Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

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Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby kenner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:45 pm

Anyone have a 1400+ load for 1-1/8oz steel, using Steel powder in a 2-3/4" Fed paper-base/Top Gun, or Cheddite hull?

And, do Rem Gun Clubs/STS/Nitros load the same as the 2 3/4-in. Rem Nitro Mag hull that Alliant Powder refers to on their reloading data site?

Thanks! Ken
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:26 pm

The Rem Nitro Mag or Nitro Steel are a straight wall hull with a yellow base wad. They do not load the same as the STS. However, there is an Rem Express hull that has the high brass and green plastic tube that is a unibody type tapered hull that loads the same as the STS. So which hull do you have that you are wanting to load?

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:55 pm

kenner wrote:Anyone have a 1400+ load for 1-1/8oz steel, using Steel powder in a 2-3/4" Fed paper-base/Top Gun, or Cheddite hull?



Thanks! Ken


10gaOakies HG load is a Ched load that fits your bill.
I'm betting if you put 32 or 33 grains of steel powder in a Fed PBW hull, fed209a, and a sam wad you'll be fine. Other wads could build more pressure, I'm betting someone on here has played with 1 1/8th loads in Fed PBW hulls and will ring in.
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby kenner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:03 pm

I thought the Fed PBW/Top Gun had less volume than Chris's Cheddite HG load...??? You don't think there'd be a pressure issue?
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:30 pm

Any of the paper base wad hulls have less volume than the ched hull. The first problem you run into when trying to use these lower volume hulls is the components fitting. The HG load is a tight fit to begin with. As it is, I run my crimps a little on the shallow side for correct fit. I wish I could get a tad deeper crimps but I cant and this is with the larger volume ched hulls.
Of the hulls that I have found other than Cheds for that 1 1/8oz load are these.....Mirage, Kemen, Rio, Diana, purple Fiocchi and orange Nobel Sport. With these (other) hulls, I have to drop the pellet count four or five pellets to get a good crimp. Some of these other hulls are six point crimps too.
There are diff varieties of these (other) hulls too that have different volumes other than the large volume. The best bet for not running into these variations in volume is to stick with the Cheddite hulls.
Also if you try switching wads to a VP or RSI this will make fitting the load even harder.

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:31 pm

kenner wrote:I thought the Fed PBW/Top Gun had less volume than Chris's Cheddite HG load...??? You don't think there'd be a pressure issue?


Chris beat me to some of the info
There is less volume, so 32 or maybe 33, not sure. Paper Base Wads run lower pressures as a rule and the Sam wads run low pressure also. So that would be the combo I'd try.

Brads 1oz load
2 3/4 Federal Paper base hull - once fired
38gn steel powder
1oz (438gn) Steel shot (I used #3 shot for testing)
Fed 209A primer
RSI Sam1 Wad 2 3/4

1-1595fps - 10990psi
2-1619fps - 11100psi
3-1623fps - 11570psi
4-1612fps - 10870psi
5-1607fps - 11110psi

If you drop 5-6 grains of powder, you should be able to fit an extra 1/8th of shot in.
I might load it up for fun later tonight if I get time.
Actually, looking back through my book, I've shot same components using
34 grains and 470 grains of shot. I remember it just fit. so, I think 32 and 492 would work, depending on shot size, bigger will use more volume.
Do you have a chrono to check your loads?
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:02 pm

Something else I have learned. If building a 492gr load it going to take the largest volume hull you can get your hands on. In my case, thats the ched hull. When using a smaller volume hull such as a paper bw Fed hull, 470gr is going to be your largest payload with this hull. All of this is when using #2s as I dont load #3s or #4s now days. Using the smaller pellet would change all this giving your more room.
I am intending to build a new load based on the Rem Nitro Steel hull with yellow plastic basewad. This is a straight wall hull which offers a large volume compared to other Rem hulls. However its not as large of a volume as the Ched hull. Loading it, 470gr of #2s is as large as I can go for a payload size. No doubt I could get 492gr in there if I wanted to use #4s.

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby kenner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:11 pm

No,, no chrony yet.... no real place to go shoot.. the club's not in favor of steel shot mixing with the lead for reclamation.

I really appreciate you guys doing all this and testing new territory! My RSI #8 shows a good number of loads for Activ hulls, but apparently, there's not a substitute for these.

I could get my hands on Fiocchi and Rio hulls... I actually threw away a bunch I had collected, both the clear, low-brass and the blue, high brass.
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:17 pm

The 2 3/4 Cheddite hulls make a good sub for the 2 3/4 Activ hull.

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby kenner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:29 pm

No pressure problems that you know of?? That'd be great, 'cuz there are a number of loads in RSI!!
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:41 pm

Its all in volume. The Ched hull has just a tad more than the Active. You will loose a little pressure and a little velocity but not enough to mention. Do the salt test on both of these hulls for comparison. You will see they are almost identical in volume. They are both straight wall hulls. The Activ is a unibody and the Ched is plastic base wad which both hull is volume is equal, they will develop the same pressure. A paper base wad hull will develop less pressure if volume is equal but thats another story and doesnt pertain to these two hulls. Also, I know the Ched hull is a much stronger hull than the Activ which is a plus.

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:45 pm

10gaOkie wrote:I know the Ched hull is a much stronger hull than the Activ which is a plus.

Chris


Chris,
I disagree with you on this, I've never buckled an Activ, I have Cheds. This could be something as simple as the difference in setup in our loaders.
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:52 pm

I didnt say anything about buckling. I was speaking of the Activ hulls not holding together on firing. I remember way back when guys were having problems with max loads and the Activ hulls splitting or changing shape and causing jams. Myself, I never had a single problem, maybe I was not loading them as hot as those other guys???

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:01 pm

I've noticed you dont get as many firings from them, sometimes crimps split after 3 loadings, some of my loads might be a little hot. RSI 69 is averaging 1553fps over my chrony, I'm a little concerned about pressure but it patterns well, see how it performs on ducks. Haven't had a case split yet.
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:08 pm

Ya never know what others are basing their reports on about hulls not holding up either. The number of firings could have been the reason they were having problems with the Activ hull who knows. I still have both new and once fired Actives but I never use them anymore as there is no need when I have plenty of cheds which I feel more confortable using.

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby kenner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:11 pm

But.... using a Cheddite with a Sam wad... wouldn't I get a lotta blow-by/loss of pressure and velocity?

Here's the recipe for the green, high brass, Rem Nitro Mag Hull:
1 1/8 Steel 1,428fps Fed 209A primer Steel powder Rel Spec "SAM 1 wad 12 ga 2 3/4" 32.5gr 10,400psi

It "seems" I could put a Cheddite primer in that and lower the pressure and only lose a little fps.. and then, bump the powder by 0.5-1.0 gr??

This way, I'd have the appropriate wad for a tapered hull.

I've received my 7/8oz TUWBLS wads,, but the others are on hold.... Where's a good source of load data for Cheddites, where I don't have to use all their wraps and cards and buffers??
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:24 pm

A Cheddite (what) with a RSI wad? The only thing that will cause blowby with a given hull is shooting them in an over bore barrel. Such as a 835 mossy. Why do you want to use a Ched primer with that load? Most likely you will loose 100fps when switching primers like you said.

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby kenner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:41 pm

Cheddite primer:..... uh... 'cuz I bought a whole bunch of them.... dumb to use in this load?
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:57 pm

kenner wrote:Cheddite primer:..... uh... 'cuz I bought a whole bunch of them.... dumb to use in this load?


Kenner,
shoot Chris's HG load, it's a ched load with ched primer
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby kenner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:25 pm

I'd love to, but I'm waiting on backordered Prec. Rel. wads.....

I may just load my Fed GMs 'til the components come for Chris's HG load.
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby BBK » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:30 pm

I have one for cheddite. If I remember correctly it runs 1400. I'll look for it
Why do I shoot 3.5" for geese? Because they don't make a 4" yet!
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby BBK » Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:37 pm

2.75" Ched hull
Ched 209 primer
2.75" BPI Multi-metal wad
32 grains alliant steel
1 1/8oz of steel shot
1470fps

I have not loaded that shell, I was going to load it for early season this year but I found some old shells to shoot up instead. I would imagine it would be a great over decoys load.
Why do I shoot 3.5" for geese? Because they don't make a 4" yet!
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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 3200 man » Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:32 pm

Over decoys ? I use the HG load of 2's and it looks good out to 50 yds . The tapered hulls with 1 oz are for over decoys .
If you load 3's in them , patterns are wonderful out to 40 + yds so , I don't need anymore than 1500 fps with these . I'm
determined to load a good load of 1's in the Active and Rio hulls , possibly Buffered ???? ANY help there would be appreciated ?

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby 10gaOkie » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:14 pm

3200
I few years back, I switched from hunting marsh lakes that were surrounded by willow trees which pretty much cut the windy conditions. I changed to hunting open water so my load had to change and I could no longer shoot 4s. Season had already started and I didnt have time to work up a load with #1s so I switched to factory 3" Kents which was a 1 1/4oz load of #1s. That load worked splendid on both big ducks and geese that year. After that season was over, I was determined to develop a load that equaled that factory Kent load as I liked it so much. Upon pattern testing, the load was giving me 92 hits out of 129 pellets which was a 71% pattern at 45 yards using a really tight .685 choke. Then I developed the load to duplicate it which was also a 1 1/4oz load of #1s at 1475fps. I making the load, I used the same components as the factory load which was a Ched hull, Ched primer, B&P wad plus a rto crimp. Only I surpassed the performance of the factory Kents with this new handload which gave me 97% patterns at 45 yards with the same choke. I will share that load with you and its possible to modify it to a folded crimp load too. Ever since I got on track using the same components that Kent uses, I have been a step ahead of the game it seems in my testing. Thus, I intend to stick with using ched hulls, ched primers and B&P wads which is exactly what Kent uses.
Let me know if thats the kind of load you want using #1s. By the way, dont bother trying to use buffer with #1s, its wasted effort.

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Re: Anyone load 1-1/8 oz steel, Steel, Top Gun, or Ched?

Postby goose_gunner » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:53 pm

I have been loading the top guns hull with the rsi data and a sam 1 wad in place of the gold medal hull and have great luck they pattern the same in both and I haven't seen any high pressure signs yet
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