Choice for long range finishing load

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Choice for long range finishing load

Postby 10gaOkie » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:17 pm

What would be your choice for a payload size, pellet size and muzzle vel for a 70 yard finishing load for 10ga? Example, the shooting has stopped and you realize someone in your party has crippled a goose and its already swimming away at 70 yards. Whats your load choice to stop it and you dont have a dog? (Regular Steel Shot Only)

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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:31 pm

1 oz TSS # 9 from a 12,20 or 28 ga, 1350 fps MV and IC choke. Sorry Chris I don't have any 10 ga TSS loadings, haven't been there yet.
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby UmatillaJeff » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:39 pm

No dog.... You are kidding me right? Why on earth would you not have a dog?Tthe best long range duck load IS a dog. Jeff
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby UmatillaJeff » Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:46 pm

It's 70 yards and swimming. other then lost knifes 90 dollar a shot shells, what the hell is going to kill a goose on the water at 70 yards besides BBB or T's? A lucky shot in the head with a steel BB maybe? The birds is to far to kill with anything other then GREAT BIG SHOT.... Or dumb luck.

Seriously though... Why would you not have a dog? It makes everything easier and more effective.

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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby 10gaOkie » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:01 pm

Jeff
I figured you would say a ounce and a half of TTs. I have had three labs and am done. My son is my main hunting pardner, he has a lab.

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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby baltz526 » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:38 pm

I have chased Divers all over the lake, trying to put a magic BBB into their heads. 12 shells one day at a diver. Never did catch up to it. That evening I loaded a box of #3 steel swatter loads. It has 210 pellets compared to 85BBB or 144 #1
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby goose_gunner » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:54 pm

15/8oz of steel 7s the only way your killing a goose on the water at that range is a head or neck shot its just an idea I will load some and pattern them at 70 or 80yds and see what they can do
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby grnhd » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:58 pm

UmatillaJeff wrote:It's 70 yards and swimming. other then lost knifes 90 dollar a shot shells, what the hell is going to kill a goose on the water at 70 yards besides BBB or T's? A lucky shot in the head with a steel BB maybe? The birds is to far to kill with anything other then GREAT BIG SHOT.... Or dumb luck.

Seriously though... Why would you not have a dog? It makes everything easier and more effective.

Jeff


My first thought is you don't need that big of a pellet at 70 yards to break the head or neck of a goose,because at 70 yards on the water that's about all you'd be shooting at so you'd want pattern density. But I tried a 1 1/4 load of 4's last year as a swatter load for ducks and while it worked really well at close rang those little pellets really bloomed out at longer ranges and were worthless. Jeff might be right just to have something that would hold a decent pattern.
I'd guess and say 1 3/4 oz load of 2's would work on the head/neck but I'd pattern it to see how if the pattern density was there. They might bloom out bad at that range to.
I'm with you about a dog but its because I just enjoy watching them work,not just for retrieving cripples. If a bird hits the water with its head up,we shoot it till its dead and then send the dog,especially when hunting big,open water. I hunt with kids a lot and kids like to shoot so I let them burn 'em up on the water. I've seen too many birds that looked like an easy dog retrieve turn into a long boat retrieve.
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby UmatillaJeff » Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:25 pm

You can shoot me with steel 7's at 70 yards. I will stand there and let you do it. Jeff
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby Sagebrush » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:14 pm

Get in the boat !!
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby UmatillaJeff » Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:30 pm

Shooting a cripple at 70 yards on the water with ANY load sounds like a trap shoot! I can assure you I have seen more then a box of shells fired at a 70 yard goose with the result being nothing.

Then we start lining up with the big pellets and sooner or later we get it done but it is seldom pretty! 50 yards with what amounts to a rifle sighted shotgun on a turkey is one thing...

Shooting 70 yards with what amounts to a bead and shooting off hand is another. Then you add bitter cold temperature as well as wind and waves and that is why it sounds like a trap shoot is being conducted out of the duck blind!

Hear is why the big pellets are MORE effective.. Number 1- If you do hit the bird in the body, they still have the energy to kill the goose at 70 yards on the water by body killing them. This is an excellent option when crap house luck is all you have left. Those big pellets will f&%$ them up on the water.

Steel 7's? This just shows who has been there and who lives on fantasy island. Those pellets would be lucky to be going 300 FPS by the time they got to 70 yards.

In short... Nothing works without some luck and launching what usually amounts to a whole bunch of shells.

The big pellets are he best option short of lost Knifes depleted uranium. Jeff
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby BT Justice » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:42 am

Not to go around your post, but for us there are no 70 yard on the water finishing loads, in the air, wounded and sailing off.. I have taken a few snow geese at that range with RSI 99 and BBB steel (.720 Terror) but I WILL NOT SHOOT at that range on fresh birds that have not been wounded.
On the water if we're hunting low flooded rice/corn it's get off your butt, if there's no dog, get closer then finish the bird. If it's lake, river or deeper water take the boat and hope the bird doesn't submarine on you before your near enough for a good clean shot. For me 70 yards is just to iffy even with a bird wounded in the water or Super Duper shot..yes Lost that one was for you... :lol3:
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:19 am

UmatillaJeff wrote:You can shoot me with steel 7's at 70 yards. I will stand there and let you do it. Jeff


Those TSS #9 are really going to hurt!!!!!!!!!!!
Lost

Sorry Chris you should use #7 TSS LOL. It's the pattern density you will need with such a small target.
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby Bug Doc » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:34 am

A little off topic here, but still a good story. During development of TSS, I was on a snow goose hunt with Kyle (the creator of TSS). A winged bird hit the water about 100 yards away. The guide asked Kyle if he thought he could swat that bird. Kyle quickly screwed in a turkey choke, took dead aim, and missed several feet short and to the side. The pattern of #5 TSS was still coherent (maybe 4' across), so he adjusted for windage & drop and fired again. This time the pattern just fringed the tail of the bird, making it swim a little faster. The third shot was the charm, covering up the bird. At first it didn't look like it was hit, but then it started to swoon and died fairly quickly. I pulled out my rangerfinder and lasered the shot at 131 yards!

Back on topic, it would be very difficult to swat a goose on the water with steel at 70 yards. Notice Lost's table. Even #4 steel only has 1/2" of penetration at that distance (can't imagine how much #7 steel would have :eek: ). I'm not sure how much penetration one needs to kill with a head shot, but I'm guessing it's somewhat more than #7 steel can provide. On the other hand, going for body hits is also problematic. First, the angle is very bad. Shooting at such an oblique angle means you need to penetrate a greater amount wing feathers, skin, fat, muscle, and in a lot of cases the back bone and/or ribs to get to the vitals (kinda like shooting through sloping armor on a tank - the slope increases the effective thickness of the armor). With a great deal of the body under water, you have a much smaller & tougher target to deal with.

Perhaps a slow, high-payload shell of #1 or possibly #2 fired through a turkey choke might have the pattern density necessary to ensure a head hit at that range, but I wouldn't count on it without some testing. It might be fun to mess with, but a bit of a headache to try to utilize in the field.
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:05 am

I really don't think the pattern density would be sufficient for that range. But then baltz if you had used TSS in the first place you wouldn't have fired 12 shots for this bird that you didn't get so the cost of 1 TSS vs 12 of whatever, kind of evens the score especially since you would have ended up with the bird ~ LOL.
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby bbs383ci » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:14 am

.22lr :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:25 pm

These tables are screen captures from KPY software. Any serious duck hunter / re-loader should have this program. It is available in the US from BPI. Highly recommended, even Ned has it now.
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby jehler » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:01 pm

I've killed plenty of birds in pre flight position (on the water) at 70-80 yards with 3's
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby UmatillaJeff » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:29 pm

Those must be magic 3's you are using that only work on Geese in Michigan. Jeff
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby TexasGeese » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:03 pm

2oz's of TSS #6's out of the 10
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby jehler » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:19 pm

UmatillaJeff wrote:Those must be magic 3's you are using that only work on Geese in Michigan. Jeff

Never a goose I don't think, but plenty of scoter, plenty tough a Canada
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:04 pm

TexasGeese wrote:2oz's of TSS #6's out of the 10


Wow, now I would love to have that recipe!
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby TexasGeese » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:07 pm

lostknife4 wrote:
TexasGeese wrote:2oz's of TSS #6's out of the 10


Wow, now I would love to have that recipe!
Lost


I'm going to pattern it, along with a hevishot duplex here in the next month. I will post results.
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:08 pm

TexasGeese wrote:
lostknife4 wrote:
TexasGeese wrote:2oz's of TSS #6's out of the 10


Wow, now I would love to have that recipe!
Lost


I'm going to pattern it, along with a hevishot duplex here in the next month. I will post results.


Thanks,
Lost
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Re: Choice for long range finishing load

Postby goose_gunner » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:28 pm

UmatillaJeff wrote:Shooting a cripple at 70 yards on the water with ANY load sounds like a trap shoot! I can assure you I have seen more then a box of shells fired at a 70 yard goose with the result being nothing.

Then we start lining up with the big pellets and sooner or later we get it done but it is seldom pretty! 50 yards with what amounts to a rifle sighted shotgun on a turkey is one thing...

Shooting 70 yards with what amounts to a bead and shooting off hand is another. Then you add bitter cold temperature as well as wind and waves and that is why it sounds like a trap shoot is being conducted out of the duck blind!

Hear is why the big pellets are MORE effective.. Number 1- If you do hit the bird in the body, they still have the energy to kill the goose at 70 yards on the water by body killing them. This is an excellent option when crap house luck is all you have left. Those big pellets will f&%$ them up on the water.

Steel 7's? This just shows who has been there and who lives on fantasy island. Those pellets would be lucky to be going 300 FPS by the time they got to 70 yards.

In short... Nothing works without some luck and launching what usually amounts to a whole bunch of shells.

The big pellets are he best option short of lost Knifes depleted uranium. Jeff
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