Fac vs. PatternMaster Results

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Fac vs. PatternMaster Results

Postby clsmithiv » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:32 am

I shoot a 28" supermagnum 870.
Yesterday I got my standard patternmaster in the mail and took it to the board.
These are the rounds I shot.
Kent Fasteel-the factory choke had a better pattern at 35 yards
12-11/8-3
Kent AP Waterfowl-even
12-11/4-2
Rem nitro
12-13/8-2-pattern master was better, but not by a lot.
Winchester
12-13/8-2- this was the best performing shell out of both @ 35yds. I cant wait to try this load in Kent, Fac=PM
Rem Nitro
12-MAX-T-holy cow, the pattern master is nasty.

Overall I think I am gonna send the pattern master back. I think it is great but I had to tighten it back and I dont shoot birds outside of 40-45 yards and the Rem Fac choke was surprisingly good and it has taken a lot of birds this years anywho. I dont know if this helps anyone just thought I would post it since I am bored as hell at work.
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Postby thaner » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:06 pm

Thanks for posting this. I think this type of info is very helpful to those considering the choke. I wish we had more load and choke patterning information on the site. I plan to do some patterning this winter after the late goose season ends.
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Postby clsmithiv » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:00 pm

I forgot to mention that All of the pattern master shots were very uniform. The factory Modified werent as uniform but had many hits in the desired duck pattern.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:49 pm

thanks for the info. when u say "better" do u mean tighter? or more evenly spread? that word better can mean a bunch of different things, and it leads to a bunch of misunderstanding i think..... also, when u say "nasty", do u mean its bad or good??

again, thanks for the post. thats the kind of stuff we need to see more of...
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Postby Erik Olsen » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:16 pm

penny you beat me to that question. cause i was gonna say for me in my nova the patternmaster was better than the mod all around. tighter and more even but i was looking for tighter. and i wanted pellets in a 20 inch circle i think it was. if shells were bunching up i moved on. one thing i have noticed from my pattern master and others is they shoot every load pretty well consistent without the clumps that can come with a factory choke. whether tighter is better or open is better i dont think we will ever be able to have an answer with proof other than "works for me" from either side.
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Postby clsmithiv » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:32 pm

Sorry about the miscommunication. Nasty to generation Y (such as myself) means really good. WHen I said that it patterned better it means that It was more even, not tighter. thanks.
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Postby liv2dukhnt » Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:42 pm

your patternmaster will shoot bigger shot better. i shoot nothing but 2's and bb's out of mine. this is why the t shot load was so good. wish i would have bought mine years ago.
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Postby Erik Olsen » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:05 pm

the other thing is because a patternmaster stops the wad instead of constricting the longer the wad the tighter the pattern is. and by looking at the oz of shot in his tests he was shooting three inch so the pattern would be close to the same as the mod. it will pattern tighter with 3.5 inch more open 3inch
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Postby JRockandCash6 » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:11 pm

Woooooooeeee you boys got me fired up. I just got my patternmaster in the mail and I am going out in the morning. No patterning just duck killin. I will pattern it later.
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Postby Jim Broadbridge » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:14 am

If in fact, the PM strips the wad and reduces the shot string so more pellots are up front and hit the intended target, it will not show up on paper. Patterns are two dimensional and the paper is one. I had my PM last year but never shot it enough to have an opinion. I used it all year this season, and I have to say I believe it hit birds harder. Some believe the PM is for long range, the constriction is between IC and Mod and patterns accordingly. It does seem to like the larger shot, I used alot of #3's this year on ducks and geese and was pleased with the results.
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Postby Thundersnow » Mon Jan 08, 2007 8:50 pm

Patternmaster is just a full choke. Maybe extra full or even modified depending on which load you shoot. It is kinda funny to me the way they market it....Shoots like a pancake......LOL. I have sent the factory emails wanting to know how they prove it. No response.

It is a just a tight choke. If you center a duck or goose with it, Yep you have a dead bird. How many ducks are missed with it? More than you care to admit.

I dare say 90% of duck hunters use too much choke for the shots they can hit. If you only shoot 40 yards or under and shoot a 12 gauge 3 1/2" gun, you do not need more than a CYLINDER bore for big ducks. If you shoot 2 3/4 you may need a little more choke. I personally would not take a 2 3/4" 12 hunting (although it can be effective).

If you shoot a 1 3/8 load or more and say you only shoot less than 40 yards, you are only handicapping yourself with a tight choke (more than 50%- 60% depending on the shot size you are shooting{2s or 3s in this example}.)
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Postby pennsyltucky » Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:10 pm

u right except the guys who use the tight chokes are doing so to compensate for using a shot size that is too large for the bird they are shooting. if you are using the right size shot, then the open chokes are the best, but when you start out with a bad choice in shot size, something has to make up for it. inside 40 yards with steel 4's a cylinder choke and a 3" load, ducks are dead, but change that to a load of 1's or even 2's. now a duck can fly between pellets at 40 yards.........

if i got a patternmaster for less than 40 bucks, id buy one. but not for steel. i like it for lead loads for late season pheasants. lead needs all the help it can get, and the PM patterns tighter than its restriction normally does. that is alot easier on the shot but it still patterns well.
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Postby Boomn4x4 » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:57 am

Jim Broadbridge wrote:Patterns are two dimensional and the paper is one.


I think you mean patterns are three dimentional, and paper is two. :toofunny:
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Postby Thundersnow » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:20 pm

pennsyltucky wrote:u right except the guys who use the tight chokes are doing so to compensate for using a shot size that is too large for the bird they are shooting. if you are using the right size shot, then the open chokes are the best, but when you start out with a bad choice in shot size, something has to make up for it. inside 40 yards with steel 4's a cylinder choke and a 3" load, ducks are dead, but change that to a load of 1's or even 2's. now a duck can fly between pellets at 40 yards.........


That is why I said "2 or 3s in this example"..... 3s and 4s would be better.

You just expanded correctly on what I was trying to get across. :thumbsup:
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Postby clsmithiv » Tue Jan 09, 2007 10:58 pm

I think that Ive come to a decison. I have sent back the patternmaster because I just dont think it will make that much of a difference at 35 yards. I would keep it but I dont hunt fields and open water that much. I am shooting #2 the rest of the season. thanks for all the advice. even though my factory modified will be alright even though its not that as even.
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Postby ducksbuck » Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:32 am

The biggest thing I noticed with the PM is that my pattern is alot fuller horizontally. My factory throws a pattern that is only so wide, but covers alot of paper up and down. This must be from what their website says about shotstring. (PM eliminates long shotstring, forcing the intire load into a smaller space) I noticed on shot at cripples on the water, the water would explode right where I aimed, where the factory would leave a string from ten feet before the duck to five feet after.
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Postby pennsyltucky » Wed Jan 10, 2007 3:14 pm

ducksbuck wrote:The biggest thing I noticed with the PM is that my pattern is alot fuller horizontally. My factory throws a pattern that is only so wide, but covers alot of paper up and down. This must be from what their website says about shotstring. (PM eliminates long shotstring, forcing the intire load into a smaller space) I noticed on shot at cripples on the water, the water would explode right where I aimed, where the factory would leave a string from ten feet before the duck to five feet after.


this is from a previous thread here:

pennsyltucky wrote:thats not shot string u see on the water. the top of the pattern reaches a farther point on the water, while the bottom hits close. this stretches out the way u see the pattern, but its not stringing. although it is the same principal as stringing in the air, and if u were at a steeper angle to the water (up higher) it would look very close to the real thing.... the patternmaster just patterns tighter than what u are comparing to, so it looks like a shorter string on the water. kinda like slicing a dowel diagonally....... it makes a long oval, but its still the same diameter.....

shot string is the way the cloud of shot sweeps across the air on a crossing shot. try to picture the way water comes out of a hose as u swing it across the yard. same principal. the first pellets of the cloud hit a certain distance before the later ones, and since u were swinging when the shot came out, the later pellets hit further ahead than the earlier ones. this stretches ur pattern out lengthwise and can hurt ur percentage on crossing shots. the patternmaster may claim that it shortens shot string, but it doesnt. that is a function of the bore/choke size. it may shorten the string compared to a tighter choke restriction (since the tighter choke extrudes the shot out more) but the difference from an i/c choke to a mod or imp/mod is almost nothing.
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Postby Citori12 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:46 pm

have no clue but my factory chokes work just fine in the field.
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Postby Sagebrush » Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:18 pm

I can't beleive the PM still work loose.

Guess the company is too lazy to make the treads

fit right , to solve the problem !!
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Postby Citori12 » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:44 pm

:salude: :withstupid: I Bet Sage can machine one correctly!!!!!!!!!...but it will cost you much more than 80dollars from china to do it!!!!!!!!!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
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