Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Frank Lopez » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:53 am

Minneguy wrote:How different is hunting with an over/under than a sxs? I know the sight picture is different and I can't really see any way it would be.


Consider this. Great Britain is a land steeped in tradition. Breaking one of those traditions is very difficult in the British culture (I know this first hand, my son-in-law is English :smile: ). The English developed the SxS game gun. It is their pride and joy and for over a century was the standard at driven shoots. But, as of late, the O/U has taken over. Yes, there are some who still cling to the SxS, but the O/U seems to have become the new standard. They are simply better suited for the task. They can be made just as light and lively as any SxS, firing the bottom barrel first puts the line of recoil closer to the shoulder making felt recoil seem less and minimizing muzzle rise thus making staying on target for a second shot is easier.

Regarding that Citori. That's a great price! The Citoris are all steel proofed, so steel shouldn't be an issue. And the 28 inch barrels are a plus. About the only drawback for any O/U is opening and closing the action in a cramped duck blind. O/Us tend to require a little more space to open than do SxS guns.

Personally, I'm a SxS guy. I was raised with them and all my upland gunning is done with one. A fine double in the style of the English game gun almost points itself and is a joy and pride to carry. All that said, remember, a fine SxS is traditional. But, were I you, for now, I'd go with the Citori. You are obviously young and have time. Save your money and over time get yourself a fine double to play with.

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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby solway gunner » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:59 pm

When your shooting in last light conditions you dont "loose" vision on the end of your barrel with a sxs,unlike single sight plain barrels eg o/u or semi auto which disapear into the night sky.,so shooting a sxs can help if your shooting into late evening ,they are also far quicker to reload on driven days because of the barrel configuration-ever tried loading a shell into the bottom barrel of an o/u in the heat of battle quickly?
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby ohio mike » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:40 pm

solway gunner wrote:When your shooting in last light conditions you dont "loose" vision on the end of your barrel with a sxs,unlike single sight plain barrels eg o/u or semi auto which disapear into the night sky.,so shooting a sxs can help if your shooting into late evening ,they are also far quicker to reload on driven days because of the barrel configuration-ever tried loading a shell into the bottom barrel of an o/u in the heat of battle quickly?


According to many of the experts on here you don't need a bead on a shotgun because you never see the barrel only the target. Please explain to them. I understand but many don't.
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Frank Lopez » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:40 am

Solway,

Bob Brister raised that point nearly 40 years ago. I'm not quite sure that I (or for that matter many) actually buy into it. In the first place, here on the left size of the pond, we don't/can't shoot in really low light conditions. With the exception of the spring snow goose conservation seasons, we can't start shooting until a half hour before sunrise and end at sun set for waterfowl (snow goose shooting in the conservation season is extended to a half hour after sunset). For upland game, it's sunrise to sunset.

I do get the logic behind the theory, but to my way of thinking, the barrel is only a point of reference and is not clearly seen in the shooter's vision. Complete focus should be on the target, with the barrel only a blurred reference. I shoot SxS guns exclusively for upland birds. I've been shooting them all my life. For waterfowl I've pretty much always used single barreled repeaters. I've bounced back and forth between the two at will, sometimes on the same day, and I've never noticed any difference.

That said, I'm sure it doesn't hurt.

Frank
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby solway gunner » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:11 pm

Its not a theory ,Just compare a sxs to an o/u or an semi in failing light conditions.,see for yourself.Think i read it in an article?i grew up shooting duck with a sxs on corn fed ponds into darkness and its how i saw it when i changed between guns at the time. Always so much conjecture on here its incredible.
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Minneguy » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:13 pm

Well guys, I have an update. I ended up with my dad's old 311, for doing an install on some flooring for him, and under the condition that I will take extremely good care of it and actually bring down ducks and geese with it, he has agreed to let me use his citori lightning next year on geese, and grouse if id like. Now I can continue to save up till I can but a nice double. I am looking to save up 1500, what Is my best bet double sxs or o/u for that kind of money? Thanks for your help guys!
The 311 shoots nice, is a little beat up so I don't have to worry and has two triggers. It's got a fixed I/c and mod chokes and will not eject. Either way I finally own a classic double:) I am pumped! I'm going out tomorrow with it to see if I can't jump shoot some bunnies.


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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Minneguy » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:16 pm

Another question, I found a really nice little 28 guage over and under, is 28 a useful round? I have no experience with it. Is it expensive to shoot? Can I use it for ducks? The gun was incredible for 500 used at cabelas, and if I can swing it I might pick it up. That is, if it is a useful gun. How's it compare to a 20?


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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Frank Lopez » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:14 pm

The 28ga is an effective and fun caliber for a lot of things, but mostly waterfowl isn't one of them. There are some fellows on this forum, Lostknife and Hawglips in particular, that reload the 28 with TSS. That combination will make it into a viable waterfowl tool. And for anything else, too. But that's the hobbiest's approach. Load it up just to prove that they can. The reality is that most people aren't going to go through all the trouble and expense.

For smallish birds, up to the size of ruffed grouse, the 28ga loaded with 3/4oz of #7 1/2s will work just fine. If you can control yourself and limit your shots to 30 yards or less, it'll stand up to any pheasant, too. I have three, tow O/Us and a SxS. and I use them all. The O/Us are great for skeet and will absolutely smash any target on the field if you put it where it needs to be. I use my SxS for woodcock and quail, and I believe it would be a fine dove gun.

As far as what SxS to get for around $1500, if you're looking new, check out the Ugartechea Grade I at Lion Country Supply. The Uggies are about the best buy on the SxS market right now and have been for some years. If looking used, you can get some nice deals on guns, just keep checking Gunbroker and GunsAmerica.

Frank
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby ksfowler166 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:14 pm

Minneguy wrote: Is 28 a useful round?

I like my 28ga because I shoot it very well I also like the novelty of the gauge. Is it useful yes though I would rephrase that to say it does not present a handicap. No one buys a 28ga because it is useful they by it because it is a 28ga.

Is it expensive to shoot?

That completely depends if you reload or not. I personally reload and my reloads come out to around $5 or so per box of 25. So for me the 28ga is cheaper to shoot than my 12ga or 20ga. Ok so for the sake of argument lets say that you do reload target shells (3/4oz) then the major source of expense would be those situations where 3/4oz of lead is not enough. Those situations would be pheasant which is defiantly not a high volume affair (generally only a box or so a season) and waterfowl which you can keep costs down if you shoot a lot (which I don't) by shooting steel and a 12ga.

Can I use it for ducks?

Yes you most certainly can. I myself have used it on two hunt. The first time I used Hevi Shot 3/4oz #4 and killed a mallard with two shots. The problem with that was do to the load I was using I was basically shooting an 1 1/2oz of #BBB steel. So the pattern density was crap. The second time I was shooting geese and I used the before mentioned HS load but I stopped my gun and aimed for the midsection on the goose on two separate geese. Which resulted in me hitting them too far back and in the butt and crippling them. I completely blame my shooting and not the gun or gauge for that.

The 28ga when used with Hevi Shot or similar is just as if not more effective than a 12ga 3" gun with steel shot. For comparison a 1300fps 3/4oz #6 Hevi Shot load is equal to a 1800fps 1 1/4oz #2 steel load or a 1300fps 7/8oz #5 lead load for ducks. For geese a 1300fps 3/4oz #4 Hevi Shot load is equal to a 1450fps 1 1/2oz #BBB steel load or a 1100fps 1 1/16oz #2 lead load.

How's it compare to a 20?

In my opinion with lead anything the 20ga can do the 28ga can do. They have similar "standard" payloads 3/4oz vs 7/8oz the difference of which is really unperceivable to most shooters. As well as there are 1oz and even 1-1/16oz lead loads for the 28ga. So I feel that when shooting the standard 3/4oz load that is a 35 yard pheasant load but the 1oz and 1-1/16 make the 28ga a 40 yards (my arbitrary limit for most shooters with any gauge for any game) pheasant gun.
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Minneguy » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:16 pm

I have a question guys, is it safe to shoot steel through a Stevens 311?
I'm anxiously awaiting my tax return, it might be time to go for a 20 or 28 that is a little newer so I can shoot steel.


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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby baltz526 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:06 pm

Minneguy wrote:I have a question guys, is it safe to shoot steel through a Stevens 311?
I'm anxiously awaiting my tax return, it might be time to go for a 20 or 28 that is a little newer so I can shoot steel.


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Stevens 311 is a pre-steel shot gun. But has little value except as a shooter. What you shoot is up to you. How it is choked is what I would use to determine shot size/speed/weight of any load I shot in it. There are some pretty safe loads out there. 2 3/4" Remington 1375fps #3 steel is a very usable load. Patterning will tell you a lot about what loads are somewhat safe in any double. Measuring the bore and each choke is where I would start.
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Frank Lopez » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:53 pm

Shooting steel through any gun not specifically rated for steel is something of a crap shoot. About the biggest issue is the walnut, or bulge right behind the choke area. Most times, a walnut is not a problem if the choke is modified or looser. In single barrel guns, this is really only a cosmetic concern, as it doesn't effect the choke. But with doubles, it's a different problem. Bulges on a double will cause the ribs to become loose. Were it my gun, I'd follow the CIP recommendations. Don't shoot any shot over about 1450fps MV. Don't shoot steel through any barrel choked tighter than modified. Don't shoot any load over about 1 1/8oz and don't shoot any steel shot larger than #3. Stay within those guidelines and you shouldn't have any problems.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Frank Lopez » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:54 pm

Frank Lopez wrote:Shooting steel through any gun not specifically rated for steel is something of a crap shoot. About the biggest issue is the walnut, or bulge right behind the choke area. Most times, a walnut is not a problem if the choke is modified or looser. In single barrel guns, this is really only a cosmetic concern, as it doesn't effect the choke. But with doubles, it's a different problem. Bulges on a double will cause the ribs to become loose. Were it my gun, I'd follow the CIP recommendations. Don't shoot any shot over about 1450fps MV. Don't shoot steel through any barrel choked tighter than modified. Don't shoot any load over about 1 1/8oz and don't shoot any steel shot larger than #3. Stay within those guidelines and you shouldn't have any problems.

Ultimately, there are some risks. Only you can make the decision as to whether or not to shoot steel shot through your guns.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby C M Wings » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:16 am

"At 6'3, 215 pounds what would be the barrel length I should look at?"

Whatever the hell you want... who's going to argue with you?

:wink: :lol3:
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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Minneguy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:14 pm

Thanks for the help guys :) I just got a couple boxes of lead #5 for pheasants and all purpose upland, an I picked up some kent 2 3/4 1 1/4 oz 1300 Fps steel loads up to shot size 3, one box of 3's, one of 4's for ducks and state land.


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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Minneguy » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:16 pm

C M Wings wrote:"At 6'3, 215 pounds what would be the barrel length I should look at?"

Whatever the hell you want... who's going to argue with you?

:wink: :lol3:

lol that's friggin funny man, but you'd be surprised. It's usually the smaller guys too for some reason. That post made my day haha


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Re: Sxs side by side shotgun pictures and advice

Postby Minneguy » Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:35 pm

Does anybody have hero shots with their doubles?


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