Jon Bergren wrote: Frank Lopez wrote:
Jon Bergren wrote:Wrong, I get a very high rate of kill with the 7/8 oz B load, like 3 shells per two birds, alot of the times 3 for 3. Ned S
2 birds fro 3 shells is only 66% efficiency! Now, the question is, are you missing that third bird clean or is your marksmanship true, but your equipment lacking to the point where you are unknowingly wounding birds? Rather like looking at averages in skeet. There are lots of people that are AAA shooters, but their averages dip down to A or AA with the .410.
Look at it another way. A goose has a vital area of about 20 square inches. There are some 706 square inches in a 30 inch circle. Pure probability would dictate dividing the 706 by 20 to get the probability of a single hit. That would be about 35 pellets evenly distributed in the pattern. The problem here, and it is huge, is that shotgun patterns are NOT evenly distributed! They are Gaussian and are pretty much weighted to the center. So, in order to achieve that 90 to 95% probability of a kill (even a 35 pellet pattern has some probability of a clean kill), we need to increase the pellet population in the 30 inch pattern. This is where Roster, Burrard and others have come up with numbers varying from 60 to 70 pellets for medium to small geese. Roster's numbers for large geese (50 to 55 pellets) are for birds that have a decidedly larger target (vital) area.
My pattern distrubtion for my 7/8 oz B load is such that it puts about 68 pellets in the 30" circle. At 40 yds that's 9 pellets per 8 lb Lesser almost twice what is required. Most of my birds are shot at less than 40 yds over decoys. You can't see any further than your nose Lopez. My pattern is about as even as you can get with the goose getting the killing pellets. Think what a 30 yd pattern is doing to the bird, they look like they have been riddled. I do not care what Roster is saying now, 5 pellets will bring the goose to the ground. Roster use to say that 5 pellets would kill a goose. His mallard data is the same at 4 pellets. He had to change his pellets for geese as the CONSEP data would have been the same he had preached before CONSEP. It really was a waste of money as most hunters are shooting 1550 fps shells and up. Also Lopez you do not shoot or ever have killed geese with 7/8 oz of B's but yet you think you're an authority, the fact is you're not. I kill geese dead with this load at 50 yds. Many mornings I got 3 geese the first round. Ned S
Having some difficulty with reading comprehension, Ned? No one is questioning a pattern with 68 pellet strikes. What is being questioned is your insistence that a 35 pellet strike pattern is sufficient for geese. Go back and follow the thread. Do it slowly and carefully. You told The Drake, Lostknife and Mudpack that they were wrong for stating that a pellet count of 50 to 75% higher than your prescribed 35 was more suitable. The fact is that they were wrong to the extent that 50 to 75% wasn't nearly enough. It would take somewhere near a 90% increase to meat the minimums prescribed by virtually every recognized authority. Your 68 pellet pattern works because it is a 90% pattern, not because it will put 8 pellets into a goose. The fact is that it is statistically as likely to put half as many pellets into the bird as it is to put that many. Patterns, useful patterns at least, are Gaussian, they are center weighted in a fairly predictable ratio depending on the overall population of the pattern. Start analyzing your patterns by using concentric circles of 10, 20 and 30 inches and seeing the pellet distribution across those segments.
You keep telling us that most of your birds are shot at less than 40 yards over decoys. That is admirable. And, considering that your pattern contains between 68 and 70 pellets, depending on your choke, you are wise to keep your shots inside of that range. But depending on the rate of decay of your pattern, by the time you get to 50 yards or a little beyond, you will see a drop off in kills on birds that are centered in the pattern. You also loose sight of the fact that lighter loads loose pattern density before heavier loads and tend to sacrifice that pattern density in favor of velocity. This is counter productive with respect to shooting at ranges over 40 yards. Of course, you could choke the snot out of the load, but then you'd have some problems closer in. But, given your post, you seem to have noticed that, but choose to ignore the fat that it is detrimental from both accuracy and culinary aspects.
And, for the record, I really have no problem with you questioning anything I've posted, I really don't. But, be advised that you make yourself look the fool when you question published authorities and cannot substantiate your claims or position.