reloading wad in a Fed paper basewad hull and blue dot. I tried, but just couldn't make it fit. I can tell you, however, that it called for WAAAAAAAY less than 34 grains of powder.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby pinks » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:01 pm

I just loaded 1 1/4 1s in a 2 3/4 " Cheddite,with B&P 3" wad,which I had to cut down,but I only have Steel powder and used 35.5 grains.Stacks of space in there.
stihl and roll turnover 002.jpg



Well I really must apologise.
I loaded some more of that load but with the LBC 3" wad and it is very tight.It will just work with 35 grains lot 16 steel powder and a B&P 3" wad.
Am I a man or a Muppet? Me thinks a Muppet,I somehow did not put enough shot in the first one I loaded!
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Last edited by pinks on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby Felix the cat » Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Thanks for the advice on my project, I should have mentioned that I am going to use new hulls full length and Blue dot powder because it is not as bulky as Steel. I am will start at 29 grains and work up to the velocity I want any thing over 1300 will be fine I used 32 gr as a max because it fit with enough room to roll crimp. My biggest issue is getting hard data on roll crimping.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby cannon » Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:10 pm

Pinks would be "da man".
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby pinks » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:04 pm

I would use the TPS 2 3/4 " wad in that load,I think you will get good fit and good patterns.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby gtb » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:59 pm

pinks wrote:...
Make sure you use the plastic over shot discs and not cards,much more effective.


More effective in what way?
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby 10gaOkie » Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:01 pm

The card stock overshot cards come out the end of the barrel in one piece and tend to blow patterns. The BPI plastic discs have scores in them. Upon ignition, they break into small pieces and do not blow patterns.

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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby BT Justice » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:15 am

Felix the cat wrote:Thanks for the advice on my project, I should have mentioned that I am going to use new hulls full length and Blue dot powder because it is not as bulky as Steel. I am will start at 29 grains and work up to the velocity I want any thing over 1300 will be fine I used 32 gr as a max because it fit with enough room to roll crimp. My biggest issue is getting hard data on roll crimping.

You would be able to fit the load a bit better in the hull if you used a ball type powder vs a flake powder. You can fit the 3" RSI wad in a 2 3/4" Gold medal hull if you use Winchester 540/HS-6, Winchester 571/HS-7 or Longshot. Of the three the best choice would have been W571/HS-7 however that's not currently in production, Longshot would be a good choice but it's just to touchy to experiment with if you don't have pressure test equipment. I made a load up several years ago with Longshot and the 3" wad in the Gold Medal hull for 1 1/4 oz of shot...it worked well but I saw no advantage to it over a 3" hull so I don't know if I kept any notes on it or not. Have to look around in some boxes and see if I kept anything on it.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby pinks » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:26 am

Too much give in paper or cork when you apply the roll.With plastic you can really give it some jip ,especially on tight loads.You can finish loads with plastic that would never crimp or load with paper or cork over shot cards.
Plus what Tengaokie said.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby Felix the cat » Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:03 pm

I really appreciate everyones advice, exacly what I was looking for. The point of this project is that I shoot a 2-3/'4' 1200 beretta with a fixed " modified " choke , back in the olden days of lead I SHOT 1-1/2 oz of 5% antimony lead reloads in a Win AA case that would throw 100% patterns at 40 yds, I still have some of these loads and can prove it on demand, unfortunatly Win doesnt make 571 any more so I am going to work on a substitute but it's not that important to me. Just want to get as close to that performace as I can get with steel and factory loads don't cut it.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby BT Justice » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:24 am

Felix the cat wrote:I really appreciate everyones advice, exacly what I was looking for. The point of this project is that I shoot a 2-3/'4' 1200 beretta with a fixed " modified " choke , back in the olden days of lead I SHOT 1-1/2 oz of 5% antimony lead reloads in a Win AA case that would throw 100% patterns at 40 yds, I still have some of these loads and can prove it on demand, unfortunatly Win doesnt make 571 any more so I am going to work on a substitute but it's not that important to me. Just want to get as close to that performace as I can get with steel and factory loads don't cut it.

IMHO performance wise you would probably be better off with a load of 1 1/16 oz -1 1/8 oz # 3 steel than tying to sqeeze a large slow load in 2 3/4" hull. If your looking for 100% patterns @ 40 yards I would use Hevi Shot...it can be done with steel but not witout lots of trial and error patterning.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby Felix the cat » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:02 pm

As I previously stated I load 1-1/8oz at 1470fps don' remember if I mentioned it's #3 steel and I do agree that heavy shot is very effective both in results and in draining my wallet, my gun does like it though. But it seems like whenever I see geese way out there heading my way and I load my gun with heavy shot I end up shooting ducks with it instead and there goes 8 bucks As to alot of trial and patterning what else am I supposed to do when huntin is closed.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby lostknife4 » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:18 pm

Ditto but with TSS Lost
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby pinks » Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:04 pm

pinks wrote:I just loaded 1 1/4 1s in a 2 3/4 " Cheddite,with B&P 3" wad,which I had to cut down,but I only have Steel powder and used 35.5 grains.Stacks of space in there.
stihl and roll turnover 002.jpg



Well I really must apologise.
I loaded some more of that load but with the LBC 3" wad and it is very tight.It will just work with 35 grains lot 16 steel powder and a B&P 3" wad.
Am I a man or a Muppet? Me thinks a Muppet,I somehow did not put enough shot in the first one I loaded!
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:44 pm

I'd really like to have a GM 2-3/4" loaded with 1 oz TSS #7 roll crimp, plastic OS card , Steel or HS-6, Sam1 or TPS, any primer. No filler wad or cards, maybe a mylar wrap.

Anyone have a recipe to share?

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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby buck whistler » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:01 pm

I looked thru the new BP 6th advantages manual and nothing was even close to what you want to reload.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby 10gaOkie » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:24 pm

One of my favorite loads happens to be a 1 1/4oz of #1s using a new Ched 2 3/4" hull. I load it with 36gr of Asteel powder and a B&P wad plus a rto crimp. " Keep in mind though, by using a untrimmed 2 3/4" hull plus the rto crimp, I now have a 3" shell volume." The over all length of this loaded shell is the same as a factory 3" shell but still its loaded with a 2 3/4" hull. When using a BPI plastic disc, there is no extra room for any more volume of shot. 1 1/4oz is all she wrote. If you intend to load up a 2 3/4" length shell, I think 1 1/8oz is going to be as far as you can go even using the rto crimp.

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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby Felix the cat » Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:59 am

I should have updated everyone a long time ago but I have been busy. I am very happy with the results of this project and would like to thank everyone for their advice especially pinks. I had never roll crimped shells before last year and now after loading 3 cases I think I have a pretty good handle on it. An 1-1/4 oz of steel fits very nicely in a 2-3/4 cheddite 12 ga hull with a roll crimp and 34 grs Steel powder wih a LBC 50 wad and cycles through my Beretta 1200 fine, just what I wanted. I have a very effective load that works for most of my hunting without playing musical shells. Be advised these shells are as long as a loaded 3 inch shell and may not cycle in other 2-3/4 guns.
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Re: 1-1/4 oz steel loads in 2-3/4 12ga roll crimp

Postby Fowlweather_13 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:46 am

BT Justice wrote:
Felix the cat wrote:Thanks for the advice on my project, I should have mentioned that I am going to use new hulls full length and Blue dot powder because it is not as bulky as Steel. I am will start at 29 grains and work up to the velocity I want any thing over 1300 will be fine I used 32 gr as a max because it fit with enough room to roll crimp. My biggest issue is getting hard data on roll crimping.

You would be able to fit the load a bit better in the hull if you used a ball type powder vs a flake powder. You can fit the 3" RSI wad in a 2 3/4" Gold medal hull if you use Winchester 540/HS-6, Winchester 571/HS-7 or Longshot. Of the three the best choice would have been W571/HS-7 however that's not currently in production, Longshot would be a good choice but it's just to touchy to experiment with if you don't have pressure test equipment. I made a load up several years ago with Longshot and the 3" wad in the Gold Medal hull for 1 1/4 oz of shot...it worked well but I saw no advantage to it over a 3" hull so I don't know if I kept any notes on it or not. Have to look around in some boxes and see if I kept anything on it.



BT did you ever have find any notes on that Longshot load you spoke about earlier just wondering thanks.
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