What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

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What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Paulinkansas » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:31 pm

2 years ago I bought a reloader and the Lightning Steel v2 manual and the 7/8 and 1 ounce wads that go with them. I had no problems following the recipes in the manual and making some good shells. I used up all the original 7/8 ounce wads last year.

Last week I ordered more of the 7/8 ounce wads. I've had problems with these newly purchased wads. The B&P TUWSBL24. At first I could not keep the shells from buckling or bulging, but fixed that. Then I couldn't get a crimp, fixed that. Now the crimps come undone.

Out of curiosity and from another post on here, I measured the 7/8 wad and compared it to the only thing I had, the same wad by B&P but for the 1 ounce load.

The petals of the 1 ounce load are straight walled. They are .030" the whole depth of the shotcup.
The petals of the 7/8 ounce load are tapered. They are .030" at the top of the cup, and .090" at the bottom of the petals.

Next, I measured out 1 ounce and 7/8 ounce of #4 shot and put them in the wads. The picture pretty much explains what might be causing my problems.

In the 1 ounce load, the pellets come even to the top of the wad.
In the 7/8 ounce load, the pellets come over the top of the wad. there is 2-3 layers of pellets over the top.
In the picture, the two unfired hulls have the top of the wad placed next to the top of the hull. Basically just to hold it in place. There is no powder and the wads haven't been seated.

Both wads are of the same overall length, but the 7/8 ounce wad overflows when it's loaded with 7/8 ounce of shot. That would imply more volume with the 7/8 ounce load, which could cause my problems with crimps coming undone.

Does anyone have some older 7/8 ounce B&P wads of this type? If so, could you measure out 7/8 oz of shot and put it in the cup and let me know if it overflows or is even with the top of the wad. Also, another person mentioned that the newer wads were thicker. Could you see if your petals are tapered? A quick visual of a petal pulled out will tell you.

Does it seem reasonable that I should have trouble loading these wads satisfactorily?
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2wads.jpg
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby inthebox30lbs » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:35 pm

Like I said before I went through the same process u are going thru. It's not your reloading practices the wads have changed. There is no way 383gr. Fit in the wad no matter what hull, wad pressure etc. I'm plum out of the old wads for the newer wads I can get them to load with around 360 grains of steel 4 shot and smaller. Bigger shot makes the problem even worse. With the old wads I easily could fit 383gr of single b. I have reloaded enough shells to no adjusting the press is not going to solve your problem. Buy the one ounce wads and add filler and you will be good to go I could tell no difference in patterns. Hope this helps.
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby dukdropper » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:38 pm

inthebox30lbs wrote:Like I said before I went through the same process u are going thru. It's not your reloading practices the wads have changed. There is no way 383gr. Fit in the wad no matter what hull, wad pressure etc. I'm plum out of the old wads for the newer wads I can get them to load with around 360 grains of steel 4 shot and smaller. Bigger shot makes the problem even worse. With the old wads I easily could fit 383gr of single b. I have reloaded enough shells to no adjusting the press is not going to solve your problem. Buy the one ounce wads and add filler and you will be good to go I could tell no difference in patterns. Hope this helps.
Scott



Ah there's a pic of those wads, yes that shallow one- (the new ones you just ordered paul 7/8 oz.) looks pretty full doesn't it scott. Exactly dome shaped looking like the FGM hull he was trying to crimp shut.

Paul load a few with the 1 oz wads - if you haven't already...should be good to go
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Theduckguru » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:28 pm

Paulinkansas wrote:2 years ago I bought a reloader and the Lightning Steel v2 manual and the 7/8 and 1 ounce wads that go with them. I had no problems following the recipes in the manual and making some good shells. I used up all the original 7/8 ounce wads last year.

Last week I ordered more of the 7/8 ounce wads. I've had problems with these newly purchased wads. The B&P TUWSBL24. At first I could not keep the shells from buckling or bulging, but fixed that. Then I couldn't get a crimp, fixed that. Now the crimps come undone.

Out of curiosity and from another post on here, I measured the 7/8 wad and compared it to the only thing I had, the same wad by B&P but for the 1 ounce load.

The petals of the 1 ounce load are straight walled. They are .030" the whole depth of the shotcup.
The petals of the 7/8 ounce load are tapered. They are .030" at the top of the cup, and .090" at the bottom of the petals.

Next, I measured out 1 ounce and 7/8 ounce of #4 shot and put them in the wads. The picture pretty much explains what might be causing my problems.

In the 1 ounce load, the pellets come even to the top of the wad.
In the 7/8 ounce load, the pellets come over the top of the wad. there is 2-3 layers of pellets over the top.
In the picture, the two unfired hulls have the top of the wad placed next to the top of the hull. Basically just to hold it in place. There is no powder and the wads haven't been seated.

Both wads are of the same overall length, but the 7/8 ounce wad overflows when it's loaded with 7/8 ounce of shot. That would imply more volume with the 7/8 ounce load, which could cause my problems with crimps coming undone.

Does anyone have some older 7/8 ounce B&P wads of this type? If so, could you measure out 7/8 oz of shot and put it in the cup and let me know if it overflows or is even with the top of the wad. Also, another person mentioned that the newer wads were thicker. Could you see if your petals are tapered? A quick visual of a petal pulled out will tell you.

Does it seem reasonable that I should have trouble loading these wads satisfactorily?


I figured you hadva wad issue in your first thread on this, glad you found out what was going on.
Banded Birds - Mallard / Black Ducks, 3 Jack Miners and 25 AVISE. BW Teal - 2, Wood Ducks - 1, Morning Doves - 1, Snow/Ross - 2 (both reward bands), Canada Geese - 12 (2 neck collars)
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Swamp Gas » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:09 pm

I had the same results with 7/8 oz loads as well. Never had issues before this spring when I ordered new wads. I also Load Lightning one ouncers and didn't have the issues.
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Jon Bergren » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:20 pm

You can also use the 28 shotcup and add 1/8" filler. I have done this. Ned S
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby goosepit2007 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:44 am

you can load them up with 800x powder and the full load of 7/8 oz fits great, without compressing the wad/shot column. you can achieve 1500-1580 fps safely....those wads work great doing this and that is plenty of speed the combo throws good patterns at that speed too, plus alot less powder which = cheaper steel loads. have loaded shot sizes up to size b with great results in the field be it ducks-bi geese....for over decoys that is plenty of speed.. and you can get by with winchester/ched/cci209 primers even way below zero temps without having chance of bloopers/dirty powder residue from not hot enough primer when temps drop. like what happens with kents for those that hunt when it gets to extreme side for weather.


just a thought for those that want to get full 7/8 of steel shot using the band p 7/8 wads.

if want full speed(1700 plus) and do not want the hassle of compressing wad/shot do as other suggested use 1oz wads and use fillers height depending on shot size being used in the re-loads.

good shootin
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby John Singer » Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:57 am

I now have to admit after seeing these posts. I have loaded several of the 1-oz Lightning Steel loads. I have always used the 1 1/8 oz wad with no filler.

If I load a 7/8 oz load, I use the same wad and use oatmeal as a filler.
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby goosepit2007 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:31 am

John Singer wrote:I now have to admit after seeing these posts. I have loaded several of the 1-oz Lightning Steel loads. I have always used the 1 1/8 oz wad with no filler.

If I load a 7/8 oz load, I use the same wad and use oatmeal as a filler.



i use the 7/8 oz wads for 7/8 ls2 loads, i got the wads late spring of 2013 from precision reloading. but for the 1oz,450 grain,470 grain,11/8 loads i use the 11/8 wads. i never have used the 1oz wads.

filler and larger voulume wad makes for easier loading of the steel reloads when using the bandp wads for ls2 manual.
. especially for the fast 7/8 oz loads. the best part of using the 11/8 wads is that you have wads that do it all, light - heavy payloads (11/8 of shot). less money sitting on the bench for components fillers are cheap using things that have around the house.
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Paulinkansas » Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Ended up loading the 7/8 oz shells (382 grains) with 355 grains of shot in order to get a decent crimp without buckling. That's about 13/16 oz of shot. Velocity was a bit higher than the published 7/8oz load.
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Baher20018 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:53 pm

Thanks for this thread I had the same problem today. Don't know what to do with 250 7/8 B and P wads now....
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Paulinkansas » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:39 pm

Baher20018 wrote:Thanks for this thread I had the same problem today. Don't know what to do with 250 7/8 B and P wads now....


I don't know what to do with 1000 of the same wads. What if we both called precision reloading and complained?
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby Baher20018 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:33 pm

Paulinkansas wrote:
Baher20018 wrote:Thanks for this thread I had the same problem today. Don't know what to do with 250 7/8 B and P wads now....


I don't know what to do with 1000 of the same wads. What if we both called precision reloading and complained?


I just made the purchase within the month I might just do that. The b and p 1 oz wads work great...
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Re: What's wrong with my LS loads part 2

Postby goosepit2007 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:31 pm

use an old powder like 800x ect, they load up just fine with full 7/8 oz of steel just the speeds are not above 1575 fps...


i have been using these wads that way ever since they have been avaible in usa.

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