Explain Heavy Metal to me please

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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby lostknife4 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:55 pm

Bug Doc wrote:
Yuchi1 wrote:
Doc,

Do you have any idea(s) as to why these loads fly apart so quickly?

IMO, the (lightweight @~9gm/cc) tungsten pellets are encountering more and more turbulence as the pattern blooms and thus, exacerbating the spreading phenomen.


I'm not entirely sure why the tungsten shot flies off like it does. Based on the patterns it doesn't appear to be wad interference, nor does it appear like the steel shot is blowing through the tungsten shot. I'm having a similar problem with some ITX-10 I was fooling around with this year: the patterns degrade substantially from 40 to 50 yards. With the ITX I'm guessing the issue is cylindrical belt, which has to provide a great deal of asymmetric drag. It's possible the tungsten shot in Hevi-Metal is small enough, light enough, and misshapen enough to suffer similar drag. It's the best explanation I can come up with. :huh:



Federal's Heavyweight @ 15 g/cm^3 is about the best Tungsten variant on the market as a factory load and is close to being spherical, along with TSS at 18 g/cm^3 which also is almost perfectly spherical and as such is not affected by the air nearly as much as the counterfeit tungsten variants that are everything but spherical. The superior exterior ballistics of a spherical pellet has been proven for a very long time.
What I really can't seem to understand is why anyone would shoot expensive ammunition at less than 35 yards............. I just use steel with the last hull in the magazine being TSS, unless I am on the river and using my 28 ga BPS where it's TSS all the way.
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Last edited by lostknife4 on Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:58 pm

SPatrick wrote:Yuchi, you have to remember that when hevi steel was being marketed the ammo prices were not near as inflated as they are today. Today most folks are willing to spend 20-25 bucks for a box of shells and not bat an eye, at that time (5 years ago) that price was unheard of.


Ten (10) seasons ago, regular steel was actually higher (indexed to today's dollars) than it is running nowadays. HeviSteel was ~$2-4/box higher, so the price differential (then) was nowhere as dramatic as today.

Guys that are raving about HeviMetal obviously didn't shoot HeviSteel as they have no idea of how superior it is to HeviMetal.

HM is $225/case from Rogers which equates out to $22.50/box & I was buying HS (steel) at $185/case ~5 seasons ago.

IMO, you do not need that expensive of a spreader load to spray & pray at <30 yards when a factory CYL tube and $9.90/box Experts will do the same job.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby Anthonyl » Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:21 pm

I have no dog in this hunt, but here goes...

90%+ of the time I shoot Remington Nitro Steel or Kent Silversteels, but I must admit the longest shot I ever made on a duck, 50+ yds (Black duck -Drake), just happened to be with a Heavy Metal 3", 1.25oz, #3's. A buddy handed me a few that day and asked me to try them out. The Duck fell stone dead. Even my son commented, "Wow, Dad! That was a far shot!"

I haven't purchased any since because I have such a stockpile of the Rems and Kents. The question is, could I have made the same shot with those my standard shells? Hmm... I guess so...

Here's my son holding the one:

Image
Last edited by Anthonyl on Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby TimeMachine » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:03 pm

BBK wrote:
TimeMachine wrote:the bird in the 30 yard pattern has been turned into hamburger and for all practical purposes, is not even edible.


Don't understand what you are getting at here?



I'm saying, that load/choke combination is a POOR choice for hunting a bird that size at that distance. My reloader was a present from my dad on my 16th birthday. I am now 61.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:37 pm

Anthonyl wrote:I have no dog in this hunt, but here goes...

90%+ of the time I shoot Remington Nitro Steel or Kent Silversteels, but I must admit the longest shot I ever made on a duck, 50+ yds (Black duck -Drake), just happened to be with a Heavy Metal 3", 1.25oz, #3's. A buddy handed me a few that day and asked me to try them out. The Duck fell stone dead. Even my son commented, "Wow, Dad! That was a far shot!"

I haven't purchased any since because I have such a stockpile of the Rems and Kents. The question is, could I have made the same shot with those my standard shells? Hmm... I guess so...

Here's my son holding the one:

Image


Anthony,

That young man looks like a major league waterfowler to go with the good looking pup! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

BTW, did you examine the bird when dressing it out to see exactly where/what pellets did the job?
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby Anthonyl » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:29 am

To be honest, it was a couple of seasons ago and I'm not exactly sure. I opened up the pic on my PC a bit more and it does appear that there's a shot behind the eye. I asked my son if he had any recollection and he said he remembers blood on his hand from holding the bird, but not much else...

I was looking through my gun case last night and I did find an unopened box of Heavy Steel sitting towards the back. Somehow I just missed them I guess. Maybe I'll give them a whirl this year...
Last edited by Anthonyl on Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby rainingmallards » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:04 am

That is a great picture Anthony. For what it's worth, I have been very impressed with the
Hevimetal shotgun shells as well. I prefer #2's.
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Re: Explain Heavy Metal to me please

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:09 am

SPatrick wrote:
zpstl321 wrote:There really are thousands upon thousands of reviews that say the same thing in slightly different wording


Thats a bit of stretch, maybe from the same few folks.

I get great patterns out of my guns with hevi metal, but I think one thing most of y'all are forgetting is the fact that a large percentage of the general waterfowling public does not give a rats *** about patterning or even think about patterning their load/choke/gun combos. What most of them are concerned with is if they are getting dead ducks in the spread, and with some of the 15-30 yard patterns I have gotten and seen from others, that stuff is very dead. I think people automatically think if it comes from EMI it should be a long range shell, and HM is really not, its a pattern density shell. What people are willing to pay is up to them, and they should not be judged by that. Also ammo is a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend on all the other gear we acquire, Lost you say that all the time and it is 100% true. Also there is the human factor you are all forgetting, and it is based off confidence. 90% of wingshooting is confidence and IMO there is only so much science that can be read into it, and is truly more of an art. Yes patterns help show you where it is you are shooting, but coming up and taking a bird takes confidence, not science.


Shawn I call it "T & A", Technique and Attitude !!!!!!!!!
Generally if your technique is correct and your attitude and confidence is at a high level then your success ratio tends to be right up there too.
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