1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

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1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Rick.B » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:42 pm

I usually shoot 2's or 3's in 3" but I don't really know the difference.

Is there a big difference? Should I be shooting one over the other?

Thanks!!
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby rikasam2013 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:33 pm

Here's how I do it with 12 ga steel shot shells, upper left pocket a few BB tungsten for geese, upper right pocket half a dozen
2 3/4" #6 quail/swatter shells...lower pockets, early season 2 3/4" or 3", 1 1/8 oz #4's in one pocket, 3", 1 1/8 oz #2's in another. Mid season 3", 1 1/4 oz #2's in one pocket, 3", 1 1/4 oz #1's in the other. Late season all 3", 1 1/4 oz #1's unless I have one of my 3 1/2" guns then there will be some thumper 1 3/8 oz BB's thrown in too. :thumbsup:
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Joe Hunter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:08 pm

Rick,

1) 12ga 3" 1 1/8 oz loads are usually loaded to a higher velocity than the 1 1/4 oz load.

2) 1 1/8 oz loads start out with fewer pellets than the 1 1/4 oz loads.

Approx. pellet count 1 1/8 oz #3 -- 170
Approx. pellet count 1 1/4 oz #3 -- 190

Approx. pellet count 1 1/8 oz #2 -- 135
Approx. pellet count 1 1/4 oz #2 -- 150

3) Choked properly for the distance you shoot and the ducks you're shooting, either loading should be capable of killing most any duck you can put the pattern on.

4) Does the extra velocity make any difference to the duck? I doubt it.

5) Is there a big difference? You might get denser patterns with the heavier/slower loads and the #3 shot will probably shoot patterns with higher pattern density.

6) Should you be shooting one over the other? Steel 3s are a great all-round duck pellet and usually give good pattern density, steel 2s are a good Mallard and close decoying goose pellet but the only way for you to really know is to pattern them in your gun/choke.

Hope this helps, good luck.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Frank Lopez » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:28 pm

Rick.B wrote:I usually shoot 2's or 3's in 3" but I don't really know the difference.

Is there a big difference? Should I be shooting one over the other?

Thanks!!


Hi Rick,

I basically shoot both, depending on the situation. Under normal circumstances, I keep my shots to 40 yards and under. If a bird is hit and making for parts unknown, I'll empty the gun regardless of range. I basically use 1 1/4oz of #3s or #2s, each started at about 1400fps. The #3s work fine for me and can penetrate sufficiently out to about 50 yards. But, when the wind is up, say over 20mph, I find the #2s to be a bit better. I like the #3s for pattern density. The #2s will penetrate a good bit further and buck the wind better.

Frank
I feel slightly sorry for a man who has never patterned his gun, who has no idea how far his chosen load will retain killing penetration. But I'm extremely sorry for the ducks he shoots at beyond the killing range of his gun and load - Bob Brister
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Theduckguru » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:11 pm

Rick.B wrote:I usually shoot 2's or 3's in 3" but I don't really know the difference.

Is there a big difference? Should I be shooting one over the other?

Thanks!!


If you are shooting 35-40 yard shoots over decoys, there is no real difference. Reach out with the #2s to 55 yards, you are likely are going to want more than 1-1/8 oz of shot.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby m3500 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:34 pm

#2's will kill a little bit farther then 3's, but 3's have more pellets in them.
If it flies it dies, if it just sits there it dies too.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby mudpack » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:14 pm

Since max killing range of a shotgun is solely determined by pattern quality, the 3's should deliver a killing pattern further out than 2's will.....ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.

And, since max killing range of a shotgun is solely determined by pattern quality, a heavier payload should deliver a killing pattern further out than a lighter payload.....ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.
Get my drift?

My favorite duck loads are #3 steel, 1 1/4oz , at 1275 and 1400fps MV.

Although, tomorrow, for the first time ever, I'll be taking my 20ga out for ducks; 7/8oz of 3's. Conditions demand it and I have little choice.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby blackened89 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:42 pm

you will get about thirty different answers to original question
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Bug Doc » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:31 am

mudpack wrote:Since max killing range of a shotgun is solely determined by pattern quality, the 3's should deliver a killing pattern further out than 2's will.....ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.

And, since max killing range of a shotgun is solely determined by pattern quality, a heavier payload should deliver a killing pattern further out than a lighter payload.....ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.
Get my drift?


I understand what mudpack is getting at, but this is a bit of a misleading statement. If this were completely accurate, then we'd all be shooting steel 9's and killing ducks at ridiculous ranges. :eek: Load choice necessarily involves a trade-off between pattern density and penetration.

Shotguns work by putting one or more pellets through a vital organ (brain, spinal cord, heart, lungs, major blood vessel, flight bone, etc...). Only about a third of the bird's body is vital - hitting it elsewhere (legs, abdomen, tail, etc...) only results in a wounded bird. As mudpack correctly pointed out, you need to hit the bird with enough pellets to ensure that at least one of them hits a vital organ and puts it on the ground. Generally 4-6 hits are enough to ensure this takes place.

The other issue is penetration. An experience I had will help to illustrate. In the early days of steel shot I hit a fat late-season mallard crossing at about 40-45 yards. It was a shot I'd made hundreds of times with lead. Feathers flew, the bird was rocked, but he kept flying over a ridge and out of sight. Luckily, a passing trucker saw my bird go down and retrieved it for me. I decided to do a necropsy on that bird. He took at least three potentially lethal hits from #3 steel pellets (so no issues with pattern density). Two of them penetrated the thick feathers, skin, fat, and were embedded in the surface of the breast muscle - they did not have enough penetration to reach the vital organs. The third pellet hit right in the armpit. It also did not penetrate very far, but it did cut the brachial artery at the base of the wing and the bird bled out from there (there was a clot of blood the size of a golf ball around that hit). Luckily, the current crop of steel shotshells are much improved, and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot that same duck again with a modern 1400+ fps load of steel 3's.

To answer the original question, there isn't a huge difference between 3's and 2's. At the same starting velocity you get similar penetration about 5-7 yards further with the larger pellets. As long as you are holding adequate pattern density, you will see some improvement with the larger shot size. However, you likely will need a tighter choke, and will give up some pattern width at shorter distances. All part of the tradeoffs with shotshells. In order to make the best decision, you need to look at your individual circumstances. If you are pass-shooting big mallards at 40-50 yards, the faster load of 2's shot through a tight choke would likely be better. If you are shooting multiple species over blocks at 20-40 yards, then the slower load of 3's (with an open choke) may be more appropriate.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Beretta06 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:43 pm

The birds in the second pic. The 7 on the left were taken with 1 1/16oz #3s rsi recipe #88 on the 7 on the right were taken by my partner with Remington hyper sonic 1 1/4 oz #2s all this Friday. He had 3 or 4 crips I had 1. The second pic is more of the same yesterday I had one cripp which was the hen bufflehead. That I mistook for a teal coming directly out of the sun. I also use 1oz 4s but the 1 1/16 oz 3s looked pretty good. No questions about enough shot for a good pattern at longer yardage, no question about knockdown power.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby mudpack » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:33 am

Bug Doc wrote:
mudpack wrote:Since max killing range of a shotgun is solely determined by pattern quality, the 3's should deliver a killing pattern further out than 2's will.....ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.

And, since max killing range of a shotgun is solely determined by pattern quality, a heavier payload should deliver a killing pattern further out than a lighter payload.....ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL.
Get my drift?


I understand what mudpack is getting at, but this is a bit of a misleading statement. If this were completely accurate, then we'd all be shooting steel 9's and killing ducks at ridiculous ranges.

But, you'd be ignoring the last part of my statements...you know, the words in BOLD. I was/am talking about a "killing pattern", not killing penetration. This thread is comparing payloads, not just shot size.
Steel 9's are not a waterfowl load, and we all know that, but we aren't discussing shot sizes.
I stand by my statements; a light load of steel 2's will run out of pattern density long before it runs out of lethal penetration.
Likewise, a heavy load of steel 3's will run out of pattern density before it runs out of lethal penetration, but will hold that pattern density longer than the light load of steel 2's.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby z51 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:55 am

Best all around 1 1/4 oz #2 at 1400 to 1450 fps. From there you simply change the choke.

I like to keep things simple.

This would be for large to medium duck at all ranges all conditions.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Beretta06 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:39 pm

I agree if you had only 1 choice 1 1/4 oz #2s is best allaround shell. I would want more velocity than 1400 or 1450 fps. That round will kill teal to mallards. I choose to use three different shot sizes and two different payload weights for different weather conditions.

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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Yuchi1 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:33 pm

Split the difference, and shoot 1 3/16 oz. at 1619FPS/MV with 1's, 2's, 3's or 4's and have attained workable to excellent patterns with these tubes; Briley XS in LF, Trulock PH in IM, Terror tube in .681, RemChoke in FULL (lead/steel), RemChoke Sporting Clays extended tube in MOD (made by Briley) and Pattern Master (original) tube, to name a few.

I prefer such over the slower stuff as during the course of any season, it will leave you with birds (at the edge of the spread) swimming away with their heads up. Been there, done that.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Beretta06 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:16 pm

Yuchi1 wrote:Split the difference, and shoot 1 3/16 oz. at 1619FPS/MV with 1's, 2's, 3's or 4's and have attained workable to excellent patterns with these tubes; Briley XS in LF, Trulock PH in IM, Terror tube in .681, RemChoke in FULL (lead/steel), RemChoke Sporting Clays extended tube in MOD (made by Briley) and Pattern Master (original) tube, to name a few.

I prefer such over the slower stuff as during the course of any season, it will leave you with birds (at the edge of the spread) swimming away with their heads up. Been there, done that.



Yuchi

What is the recipe data on that! I'll give it a try and see how my A-400 patterns it.

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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby z51 » Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:51 am

Beretta06 wrote:I agree if you had only 1 choice 1 1/4 oz #2s is best allaround shell. I would want more velocity than 1400 or 1450 fps. That round will kill teal to mallards. I choose to use three different shot sizes and two different payload weights for different weather conditions.

Dwight


Actually I use the 1550 fps 1 1/8 oz #3 load myself but it takes more choke in my guns to get the same pattern percentages as the slower 1 1/4 oz load. It is a quick way to spread patterns with the same choke. Since I don't reload steel anymore those are my two go to 3" loads. I still would pick 1 1/4 oz of #2 if I could only shoot one load for ducks.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby rebelcj7 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:38 am

Simply said 2's will hit harder then 3's, but 3's will have more pellets. The "hitting harder", in that small of a size change, imo, would not be very noticeable.

I use 3" BB Hevi Metal myself, use it for puddle ducks, to honkers, to specks, to snows... Don't have to worry about what shell for what hunt. KISS I say...
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Yuchi1 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:08 am

rebelcj7 wrote:Simply said 2's will hit harder then 3's, but 3's will have more pellets. The "hitting harder", in that small of a size change, imo, would not be very noticeable.

I use 3" BB Hevi Metal myself, use it for puddle ducks, to honkers, to specks, to snows... Don't have to worry about what shell for what hunt. KISS I say...


With the fact HM is such a spreader load, using the larger (BB's) pellets would tend to exacerbate the problem and likely further diminish the effeective range of such a concoction, IMO.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby rebelcj7 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:11 am

That's the great thing about being a human being, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. :beer:
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby goosepit2007 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:18 pm

why shoot heavy metal bb's when you can shoot a reload of 11/16 of 2's/3's(steel) going 1700 plus fps and shoot anything that comes into the spread. Or factory 11/8 of 2's steel and do the same thing and actually get good patterns and not spreader load out to 50 yards with ease with regular steel loads. or even 520 grain loads of 2's(steel) going 1550 fps.

all the steel loads mentioned above will kill teal -big honkers with no problems at all with way less money involved per shell.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Yuchi1 » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:06 pm

rebelcj7 wrote:That's the great thing about being a human being, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. :beer:


Also, the great thing about actually patterning your load (as per Bug Doc & Joe Hunter) and finding out how good or bad (as in the case of HM) it really performs.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby Beretta06 » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:52 pm

I'll pass on the HV Overpriced for me. Most of my birds are within 40 to 45 yards I push it to 50 here and there. I have pretty much taylor made a round that works perfect for me at 1 1/16 oz it's just devastating from mallards to greenwings. I'd rather buy some more blue collar full body decoys with the savings in $ just my preference. Steel will kill easy to 50 yards. If you have to shoot further than that maybe other skills need to be shined up a bit.

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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby rem1100pro » Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:55 pm

I usually get better patterns with the 1 1/4 ounce shells. I think this is due to the slightly lower MV and the choke tubes I like to use. The increased number of pellets increases your odds slightly so over an extended shooting period they should bag a few more birds.

The pellet velocity difference once you reach let's say 40 yards is minimal between the 2 loads.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby ibedamn » Tue Mar 11, 2014 6:12 am

I use 1 1/8 mainly because that what I shoot for doves, quail, rabbits, or clays. Same basic felt recoil no matter what I'm shooting. My gun patterns 3" Kents well. I really believe if lighter loads will work, and it has for me, it sure keeps down the flinch factor.
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Re: 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 oz shot?

Postby mudpack » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:31 am

rikasam2013 wrote:Here's how I do it .... upper left pocket a few BB tungsten for geese, upper right pocket half a dozen 2 3/4" #6 quail/swatter shells...lower pockets, early season 2 3/4" or 3", 1 1/8 oz #4's in one pocket, 3", 1 1/8 oz #2's in another. Mid season 3", 1 1/4 oz #2's in one pocket, 3", 1 1/4 oz #1's in the other. Late season all 3", 1 1/4 oz #1's ... (and) some thumper 1 3/8 oz BB's...


Now....there's a man who knows how to do this waterfowling thing right! :thumbsup:
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