Explain Heavy Metal to me please

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Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby TimeMachine » Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:56 am

I am very familiar with Hevi-Shot and it's mass porperties.

What is Heavy Metal??? and are they any good? Looking for a little more umpfff for my kids 20ga during goose season.

Thanks ahead.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby Jim Atlas » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:09 am

The idea is to encrease the pellet count by making half of the payload a denser shot. Lets say you use 1 oz of #3 steel shot. that's 158 pellets in the load. With Hevi Metal, the idea is: 1/2 oz #3 steel (79) + 1/2 oz #6 HS (118) = 197 pellets in the shell. Now, I've guessed at the numbers by assuming they're blending #6 HS--I have no idea if that's the case or not.
Personally, I think it's a good idea (more shot = denser pattern), but not good enough to warrent the price tag. I'd say the same thing about the TSS that Lost is pro-staffing for (sorry). Just too damn expensive. But to each his own.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby tornadochaser » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:36 am

It's marketed as a pattern density load.
X amount of steel shot, say a #2, loaded with Y amount of tungsten, sized to match the ballistics of the steel 2. The tungsten is around 10 g/cc, and probably in sizes 4 or 5 to match the larger steel. Theory is that they can pack more of the smaller pellets in the load. They claim up to 28% pellet count increase, which might be the case in the BB load, but from the #2's i cut open, it wasn't a 28% increase in pellet count. More like 10%.

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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:29 am

Load up some TSS in that 20ga and watch him out shoot you, best thing that could ever happen for both you and him AND the Geese he is shooting at.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby z51 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:09 pm

Bottom line it's not worth the cost. If you want more pellets shoot 1 1/4 oz of #3s.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:10 pm

tornadochaser wrote:It's marketed as a pattern density load.
X amount of steel shot, say a #2, loaded with Y amount of tungsten, sized to match the ballistics of the steel 2. The tungsten is around 10 g/cc, and probably in sizes 4 or 5 to match the larger steel. Theory is that they can pack more of the smaller pellets in the load. They claim up to 28% pellet count increase, which might be the case in the BB load, but from the #2's i cut open, it wasn't a 28% increase in pellet count. More like 10%.

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Typical representation of more lies from EMI....................
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby Frank Lopez » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:26 pm

lostknife4 wrote:
tornadochaser wrote:It's marketed as a pattern density load.
X amount of steel shot, say a #2, loaded with Y amount of tungsten, sized to match the ballistics of the steel 2. The tungsten is around 10 g/cc, and probably in sizes 4 or 5 to match the larger steel. Theory is that they can pack more of the smaller pellets in the load. They claim up to 28% pellet count increase, which might be the case in the BB load, but from the #2's i cut open, it wasn't a 28% increase in pellet count. More like 10%.

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Typical representation of more lies from EMI....................
Lost


I dunno about lies, but EMI did bend logic a bit. I bought a box of #2 HeviMetal last fall, just to test. I cut open 5 and averaged the results. The bottom line was that while they did increase the pellet count over a similar weight load of just steel, the "Hevi" stuff they used was actually not so heavy. A shade over 10gm/cc is what I found. I patterned 5 loads and at 40 yards, they were no better than standard steel. Well. perhaps they were a wee bit denser, but nothing to get too excited about. Then some on the other members of this forum pointed out that the "heavy" stuff was actually the first to migrate out of the pattern. I couldn't tell from my patterns, and to tell the truth I really wasn't looking. But since I still had some left, I patterned three on some coarse paper. It was pretty tough judging the pellets by the size of the holes, but sure enough, the indication was that the heavy stuff migrated out first. Makes sense when you consider that it's loaded on top of the steel pellets. This struck me as odd, because if they'd reversed it and loaded the heavy stuff on the bottom, its supposed superior ballistic qualities would have come to bear at the longer distance. As it is, all I see is this is nothing more than another overpriced steel load.

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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:41 pm

z51 wrote:Bottom line it's not worth the cost. If you want more pellets shoot 1 1/4 oz of #3s.


Try 3/4 oz TSS # 9................. Lost

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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby z51 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:02 pm

Not worth it. I can buy that Sportsman load for $9 one box at a time. Your load is @$35 a box and I have to load it.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:27 pm

This is a 28 ga load, I load 1 oz #3 Steel for those in your face shots. I shoot a lot less when using TSS because they are so deadly so over the season it's economical for me where I hunt and the guns I use.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby z51 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:36 pm

I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.
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Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby nmbrinkman » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:04 pm

z51 wrote:I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.


I wouldn't look at it that way. You're putting a price on a ducks head. The way I see it is if it gives you 3 or 4 ducks that you wouldn't otherwise get then that's what matters. Wether they are better or not, I don't know. I hunt a place where Canvasback are a real possibility. I'd pay a bit more for shells IF they truly were better if it meant a better shot at bagging a mount worthy bird. I've spent way too much on decoys, calls, waders, jackets, guns and gas to fret over an $100 price difference in a season's worth of shells. That's just me.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby grnhd » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:25 pm

z51 wrote:I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.


One duck for every two shots,including shooting cripples...... :lol3:
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby z51 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:47 pm

grnhd wrote:
z51 wrote:I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.


One duck for every two shots,including shooting cripples...... :lol3:


You sayin I'm lyin boy.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby dsm16428 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:57 pm

Oh good lord. :no:
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby z51 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:42 pm

nmbrinkman wrote:
z51 wrote:I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.


I wouldn't look at it that way. You're putting a price on a ducks head. The way I see it is if it gives you 3 or 4 ducks that you wouldn't otherwise get then that's what matters. Wether they are better or not, I don't know. I hunt a place where Canvasback are a real possibility. I'd pay a bit more for shells IF they truly were better if it meant a better shot at bagging a mount worthy bird. I've spent way too much on decoys, calls, waders, jackets, guns and gas to fret over an $100 price difference in a season's worth of shells. That's just me.


I'm not paying 4 times as much to load my own shells for a marginal difference, Damn right I'm putting a price on a ducks head. It's about killing ducks not a trophy hunt. I go to Africa for those.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby dsm16428 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:49 pm

I go to Cougars on dollar wells night when I want a trophy. :yes:
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby nmbrinkman » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:10 pm

z51 wrote:
nmbrinkman wrote:
z51 wrote:I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.


I wouldn't look at it that way. You're putting a price on a ducks head. The way I see it is if it gives you 3 or 4 ducks that you wouldn't otherwise get then that's what matters. Wether they are better or not, I don't know. I hunt a place where Canvasback are a real possibility. I'd pay a bit more for shells IF they truly were better if it meant a better shot at bagging a mount worthy bird. I've spent way too much on decoys, calls, waders, jackets, guns and gas to fret over an $100 price difference in a season's worth of shells. That's just me.


I'm not paying 4 times as much to load my own shells for a marginal difference, Damn right I'm putting a price on a ducks head. It's about killing ducks not a trophy hunt. I go to Africa for those.


Easy there big time. Just giving you my perspective. And yes I'd pay 4 times more for better shells (especially if you're only shooting 14 shells to get your limit). Not marginal but head and shoulders better. Wether or not they're head and shoulders better is the debate. That's just me though. I still enjoy the idea of a great bird, not just filling a strap. Just as well shoot a bunch of coots IMO.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby arey60 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:30 pm

I shot the 3" #3 for couple years and was great up to 30-35 yds. So I patterned it and noted that the high density pellets had migrated to the periphery of the pattern and by 40 yds the hevi-metal pattern was less dense than the shells with high quality pellets. How are they getting 1.25oz of payload to run 1500fps in a 3" hull?
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby rainingmallards » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:05 pm

That is what my little boy shoots in his 20 Gauge. It is a combination of premium steel and Hevishot
pellets.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby zpstl321 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:02 am

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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:17 am

z51 wrote:
grnhd wrote:
z51 wrote:I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.


One duck for every two shots,including shooting cripples...... :lol3:


You sayin I'm lyin boy.

3 shots per bird would be a pond average over here
and 5 on big water
whatever shells you are using and those numbers were the same back in the days of lead shot too.
sure some days you go better than others but that is a fair square average in my humble opinion.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby z51 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:18 am

Well, some places you get more chances to kill ducks, like Arkansas, and some people call and shoot better than average. It just a fact life. I didn't post my kill average to brag, but to give the reason why loading TSS makes no sense for me. If someone wants to spend $1.25 - $1.50 a shot to roll their own that's fine with me. In my case it make no sense at all.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby grnhd » Thu Aug 15, 2013 5:45 am

z51 wrote:
grnhd wrote:
z51 wrote:I kill an average of 1 duck per 2 shots including cripple shots and have for years. To come out I would have to kill 2 ducks per every. shot with no cripples to break even! :lol3: I don't think that's gonna happen.


One duck for every two shots,including shooting cripples...... :lol3:


You sayin I'm lyin boy.


No,no I believe you. One duck per two shots....and been doing it for years :lol3: :clapping:
Nobody gives a crap about your season totals.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby SPatrick » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:06 am

TimeMachine wrote:I am very familiar with Hevi-Shot and it's mass porperties.

What is Heavy Metal??? and are they any good? Looking for a little more umpfff for my kids 20ga during goose season.

Thanks ahead.


Sorry you asked the wrong group of individuals about hevi metal, these guys would find a way to hate it if HEVI shot sent them free cases of ammo every year. Personally I love it, I am going on my 5th season shooting hevi metal, its been a great load for me. Quite a few of my buddies shoot 20 gauges at ducks, and shoot hevi metal exclusively, and love it. This would be a great load for your kid. Like Tornado said its a duplex load of hevi metal (10g/cc) pellets in front, and steel pellets in the back. Like others have said as well, this is a shell designed for pattern density, and if you are shooting 2's per say, you would expect to find smaller hevi metal pellets about the size of a 4 or a 5. Hope this helps, if you have any other questions please ask. Remember the best way to figure out if a shell works is in the field and on the patterning board, good luck this season. :beer:
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