The 20 can almost do it all

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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby hamernhonkers » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:44 pm

solway gunner wrote:inevatbly as ever,this is leading to is TSS 9s being capable of knocking out a M1 Abrams tank at 100.7 yrds through a cylinder bored 3" .410


I use depleted uranium shot and my 10 for that :lol3:

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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:48 pm

solway gunner wrote:A bit like being given a look at velocity print out from that measures 1200fps and then being asked to guess what gauge shot it ..
seriously what gauge are you talking about? .410?16ga? 12ga? 8ga? 4ga etc ,how the hell could the experiment be conducted as the working payloads differ and couldnt be compared anyway!!
inevatbly as ever,this is leading to is TSS 9s being capable of knocking out a M1 Abrams tank at 100.7 yrds through a cylinder bored 3" .410


The payload can be equal in every ga with the possible exception with steel shot of the Ø.410 but say a 1 oz loading or 1-1/8 oz, I have loaded a Turkey load of 1-5/16 oz in my 28 ga. Doesn't really matter as we are talking a killing pattern density and shot pellet energy equality at range.

No Kevin this last question was to clarify my first question wherein I asked:

What is the difference between 1 oz of shot, @ 1500 fps, from a Ø.410 caliber ie 36 ga, a 28 or 20 or 16 or 12 gauge at 35 yards? Providing they have all maximized their pattern densities to be equivalent ie chokes and back boring etc.. It's the same speed at target, the same shot and the same pattern density so is there really any difference?

What I am trying to convey is that you cannot tell what gauge the pattern is from and neither can the duck! That being said then, it follows that the gauge of the gun doesn't matter nor the length of the hulls or the gun that was used, IT"S THE PATTERN DENSITY AND THE SHOT PELLET ENERGY THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE BIRDS DEMISE - NOTHING ELSE!

So if you can supply those criteria to the spot the bird is going to be when the bird and shot meet up you will be successful.
That means you have to know how to shoot and all those factors previously mentioned about the shooters abilities etc come into the equation regardless of what gauge and hull length and gun you are using..

Lost
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby blackened89 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:02 pm

835's don't have a forcing cone
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby hawglips » Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:22 pm

lostknife4 wrote:What I am trying to convey is that you cannot tell what gauge the pattern is from and neither can the duck! That being said then, it follows that the gauge of the gun doesn't matter nor the length of the hulls or the gun that was used, IT"S THE PATTERN DENSITY AND THE SHOT PELLET ENERGY THAT IS THE REASON FOR THE BIRDS DEMISE - NOTHING ELSE! .


Yep. Unless you're beating the duck over the head with the gun, it's not the gun that kills the duck, but what comes out of the gun's barrel.
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:52 pm

blackened89 wrote:835's don't have a forcing cone


And REAL pick up trucks don't have spark plugs !!!!! LOL
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby dakotashooter2 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:21 pm

I guess those that don't have the skill to shoot a 20 efficiently .............SHOULDN"T................................ :umm:
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:26 pm

dakotashooter2 wrote:I guess those that don't have the skill to shoot a 20 efficiently .............SHOULDN"T................................ :umm:


Clay bird games being the exception....
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:50 pm

lead was good no argument. I still shoot bunnies with lead...steel too.
I wont shoot ducks with lead ...but then being a warrent holder that would be hyper hypercritical!!!
I dont gaff trout either
or use a gill net in the lake
sometimes it would be nice to swat the odd bird on the water ...just for old times sake
but its a small price to pay.
the steel loads we have today are better than most guys shooting them.
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby Jon Bergren » Thu Nov 14, 2013 9:46 am

Sho;t two Canvassback yesterday with 7/8 oz of 4's which were dead when they hit the water, it was a double. This is a 20 gage load in a 12 gage. An Lightning steel load using the Estate hull. Ned S.
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby Frank Lopez » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:39 am

blackened89 wrote:835's don't have a forcing cone


Oh boy! :no: :no: :lol: :lol:

I don't care what Mossberg chooses to call it, as the Baird said, "That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet."

An 835's bore diameter is .775 inches. SAAMI specification for the chamber diameter of a 12ga is .798, the spec for the diameter of the hull is .794. In between the chamber and the bore there is a tapered transition. Call it whatever you like, but it is still a forcing cone. I made a casting of the chamber and bore of my 835 and measured it. This after a couple of discussions with the Mossberg answerbots in New Haven Ct. who claimed that the x35 series didn't have forcing cones.

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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:23 pm

I agree with you Frank and a LOT of other people do too but Ned and his buds still claim it's not a forcing cone and since Mossberg said it isn't then according to them it isn't.............. Convince a man against his will ~~ he's of the same opinion still !!!!!!!!!!

Seems to me we discussed this issue at length previously....

Lost
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby solway gunner » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:18 pm

have you had a look down the barrel of a versamax yet..?
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby solway gunner » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:21 pm

hamernhonkers wrote:
solway gunner wrote:inevatbly as ever,this is leading to is TSS 9s being capable of knocking out a M1 Abrams tank at 100.7 yrds through a cylinder bored 3" .410


I use depleted uranium shot and my 10 for that :lol3:

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:lol3:
over 2k views and 6pages of nonsense-you and your damn 20ga... :yes:
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby cootlover » Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:44 pm

Its funny you bring up his 20 ga in the right hands it all you need for duck's but geese are just tough sob still I kill my fair share with my 20ga .If you look up one of hammers post about shooting awards I think he can handle any shotgun with no problem I have your back HH :bow:
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby hamernhonkers » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:13 pm

solway gunner wrote:
hamernhonkers wrote:
solway gunner wrote:inevatbly as ever,this is leading to is TSS 9s being capable of knocking out a M1 Abrams tank at 100.7 yrds through a cylinder bored 3" .410


I use depleted uranium shot and my 10 for that :lol3:

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:lol3:
over 2k views and 6pages of nonsense-you and your damn 20ga... :yes:


:yes:


I am thinking the next thread will be on Losts favorite subject. 28's and TSS, except I will be using heavyweight 6's and tungsten poly 6's in a 3/4 oz loading :lol3:



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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby hamernhonkers » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:14 pm

cootlover wrote:Its funny you bring up his 20 ga in the right hands it all you need for duck's but geese are just tough sob still I kill my fair share with my 20ga .If you look up one of hammers post about shooting awards I think he can handle any shotgun with no problem I have your back HH :bow:



:thumbsup:

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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby rainingmallards » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:28 pm

I really want to get one of these new Franchi 20 gauge semi-autos. A 20 gauge is just
a good gauge to have.
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:45 pm

Don't discount the 28 gauge, IMHO it's every bit as good as the 20 even though I have a 20 I rarely use it. When I bought the 28 it was just something new to play with but it also was purchased from a safety standpoint. I seem to always have a bunch of loose ammo in the boat, my coat and vest pockets, in the door pockets of the truck etc. A 28 GA HULL WILL FALL THROUGH A 12 GA BARREL, not so with a 20 ga hull. Think about that, my grandsons will soon be tagging along and there could quite possible be a shell mix up as all my pumps are BPS's in 28,20,12 and 10. All the semi autos are 12 ga. Just one more accident door that is closed and locked.

For those of you, like Kevin and HH, who are waiting for the next chapter, or rant, on TSS I am working on some shot comparisons so standby I'll have it out soon.

Lost
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby Elvis Kiwi » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:22 pm

ok lost I agree with the "no .20 in a .12ga house" 110%
but please tell me why the .28ga gets high praise and the .410 scorn????
both deliver a 3/4oz payload at the same velocity :huh: :huh:
I would be very very very hard pressed to find ammo for the .28ga here...maybe 1 shop in 20 may have some.
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:04 am

It was never my intention to scorn the Ø.410, I've never owned one nor hunted with it but I have used them on the skeet field.
They and their owners always impressed me and we have the same problem with availability of 28 ga ammo but it's getting a bit more popular so I suspect at least one of the gun shops will carry some stock however I hand load everything so I'm not really affected by local retail stock. No one stocks TSS anyway !!!!!! LOL
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby 3200 man » Fri Nov 15, 2013 7:08 am

My 28 ga a Citori 525 30" has done well with bismuth 6's and 4's on Mallards out to 35 yds , just like my Mod 12 28 ga !
Hunting in So Dekota for Pheasants ,the 525 shined with nickel 6's at 1300 fps taking birds out to 40 + .
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:38 am

3200 man wrote:My 28 ga a Citori 525 30" has done well with bismuth 6's and 4's on Mallards out to 35 yds , just like my Mod 12 28 ga !
Hunting in So Dekota for Pheasants ,the 525 shined with nickel 6's at 1300 fps taking birds out to 40 + .


You could have some added insurance for a few more yards with TSS
Lost
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby lostknife4 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:57 am

I don't use Blind Side nor do I know anyone that does however I would be interested in some information about the shot if anyone has cut one apart. I would like the weight per quantity ( grains per 10 or 100 is better), the physical dimensions (length , width, height if maybe it is out of square) of the shot cube and the designation for that shot size found on the box.
Thanks in advance,
Lost
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby Jon Bergren » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:50 am

There is not a forcing cone in a 835/935. we checked it with ceratru which confirmed what Mossberg said. Ned S
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Re: The 20 can almost do it all

Postby mudpack » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:59 am

lostknife4 wrote:Don't discount the 28 gauge, IMHO it's every bit as good as the 20


So, the claim is now that the 28 is as good as the 20, and some are claiming the 20 is as good as the 12.
That leaves us with the obvious conclusion that the 28 is as good as the 12....right?

The next obvious step is that the 28 is as good at killing long-range waterfowl as the 10. :huh:

Many of us may really like the little guns, but the fact remains; a good big gun will beat a good little gun every time.
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