shot weight vs. velocity

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shot weight vs. velocity

Postby quailhunter123 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:54 pm

In your opinion what matters more, putting out a high volume of shot at a low-med speed or small amount at high speed?
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby z51 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:09 am

This has been beat to death. Go 1400 fps 1 1/4 oz. This is in 3" 12 gauge.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby Frank Lopez » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:52 am

z51 wrote:This has been beat to death. Go 1400 fps 1 1/4 oz. This is in 3" 12 gauge.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby mudpack » Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:39 pm

Frank Lopez wrote:
z51 wrote:This has been beat to death. Go 1400 fps 1 1/4 oz. This is in 3" 12 gauge.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:



+ 1
(Payload trumps muzzle velocity every time.)
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby BBK » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:11 pm

Best patterning load trumps both.

Have shot ducks this year with 3" 1 1/4 1400fps, 2.75" 1 1/8 1390fps, and 3" 1 3/8 1300fps. All three have killed ducks stone dead very reliably. Its all about having a good pattern and putting it on the bird.

I used to jump around trying all different choke/load combos. Even went to 3.5" 1 9/16 loads for a while thinking I needed a big dense pattern to reliably kill. In the end, for me a tight choke sealed the deal. Tight choke and 1 1/8 #2 has proved to be more than enough to kill ducks out to as far as I feel comfortable shooting. Honestly, I cant see any reason to change from the 2.75" 1 1/8 1390fps loads.. they are killing birds just fine. And I am not hunting the flooded timber of Arkansas either, open water river hunting big corn fed mallards.
Why do I shoot 3.5" for geese? Because they don't make a 4" yet!
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby Mugzwump » Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:32 pm

quailhunter123 wrote:In your opinion what matters more, putting out a high volume of shot at a low-med speed or small amount at high speed?


If you look at this in terms of momentum, ( shot weight x velocity, kg m/s ) you can find similar effects using either scenario. Of course things get much more dynamic downrange. A small pellet at high velocity will carry equal momentum, as a large pellet of equal density travelling at a slower velocity. This can be explained in terms of kinetic energy as well.

As a hunter the effectiveness of either load would depend on pellet count and size. Personally I'll take more shot over velocity most days.

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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby 10gaOkie » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:19 am

Pattern above everything else. Like BBK, I will go with that 1 1/8oz payload of #2s at 1390fps.

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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby 3200 man » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:37 am

I try to stay within 1450 fps with all my loads , this give me the feel for forward allowance on birds at all ranges .
I do change chokes and pellet sizes for distance / size birds but , velocity stays the same . For my type of hunting
1 1/8 oz of shot or less has worked for me , if I'm on target with the center of the pattern , I can be successful out
to 50 yds and when a bird is inside of 30 with a more open choke (LM) it doesn't ruin the bird. I want enough pellets /
velocity / recoil to watch it die in the sky !
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby mudpack » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:22 pm

BBK wrote:Best patterning load trumps both.

No arguing that.
Thing is, the best patterns usually come with slower, heavier payloads. The more you decrease payload and increase MV, the thinner your patterns become. Generally speaking, of course.
Which brings us right back to "payload trumps muzzle velocity every time"...... :yes:
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby hawglips » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:27 pm

mudpack wrote: Which brings us right back to "payload trumps muzzle velocity every time"...... :yes:


Do we dare mention "density trumps payload and muzzle velocity"?
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby derbyacresbob » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:39 pm

hawglips wrote:
mudpack wrote: Which brings us right back to "payload trumps muzzle velocity every time"...... :yes:


Do we dare mention "density trumps payload and muzzle velocity"?



I double dog dare you to mention density! LOL

+1 for density!
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:45 pm

Pattern density, velocity and shot mass weight, of course you know where this is leading -> -> -> TSS !!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby z51 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:47 pm

Snore
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby MK10 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:50 pm

3200 man wrote:I try to stay within 1450 fps with all my loads , this give me the feel for forward allowance on birds at all ranges .
I do change chokes and pellet sizes for distance / size birds but , velocity stays the same . For my type of hunting
1 1/8 oz of shot or less has worked for me , if I'm on target with the center of the pattern , I can be successful out
to 50 yds and when a bird is inside of 30 with a more open choke (LM) it doesn't ruin the bird. I want enough pellets /
velocity / recoil to watch it die in the sky !


+1 :thumbsup:

At the moment, probably +80% of the birds I'm taking inside of 40-45 yards are with 1-1/8 loads at load velocities around the 1,350 - 1,400 fps mark. While I've taken plenty of birds out to 50 yards, I do prefer a 1-1/4oz load, particularly when using large duck hunting pellet sizes such as #2's.

Like you, I do switch pellet sizes and choke constrictions to suit the species and ranges I'm likely to encounter.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby lostknife4 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:13 pm

z51 wrote:Snore


Don't knock it if you haven't tried it !
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby Theduckguru » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:27 pm

quailhunter123 wrote:In your opinion what matters more, putting out a high volume of shot at a low-med speed or small amount at high speed?


IMO, anything >1375 fps is high speed, 1300-1375 is medium speed, and <1300 is low speed. I have shot very effective steel loads within each of of the 3 velocity ranges. The fastest velocity I like with >2 shot is 1400 fps. That doesn't mean that is what you have to like.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:38 am

hawglips wrote:
mudpack wrote: Which brings us right back to "payload trumps muzzle velocity every time"...... :yes:


Do we dare mention "density trumps payload and muzzle velocity"?


Yep! As the 1275FPS Remington HD in 2 3/4", 1 1/4 oz. of #6's were in the Super 90 w/PM tube that took a double and triple on canadas and a double on mallards this AM.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby z51 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:58 am

Several doubles on gadwalls and a triple on mallards this year using plain old Remington Sportsman at 1400 fps #2 Imp Mod choke mostly. Paid $8.95 a box. Not a lot of ducks yet but they have to be on the way.
Personally 79 good ducks in 19 hunting days so far. Call, shoot, call shoot !! :beer:

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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby mudpack » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:56 am

hawglips wrote:
mudpack wrote: Which brings us right back to "payload trumps muzzle velocity every time"...... :yes:

Do we dare mention "density trumps payload and muzzle velocity"?


IF you mean "pattern density", then I can't argue. If you mean shot density, then I certainly can.

If you miss/cripple a duck with your shooting, would using HD shot have meant you would have HIT / KILLED it?
Only if using HD shot would have meant hitting the bird with higher pattern density.....

I.e. All else being equal, pattern density usually results from more payload.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby radfordc » Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:16 am

Seems to me you need only two conditions: pattern density and penetration. Enough pellets in the pattern to get hits in vitals and enough pellet penetration to get into the vitals. Doesn't much matter how large the pellet is or how fast the pellet is going as long as it has enough kinetic energy to reach the vital area.

The problem with steel pellets is that they shed velocity at different rates depending on the initial muzzle velocity…a faster muzzle velocity loses speed at a higher rate than a lower muzzle velocity…due to the way air drag acts on a round moving object. This means that slower loads and faster loads tend to come together at longer ranges.

These factors tend to favor heavier pellets for downrange performance. You want to shoot the largest pellets that provide enough hits in the pattern and that have enough velocity to cause penetration. I agree that 1 1/4 oz of #2 or 3 shot at 1400 works very well for most conditions.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby Theduckguru » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:07 am

Yuchi1 wrote:
hawglips wrote:
mudpack wrote: Which brings us right back to "payload trumps muzzle velocity every time"...... :yes:


Do we dare mention "density trumps payload and muzzle velocity"?


Yep! As the 1275FPS Remington HD in 2 3/4", 1 1/4 oz. of #6's were in the Super 90 w/PM tube that took a double and triple on canadas and a double on mallards this AM.


Oct 5th in SK, 20 snow geese, 4 drake mallards, 4 drakes pintails in 32 shots including 4 triples and several doubles :hammer: using Remington Nitro 2-3/4" #2 steel. If you want triples, you gotta get em close, and you don't need heavy for close birds.
Last edited by Theduckguru on Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby - Andy - » Thu Dec 26, 2013 8:12 am

Doesn't matter how fast it goes if you shoot behind them.

Pellets on target kill birds. Period.
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby eastcoastsoxfan » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:37 pm

I just got a bunch of older 90s steel from a retired hunter that was cleaning out his basement.

3" Rem Nitro 1 3/8 #2 fps not on box, guessing 1300fps
3" Fed 1 3/8 #4 loose shells, fps not listed on shell, guessing 1300fps
2 3/4" Fed 1 1/4 #3 1275fps
2 3/4" Imperial "special long range" 1 1/8 #4 fps not listed, bet Rob Mack remembers these, definitely early 90s!

I'm hunting tomorrow and monday, we'll see how these old loads stack up to the 1400-1600fps reloads I've been shooting. No time to pattern, these slow loads out of a Hastings WL Barrel and maybe a 935 on monday, I think patterns will be good! :thumbsup:
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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby Rob MacK » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:51 pm

eastcoastsoxfan wrote:I just got a bunch of older 90s steel from a retired hunter that was cleaning out his basement.

3" Rem Nitro 1 3/8 #2 fps not on box, guessing 1300fps
3" Fed 1 3/8 #4 loose shells, fps not listed on shell, guessing 1300fps
2 3/4" Fed 1 1/4 #3 1275fps
2 3/4" Imperial "special long range" 1 1/8 #4 fps not listed, bet Rob Mack remembers these, definitely early 90s!

I'm hunting tomorrow and monday, we'll see how these old loads stack up to the 1400-1600fps reloads I've been shooting. No time to pattern, these slow loads out of a Hastings WL Barrel and maybe a 935 on monday, I think patterns will be good! :thumbsup:


Oh yes I do remember those Imperials. Cant remember what they did in the field. The older Imperial 1 1/4 4s in lead were solid.


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Re: shot weight vs. velocity

Postby Jon Bergren » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:18 pm

deleted. Ned S
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