20 ga patterns

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20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:08 pm

This is more for shovler_shooter but I thought I would share these with everyone as their has been so much debate as of late about the 20. The gun is a Winchester SX3 with Carlson extended IM and FULL tubes I got just last week. The loads are kent #2 shot at 1550 fps and federal blue box #3 shot at 1330 fps.


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Its quite the challenge to circle and count when you have a 24 month old helping you :help: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby lattehead » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:45 pm

1
Last edited by lattehead on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby goosepit2007 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:47 pm

hamerhonkers,

they are very good patterns. :thumbsup:
no disadvantage over 12 gauge those there patterns will pound them up...know that factory shells have better loads with the wads to go along with them. there is no reason not to carry little 20 gauge into the field. with speeds that they have for those loads they are just as capable as the 12 gauge in the field for honkers even.




Thanks for posting
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:13 pm

I just wanted to show people what the little 20 can do. They can certainly hold a patter to ranges that most people can't constantly kill too.

These patterns show why the little 20 has become my gun of choice the last 7 years and why I have added 8 new 20's to my collection in the same time frame. No one should ever feel under gunned when packing the 20.

As you can probably guess the one oz load of 3 shot with the IM will be the choke/load combo for ducks this year with a few hevi 4 shot in my pocket for geese.

Should be a great season with this combo!

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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby goosepit2007 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:38 pm

not to hi jack your thread, that is why if a guy reloads at all the light fast loads in 12 gauge are top notch for those that get ducks over decoys and in pocket and all there shots are shot under 40 yards. even to 48 really. the percieved kick is alot less ect, with alot faster follow up shots. which is true for little 20 gauge too.

I shot quite few snows this spring with little 20 gauge with 2's and 3's did not feel that i was handicapped at all. they were just as dead as my 12 gauge reloads and factory.

one thing with 20 gauges they are easy to bring up (light weight) and shoulder perty easy. i always bring my 20 gauge with me and when i start razing people that are missing alot of ducks and geese feet down i pull out the 20 out of the case and start smaking ducks and geese just as i was with my 12 gauge. it gets the conversation going perty good.

it is to bad that the load data is little light on count for loads well from rsi any ways i have hard time trusting bpi data but maybe i should get there manual just to see what it has for 20 gauge loads.

Does any one have there new manual and how many 20 gauge loads are in there and what are the fps and psi for 7/8 oz and 1oz loads? i do not need the powder/primers just wondering if manual would be wurth it.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby Toasty » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:39 pm

Nice patterns. I've seen first hand what those Kent 20ga #2 shells will do to 40 yard mallards. Shooting hevi out of a 20ga makes a better load, and if I could afford it, I would shoot hevi all of the time, but most of us have a limited budget. I shoot 3 steel 20ga shells for every hevi shot shell I shoot. Tungsten shot only gets used in certain situations where steel just won't do the job. In general the 20ga is underrated for waterfowl. Here is steel reload I shot most of last year. These are leftover shells that had the shot pulled that I reloaded with steel. From the garbage to my bag at 10 cents a shell. Patterns aren't as good as I can do with tungsten, but it did the job on 40 yard and under birds. It is nice to spend a total of $2 on shells for several hunts last year.

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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby goosepit2007 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:48 pm

hamernhonkers wrote:

Its quite the challenge to circle and count when you have a 24 month old helping you :help: :lol3: :lol3: :lol3:


sounds like you have a future outdoorsman helping ya!!!! :yes: :clapping:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby Toasty » Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:48 pm

goosepit2007 wrote:one thing with 20 gauges they are easy to bring up (light weight) and shoulder perty easy.


Excellent point. The biggest advantage a 20ga will give over a 12ga. You can shoot 2nd and 3rd shots faster out of 20ga than a 12ga. In fact I'll usually have shot the 3rd shot when my buddies are taking their 2nd shots. (That's not always a good thing)

As far as data for the 20ga, the newest data sheets for the VP91 and VP92 from BPI is some good steel data out there and the wads are cheap. VP92 has 400g steel loads at 1470 fps.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:17 am

yip fine looking patterns. I take it your 30" circle is smaller than the circular line you have drawn????
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:19 am

lyman 5th edition has loads but none faster than 1280fps for .20ga.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby dysco » Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:31 am

Precision Steel Shot Reloading Manual has 3/4oz loads up to 1389FPS. Pretty fun with #5 for closer shooting. My first triple of last year was with that load on teal and a skeet choke. :lol3: Took more than a few big ducks with it, too.

I got away from the 20 for ducks last year in a bad slump. Moved to my much heavier and slower-handling 12ga with 1oz loads and the slump was cured. Voodoo... Of course my last goose of the season fell to the 20ga with Kent #2s. I had good luck with the Estate 1oz #3s for a while but only picked up 2 boxes. It's a big PITA to load 3" rounds for me and I'd rather shoot 12 than buy a bunch of ammo when I can load it for the same results.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby z51 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:21 am

Very helpful to see some examples of 20 gauge patterns. I bought a 20 gas auto this summer. I had already found out I needed to go to a IM choke to make it throw acceptable 40 yard patterns.
Now I can see how much I will be losing compared to my 12 gauge guns.
Comparing your 7/8 #2 load with 99/109 to my 3" 12 with 1 1/4 #2 Speed Shok at 143/156 out of my Carlson Mid Range at 40 yards is interesting.
The pattern percentages are almost identical, however, hits in the 30" circle are 44 percent greater with the 12 gauge.
In practical terms both loads will kill a mallard graveyard dead at 40 yards. The 12 gauge is clearly superior, but for decoying ducks isn't really needed. In fact, the pattern is so dense that my Close Range choke would be more appropriate in the 12 gauge.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby grnhd » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:39 am

Nice patterns hammernhonkers and thanks for sharing them.
I patterned my sons Tristar youth 20 yesterday with a Carlsons full and hand load 3" 7/8 1500 3's. It put 103 in the circle. Better than the factory M but I was hoping it would do better than that. Granted it was only 1 shot, we'll try to do more patterning this afternoon so hopefully that was on the low side.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:13 am

grnhd wrote:Nice patterns hammernhonkers and thanks for sharing them.
I patterned my sons Tristar youth 20 yesterday with a Carlsons full and hand load 3" 7/8 1500 3's. It put 103 in the circle. Better than the factory M but I was hoping it would do better than that. Granted it was only 1 shot, we'll try to do more patterning this afternoon so hopefully that was on the low side.


I don't know for sure what it is about Carlson's IM tubes but my 11-87, my condor, my redhead, and now sx3 seem to prefer them with loads of 3 shot both from federal and kent. You might want to give it a try if the full don't work out with your reload's.

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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby Art Vandelay » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:04 pm

Toasty,
Here is steel reload I shot most of last year. These are leftover shells that had the shot pulled that I reloaded with steel

I am not clear what you did here. Where they lead type shells? I need some 10 cent shells. :biggrin:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby goosepit2007 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:59 pm

found vp 92 loads for steel shot

Powder Gr. Wad OS Card Oz. Shot PSI FPS Other Crimp Notes
90604 956 20 3.00 Fiocchi Fio-616 SR-4756 20.0 NC20 + VP92 400gr Steel #7 9500 1150 Mica dust wad Fold
90605 963 20 3.00 Fiocchi Fio-616 SR-4756 22.0 VP92 OS20 400gr Steel #4 10600 1260 Mica dust wad Fold
90605 964 20 3.00 Fiocchi Fio-616 SR-4756 23.6 VP92 OS20 400gr Steel #4 11700 1370 Mica dust wad Fold
90604 957 20 3.00 Fiocchi Fio-616 Steel 22.0 VP92 OS20 400gr Steel #7 11000 1340 Mica dust wad Fold
90608 965 20 3.00 Fiocchi CCI209M Steel 24.5 VP92 OS20 400gr Steel #2 11800 1470 Mica dust wad Fold
90605 962 20 3.00 Fiocchi Fio-616 Steel 25.5 VP92 400gr Steel #2 11700 1460 Mica dust wad Fold

vp91
ID # Ref.# Ga Lgth. Hull Primer Powder Gr. Wad OS Card Oz. Shot Buffer PSI FPS Other Crimp
91008 1438 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 800-X 15.5 VP91 365gr Steel #7 11000 1180 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1438T 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 800-X 15.7 VP91 365gr Steel #7 11300 1200 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1441T 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 Blue Dot 22.0 VP91 365gr Steel #7 10700 1200 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1442B 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 Blue Dot 23.0 VP91 365gr Steel #7 11100 1245 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1442 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 Blue Dot 24.0 VP91 365gr Steel #7 11500 1300 Mica dust wad Fold
90604 951 20 2.75 Fiocchi Fio-616 SR-4756 23.0 VP91 365gr Steel #7 11300 1380 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1439 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 SR-7625 16.5 VP91 365gr Steel #7 10900 1190 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1440T 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 SR-7625 16.7 VP91 365gr Steel #7 11100 1200 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1440 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 SR-7625 17.0 VP91 365gr Steel #7 11600 1225 Mica dust wad Fold
90923 1351 20 2.75 Fiocchi Fio-616 SR-7625 17.0 VP91 OS20 365gr Steel #7 11600 1215 Mica dust wad Fold
90604 949 20 2.75 Fiocchi Fio-616 Steel 21.0 VP91 OS20 365gr Steel #7 9600 1325 Mica dust wad Fold
90604 950B 20 2.75 Fiocchi Fio-616 Steel 21.5 VP91 365gr Steel #7 9800 1340 Mica dust wad Fold
90604 950 20 2.75 Fiocchi Fio-616 Steel 22.0 VP91 365gr Steel #7 10000 1355 Mica dust wad Fold
91008 1437 20 2.75 Federal TopGun CH-209 Universal Clays 14.5 VP91 365gr Steel #7 10400 1160 Mica dust wad Fold

rsi #116 and 117 400 grain 1350fps ,9900 and 9500 fed and fio 3" hulls in that order
rsi 118 and 119 382.8 grain,1430 fps 10200 and 9900 psi(fed and fioch 3inch hulls)
120 and 121 328.1, 1475-1490 fps, 9100 and 9000 psi (3" fed and fiochi)

looks like there is little room for improvment being that 12000 psi is the saami spec for 20 gauge for rsi data with steel powder..
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby rainingmallards » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:37 pm

I really wanna get a new 20 gauge...any recommendations on brand from anyone?
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:01 pm

rainingmallards wrote:I really wanna get a new 20 gauge...any recommendations on brand from anyone?



I can tell you that as far as the semi lines goes the , sx3 and 11-87 have proven to be winners, the a400 has had a few cycling issues but those seem to be resolving themselves with no feed issues the last 4 boxes. O/U - Ruger Redlable, CZ Redhead, Browning Citori, and 2 stogers, have all been issue free until this last season when the stoger combo I gave my bro in law broke a forearm screw. Good old pump 870 youth has been functioning flawless for many kids the last 6 years.

Of those my current favorite is the sx3 :thumbsup:

I have to warn you though shotguns for me are kind of a flavor of the month thing but when they are in season they get put through the paces :wink: :lol3:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:03 pm

Oh ya raining, I have got to warn you though all 20's hate hevi metal :fingerpt: :tongue: :lol3:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby cootlover » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:47 pm

Hammer how many times do I have to tell a 20 gauge wont kill a duck :yes: .I just love when you show killer patterns and people say 12 are so much better you can only kill a duck so much dead is dead :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby shoveler_shooter » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:54 pm

Thanks for sharing.
Those are a little better than I thought they would be...pretty impressive actually. Looks like I'll probably get a Carlson IM for mine also.
UmatillaJeff wrote:This load would drop ducks and geese like thors hammer in my hands, I would bet the equity in my house on it.
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:56 pm

cootlover wrote:Hammer how many times do I have to tell a 20 gauge wont kill a duck :yes: .I just love when you show killer patterns and people say 12 are so much better you can only kill a duck so much dead is dead :thumbsup:



I don't actually kill ducks with my 20 they are to hard to hit.............I just kill paper :tongue:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:00 pm

z51 wrote:Very helpful to see some examples of 20 gauge patterns. I bought a 20 gas auto this summer. I had already found out I needed to go to a IM choke to make it throw acceptable 40 yard patterns.
Now I can see how much I will be losing compared to my 12 gauge guns.
Comparing your 7/8 #2 load with 99/109 to my 3" 12 with 1 1/4 #2 Speed Shok at 143/156 out of my Carlson Mid Range at 40 yards is interesting.
The pattern percentages are almost identical, however, hits in the 30" circle are 44 percent greater with the 12 gauge.
In practical terms both loads will kill a mallard graveyard dead at 40 yards. The 12 gauge is clearly superior, but for decoying ducks isn't really needed. In fact, the pattern is so dense that my Close Range choke would be more appropriate in the 12 gauge.


Can't and won't argue that as it is very well put :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby cootlover » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:01 pm

Hammer cant wait for Monday taking my little girl on her first hunt hopefully she can hit some doves :thumbsup:
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Re: 20 ga patterns

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:03 pm

cootlover wrote:Hammer cant wait for Monday taking my little girl on her first hunt hopefully she can hit some doves :thumbsup:


Good luck to her and you and have a great time man! Be sure to post up in the Utah forum on how she dose :thumbsup:
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