Wad Conversion/compatability

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Wad Conversion/compatability

Postby countrygent36 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:34 pm

OK, so I'm dumb, or a little too lazy. I can't seem to find an extensive chart for wads that describes which ones are which from which company, and which ones will suffice for the other. I have a small shart in a hodgdon book, but don't seem to be finding anythign else. :help:
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Postby Sagebrush » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:26 pm

1st off............

Wads for what ??


Lead, bismuth,steel, hevi-shot ??
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Postby countrygent36 » Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:51 pm

Sagebrush wrote:1st off............

Wads for what ??


Lead, bismuth,steel, hevi-shot ??


Exactly my point Sage, lol, lets just start with lead for the moment. I have the Hodgdon Wad comparison chart but it's not very encompassing to very many brands/types of wadding. If a guy is given a lot of reloading supplies that he has never used before, how can he tell what he has and what to use it for?

Here's a scenerio I put in another forum for discussion.

countrygent36 wrote:I have a scenerio for this one.

I have claybuster waa12f1/sl wads, which are for 1 to 1 1/8oz loads.

If i have a receipe that calls for the waa12f1, which is no longer being made(assumed since winchester doesn't list any longer), I can substitute for the waa12sl, their new version. If I am only loading a 1 1/8oz load, why can I not use the waa12? It is designed for 1 to 1 5/8oz loads?

The only difference is the shot cup depth. Which I can either, adjust the crimp, or, add an overshot pad.

Comments, suggestions please?


Let's see where it goes on here.
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Postby thaner » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:02 am

I generally swap the clone wads for the originals, but I don't go any further than that. If I can't find a listed load then I don't shoot it. Often the load combo you have will not perform in velocity, safe pressure, capacity, good powder burn or something and that is why you can't find a load for it. Collect up all the powder company manuals and get the Lyman’s shot shell handbook. If you can’t find the load listed in one of those locations it is probably not something you want to load anyway. You can also go to shotgun world and get some good info there on switching some primers, and you can often find someone with some older loading data that is no longer published for a load you may be considering. I wouldn't put extra material in a wad like spacer or cards if the load is not listed. There are some that will if the pressure is very low, but you’re asking for problems if you start messing around with a non-listed load combination. In steel I would say never substitute anything.
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Postby countrygent36 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:22 am

Why must we always beat a dead horse? Wouldn't it be nice to know exactly where the line is between life and death, or do we have to always take anothers word for it? Living safe is ok, for some, but living smart is so much better. IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT!!
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Postby pennsyltucky » Mon Nov 27, 2006 5:03 pm

knowing where the line is would be great. till u loaded up some shells today and went to shoot them tomorrow when the temp is 25 deg higher. not so smart anymore.

the reason there is such a large gray area in pressures is because the barrel doesnt have an exact blowing point. its the constant pounding u give it with hot loads that make it fail. the steel fatigues just like any other metal.

dont push ur luck. you sound fairly new to this game. just have patience, ull know everything soon enuf.... :cool:
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Postby countrygent36 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:53 pm

pennsyltucky wrote:knowing where the line is would be great. till u loaded up some shells today and went to shoot them tomorrow when the temp is 25 deg higher. not so smart anymore.

the reason there is such a large gray area in pressures is because the barrel doesnt have an exact blowing point. its the constant pounding u give it with hot loads that make it fail. the steel fatigues just like any other metal.

dont push ur luck. you sound fairly new to this game. just have patience, ull know everything soon enuf.... :cool:


OK, I'll stick to my cork gun. POP!!! POP!!! :toofunny:
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Postby Sagebrush » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:07 am

Reloading is done by type of:

Hulls , primers, powders and wads.

You can shuffle the deck to come up with different loads.

However they will all have different velosities and pressures.


Most loaders find out that the "hot loads" are not worth all the
powder and wear & tear on equipment.

However, if you want to shoot 11,000 psi loads......go for it.


The best all around lead load is 1 1/8oz of 7 1/2's @ 1145fps :thumbsup:
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Postby countrygent36 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:39 am

Sagebrush wrote:Reloading is done by type of:

Hulls , primers, powders and wads.

You can shuffle the deck to come up with different loads.

However they will all have different velosities and pressures.


Most loaders find out that the "hot loads" are not worth all the
powder and wear & tear on equipment.

However, if you want to shoot 11,000 psi loads......go for it.


The best all around lead load is 1 1/8oz of 7 1/2's @ 1145fps :thumbsup:


Morning Sage,

I whole heartedly agree. I'm just surprised that there isn't a chart saying what the pressure change "might" be given a different wad. I'm not looking for hot loads, just compatability between wads. If I run out of something, what happens/do I need to do, if I need to use a different component.

My specific scenerio, isn't really changing much. The only difference is the shot cup size. I haven't weighed the two yet, but that could deffinitely change the pressures.

I'll finish later, working this morning. Howdy from Corsicana, TX.
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Postby thaner » Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:45 pm

As far a lead goes get all the powder Co. books and study them. If you get a Lyman Shot Shell Manual it will explain and list the different wad types and hull types; at least my old version does. You have basically your straight wall hulls and wads and tapered hulls and wads. Then you have the different volume of hulls based on base thickness. If you study all the tables you can see what different wads do with different hulls, powders and shot charges and which are made to work with different hull shapes and volumes. Then you can kind of see what is safe with slight variations.

The reason there is not chart is because every different combo has a different pressure and every different wad has a different volume and different crush properties. This all makes it impossible to say swap this wad with that one because depending on the two wads the pressure and velocity will change, which requires a change in primer or powder volume. What may be safe to swap in one load combination of hull, powder and primer may not be in another load combo. In addition some loads will work with multiple wads, but only with a powder in a certain volume range. It may be safe, but it may be dished or it may push open the crimp after is sets for a while; it could even have very pour burning and large swings in velocity. The reality it that there are thousands of listed loads published that cover a very wide range of uses and component combination. Some are even less than ideal and if you look very hard you can find just about any reasonable combination that exists.

Now for steel, don’t vary from the published load data! I have been loading steel a little while and I can see a few areas here and there where I know I can vary because several loads work around limited variations of a load combination and I know I can work in the middle ground based on known load performance, but other than that you can get in trouble messing with steel loads particularly when you start swapping wads. They can change pressure real fast.
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Postby countrygent36 » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:18 pm

thaner wrote:As far a lead goes get all the powder Co. books and study them. If you get a Lyman Shot Shell Manual it will explain and list the different wad types and hull types; at least my old version does. You have basically your straight wall hulls and wads and tapered hulls and wads. Then you have the different volume of hulls based on base thickness. If you study all the tables you can see what different wads do with different hulls, powders and shot charges and which are made to work with different hull shapes and volumes. Then you can kind of see what is safe with slight variations.


Thank you,
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Postby Sagebrush » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:01 pm

When it comes to loading lead, for trap loads at 1200fps or less,
you can almost swap any primer and wad with out any real danger.

Notice I did not say to swap hulls !!

A 10,000 psi in lead is a very safe load for a shotgun in good shape.


Loading Steel is a whole new ball game, since it will not flatten with
pliers like lead pellets will !!

The extra tuff wads and hard steel has NO forgivness at all, to the
chamber pressures and any choke "pressure" to all loads.

This is why you must follow the listed loads.........

Switching wads, adding buffer etc. can and will increase psi's by as
much as 2,000 to 3,500 psi or more !!

If the load you mess with, is at 10,900 psi already..........I hope you
made out a will :thumbsup:

Steel loads are the BEST that the company can ofer reloaders.

They are the best velosity, lowesy PSI and the SAFEST loads tested.

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Postby countrygent36 » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:14 pm

thaner wrote:As far a lead goes get all the powder Co. books and study them. If you get a Lyman Shot Shell Manual it will explain and list the different wad types and hull types; at least my old version does. You have basically your straight wall hulls and wads and tapered hulls and wads. Then you have the different volume of hulls based on base thickness. If you study all the tables you can see what different wads do with different hulls, powders and shot charges and which are made to work with different hull shapes and volumes. Then you can kind of see what is safe with slight variations.

The reason there is not chart is because every different combo has a different pressure and every different wad has a different volume and different crush properties. This all makes it impossible to say swap this wad with that one because depending on the two wads the pressure and velocity will change, which requires a change in primer or powder volume. What may be safe to swap in one load combination of hull, powder and primer may not be in another load combo. In addition some loads will work with multiple wads, but only with a powder in a certain volume range. It may be safe, but it may be dished or it may push open the crimp after is sets for a while; it could even have very pour burning and large swings in velocity. The reality it that there are thousands of listed loads published that cover a very wide range of uses and component combination. Some are even less than ideal and if you look very hard you can find just about any reasonable combination that exists.

Now for steel, don’t vary from the published load data! I have been loading steel a little while and I can see a few areas here and there where I know I can vary because several loads work around limited variations of a load combination and I know I can work in the middle ground based on known load performance, but other than that you can get in trouble messing with steel loads particularly when you start swapping wads. They can change pressure real fast.


Finally got my hands on a Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook 4th Edition. Some of the data call for MEC wads. I didn't know Mec made wads or any other component. Is this a misprint? Do the MEC wads still exist? They resemble BP wads to a T, but I see no measurements for them.
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