Put up... or Shut up?

Interact with others on shot gun shells, reloading, ballistics, chokes, or anything that has to do with your shooting.

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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Beretta06 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:58 pm

Talk up the heavy stuff all you like, I really like 1 oz or 1 1/16oz steel 3 or 4s at a fraction of the price.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Catdaddy89 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:12 pm

I wonder how he got all those pictures off of my Facebook?


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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby rebelcj7 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:40 pm

Well atleast you have good taste in firearms Beretta, I'll give you that. :beer:
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby On the X » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:46 pm

Yuchi1 wrote:
Because...had you truly examined Bug Doc's patterns and/or looked at Joe Hunter's posted pattern findings you would know this load is "good" to ~30 yards (especially for those that have subpar wingshooting skills) and basically a crippler at 40+ yards. :fingerpt:

I don't intend to disrespect Bug Doc nor Joe Hunter because they act like the adults they are, unlike many here, but their patterns mean nothing to me as I shoot my own guns and not theirs. If I remember right, their patterns where of a very limited number of different chokes. I'm sure all you reloaders here would not quit shooting til you found THE choke/gun that patterned YOUR load the best you could get. The ones here with little to zero interest in Hevi-Metal obviously haven't put nearly as much time and effort into patterning with it and why would they? They found the negative results they were searching for. As for me, I'm content with, but am still searching for better. As far as it being a 30 yard load and a 40+ crippler? Just how many birds have you killed with Hevi-Metal? I've killed many birds at 40+ with this load and guess what, I'm not getting anything free from EMI for posting my positive experiences. Hell.....not even a damn T-shirt.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Gj325 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:51 pm

On the X wrote:
Yuchi1 wrote:
Because...had you truly examined Bug Doc's patterns and/or looked at Joe Hunter's posted pattern findings you would know this load is "good" to ~30 yards (especially for those that have subpar wingshooting skills) and basically a crippler at 40+ yards. :fingerpt:

I don't intend to disrespect Bug Doc nor Joe Hunter because they act like the adults they are, unlike many here, but their patterns mean nothing to me as I shoot my own guns and not theirs. If I remember right, their patterns where of a very limited number of different chokes. I'm sure all you reloaders here would not quit shooting til you found THE choke/gun that patterned YOUR load the best you could get. The ones here with little to zero interest in Hevi-Metal obviously haven't put nearly as much time and effort into patterning with it and why would they? They found the negative results they were searching for. As for me, I'm content with, but am still searching for better. As far as it being a 30 yard load and a 40+ crippler? Just how many birds have you killed with Hevi-Metal? I've killed many birds at 40+ with this load and guess what, I'm not getting anything free from EMI for posting my positive experiences. Hell.....not even a damn T-shirt.


What choke gun are you shooting to get the best results
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Beretta06 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:00 pm

rebelcj7 wrote:Well atleast you have good taste in firearms Beretta, I'll give you that. :beer:
I wouldn't own another brand, I think 9 of the 12 members of our club are now shooting A-400s. Curious? Are you obsessed with hevi metal? I patterned it. Shot it didn't find it to perform noticeably better than the steel reloads I produce. The only thing I've found that is outstandingly better than my reloads is the kent tungsten Matrix 3" 1 1/4 oz of 5s at 1550. It just got so expensive it wasn't worth it.
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I could add photos of what I've killed with an 1 1/16th of steel all night long. but it doesn't mean much. I can easily knock birds down at 50 yards. Or I can set up decoys properly and hone my calling skills and kill them at 30 yards.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Yuchi1 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:04 pm

On the X wrote:
Yuchi1 wrote:
Because...had you truly examined Bug Doc's patterns and/or looked at Joe Hunter's posted pattern findings you would know this load is "good" to ~30 yards (especially for those that have subpar wingshooting skills) and basically a crippler at 40+ yards. :fingerpt:

I don't intend to disrespect Bug Doc nor Joe Hunter because they act like the adults they are, unlike many here, but their patterns mean nothing to me as I shoot my own guns and not theirs. If I remember right, their patterns where of a very limited number of different chokes. I'm sure all you reloaders here would not quit shooting til you found THE choke/gun that patterned YOUR load the best you could get. The ones here with little to zero interest in Hevi-Metal obviously haven't put nearly as much time and effort into patterning with it and why would they? They found the negative results they were searching for. As for me, I'm content with, but am still searching for better. As far as it being a 30 yard load and a 40+ crippler? Just how many birds have you killed with Hevi-Metal? I've killed many birds at 40+ with this load and guess what, I'm not getting anything free from EMI for posting my positive experiences. Hell.....not even a damn T-shirt.


I patterned it with Terror tube(s) in .700 & .681, Trulock PH in MOD & IM, Patternmaster LR, Briley XS in MOD, IM & LF and got the same crappy patterns as Bug Doc & Joe Hunter. Then, I tried it with the MII 20 ga. w/factory IC & MOD and a Briley XS in IM. Same results as the 12 gauge and would up giving the stuff ( 2 cases) away to some of the kids of my buddies so they could just shoot it up. Based upon those findings, I wasn't about to waste opportunities in the field shooting something that was not up to standards and thereby do a disservice to the resource.

BTW, I shot some of my "old" Hevi Steel (not, the new crap) in the Beretta 390 with the Terror in .681 & the MII 20 ga. with factory IC & Briley XS in IM and it shot patterns (40 yds.) from 72% to 89%. That, my friend, is the good stuff and if you had it readily available to shoot, the HM crap would quickly become door stops.

BTW, I didn't get a tee shirt either. :beer:
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby rebelcj7 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:33 am

Edit--Assumed would resize pics automatically, my bad...

Beretta06 wrote:
rebelcj7 wrote:Well atleast you have good taste in firearms Beretta, I'll give you that. :beer:
I wouldn't own another brand, I think 9 of the 12 members of our club are now shooting A-400s. Curious? Are you obsessed with hevi metal? I patterned it. Shot it didn't find it to perform noticeably better than the steel reloads I produce. The only thing I've found that is outstandingly better than my reloads is the kent tungsten Matrix 3" 1 1/4 oz of 5s at 1550. It just got so expensive it wasn't worth it.


Beretta06 wrote:
rebelcj7 wrote:Well atleast you have good taste in firearms Beretta, I'll give you that. :beer:
I wouldn't own another brand, I think 9 of the 12 members of our club are now shooting A-400s. Curious? Are you obsessed with hevi metal? I patterned it. Shot it didn't find it to perform noticeably better than the steel reloads I produce. The only thing I've found that is outstandingly better than my reloads is the kent tungsten Matrix 3" 1 1/4 oz of 5s at 1550. It just got so expensive it wasn't worth it.


Obsessed with it? Mildly... Nah, it's a great shell. I hunt well over 100 days a year, all over and with lots of folks. Many days they are struggling shooting XYZ and I toss em a handful of Hevi Metal and instantly hooked. I hear you tho that probably won't hold a candle to reloads, so many more things you can do to tweak em, have some good friends who reload and have some flat insane loads. Great pics of the kids btw, nothin better right there! Been taking my daughter since she was 2, finally 9 and lop long enough to shoot this past year. Talk about excited!

Got her going on Doves, she shot 10 one morning.

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Then her first teal..

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Game on from there she says..

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Got her first blue during the conservation order opener

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First pair of waders at age 3..

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I'll close with this one..

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Anywho, for the record she shoots a Rem 870 Youth 20.... with none other then Hevi Metal 3" 3's :grooving: :grooving: :grooving:
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby blackened89 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:58 am

I haven't been following any of the beef but if a brother can kill birds nonstop like that does it patterning your gun even matter anymore?
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby slowshooter » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:15 am

I agree. It isn't the shotshell. It's location and shooter.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby lattehead » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:30 am

1
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Bug Doc » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:45 am

blackened89 wrote:I haven't been following any of the beef but if a brother can kill birds nonstop like that does it patterning your gun even matter anymore?


It's all in the probabilities. Look at the two patterns posted below:


Image

Image


Those were the best combinations I could come up with shooting roughly equivalent Hevi-Metal and Rem Nitro Steel loads. At that distance the critical hit percentage favored the cheaper steel load. An extra 5-6 percent killing percentage might not seem like a lot (most hunters probably wouldn't notice if only 84 out of 100 ducks they hit died as opposed to 90 out of 100), but just knowing that I could be shooting a load that killed more birds and crippled fewer would bother me. It would especially bother me if I paid more money just to cripple more birds. :eek:
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby cannon » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:36 am

Yuchi1 wrote:
cannon wrote:
rebelcj7 wrote:I probably kill more ducks in 2 months then you will in your lifetime, so there's the put up...

:beer:


Is that a general assumption regarding all forum members, or was it pointed in a specific direction? If there's a wager at stake here, I might wanna get in on some of that action.


Watch out "C", you're calling out a real passive/aggressive internet badass dude. :eek:

http://www.hevishot.com/index.php?optio ... &Itemid=74

http://www.waterfowltalk.com/



Wow. I had no idea. My bad. :bow:

Marketing strategy:

Step 1: Shock and awe internet users by telling tales of my greatness.

Step 2: Try to reinforce my braggart tales of greatness by posting random pictures and carefully pointing out that I am better than the viewers of said random photographs.

Step 3: Offend target audience.

Step 4: Make claims that I couldn't possibly verify or back up.

Step 5: Attempt to conceal my position as rep for company and assume that my audience is too stupid to see through my thinly-veiled pitch.

Step 6: Reiterate my greatness by claiming that I hunt twice as many days as do people with real jobs and brag about how my gun is better than theirs.

Step 7: Dodge responses illustrating that my product is overpriced crap that will actually impair the end user's intended use.

Step 8: Ignore fact that products purchased at 1/3 the price of the junk that I'm pimping are actually more effective.

Okay, I'm convinced. Where do I get some of this magical stuff.

Geez. How many of these guys gotta get called out before they pick a new strategy? How 'bout this: "Hi. I'm 'Rebel.' My buddies call me that 'cause I'm rebellious. I pimp shot for a company, and I think that you'd really like it if you tried it." "Oh, patterning problems? We'll, maybe I can help with that. What gun, choke, and load combo did you try?" "Alright, so you used a Remington wingmaster 3" with a factory flush-mount modified choke. Let me run out, pattern a similar 3" wingmaster using a variety of chokes, and get back to you with the results I find. Maybe that will help you make an educated decision regarding the combo that would best suite your shooting needs."
Smell that? Smells like sumthin died in here.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:06 am

Summary Judgement Granted! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:20 am

Bug Doc wrote:
blackened89 wrote:I haven't been following any of the beef but if a brother can kill birds nonstop like that does it patterning your gun even matter anymore?


It's all in the probabilities. Look at the two patterns posted below:


Image

Image


Those were the best combinations I could come up with shooting roughly equivalent Hevi-Metal and Rem Nitro Steel loads. At that distance the critical hit percentage favored the cheaper steel load. An extra 5-6 percent killing percentage might not seem like a lot (most hunters probably wouldn't notice if only 84 out of 100 ducks they hit died as opposed to 90 out of 100), but just knowing that I could be shooting a load that killed more birds and crippled fewer would bother me. It would especially bother me if I paid more money just to cripple more birds. :eek:



~28 of the "Hevi" pellets are outside the 30" circle while ~18 of them are within it, meaning that ~64% of this load's namesake pellets aren't even in the pattern zone. Plus, the pellets that actually strike this illustration's target vital areas are only some of the regular steel ones. That is definitely looking like (IMO) the crippler of crippler loads.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Beretta06 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:55 am

For me I have equal or greater success with what I reload, taylor made to my gun, plus it's something I made. I did all the work to make it right. It adds to the satisfaction of the hunt. I shoot next to guys banging away with 3.5" loads and I match them or better them with a high quality much smaller shell. When they ask what are you shooting and I tell them the look on their face is priceless. I used to be the guy shooting the 3.5" if you like heavy Metal cool.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Jon Bergren » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:09 am

Beretta06 wrote:For me I have equal or greater success with what I reload, taylor made to my gun, plus it's something I made. I did all the work to make it right. It adds to the satisfaction of the hunt. I shoot next to guys banging away with 3.5" loads and I match them or better them with a high quality much smaller shell. When they ask what are you shooting and I tell them the look on their face is priceless. I used to be the guy shooting the 3.5" if you like heavy Metal cool.


Those light loads over 1700 fps are fantastic on geese, ducks, pheasants, dove and cranes. Ned S
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:13 am

Monday, was in a local retailer (largest independent gun shop in Tulsa) and noticed they still had ~80% of the pallets of HM that have been sitting there since last August. I wonder if they're considering having an "Albatross" sale to try and move the stuff out to the pilgrims ?
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby On the X » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:05 pm

For many years I shot 3.5inch 1 9/16 1's at the slow velocity of 1300 FPS which I really really liked. My son bought me my 1st box of Hevi-Metal when he was 9 as a Christmas present with his own saved up money, I was way more impressed with my son than the load but had to use it for him. I went with what the box said for the 1st hunt as far as choke and percentage which was not even close to what it should have been. At that time I was using a Mossberg 5500 I bought new back in '91 to shoot it through with factory mod choke....it sucked. That gun also came with and Accu-steel choke marked FULL WITH STEEL 2-BB. I did a very informal pattern test with that choke and wasn't overly impressed but it was satisfactory. I hunted with above combo the next day and missed the 1st duck I shot at that morning as a mallard had lit on the ice and missed him with the 1st shot as he was jumped up. Dumped him dead with 2nd shot at an easy 40 yards going from 8 o'clock to 12 o'clock and then pulled on his hen who was ahead and dumped her dead at nearly 50 yards. That was my 1st positive experience with Hevi-Metal. I've since had many many more. I have had more positive results than negative so why switch. I don't care about the companies past reputation as it had no effect on me. This load has been anything but a "cripple load" for me, can I explain why? No I can't. It may be just the #3 pellets at 1500FPS, it may be the Hevi pellets, I don't know nor do I care. I do know that I have more clean kills than I have cripples and I have way less cripples that needed shooting again than I had with the load of #1's I mentioned at the top.....which was a very impressive load for me.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby On the X » Wed Feb 12, 2014 1:13 pm

Yuchi1 wrote:
BTW, I shot some of my "old" Hevi Steel (not, the new crap) in the Beretta 390 with the Terror in .681 & the MII 20 ga. with factory IC & Briley XS in IM and it shot patterns (40 yds.) from 72% to 89%. That, my friend, is the good stuff and if you had it readily available to shoot, the HM crap would quickly become door stops.


I never shot the Hevisteel as i was happy shooting what I was shooting at that time and kinda glad I didn't seeing how it didn't last long. BUT.....when I heard it was comimg back out I hugged my wife and my girlfriend (just kidding) I was so excited, then found out it's Hevisteel in name only and was disappointed to say the least. That being said, I very well may get my hands on some of this new stuff and pattern and try.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby slowshooter » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:16 pm

I'm not to pay extra money to get shells that are going to remove the fun of loading my very own DRT loads.

On the other hand some folks get confidence from HM even though they are shooting well within the distance that steel would work well. If people need to buy confidence and can do so? I say go for it because confidence means everything when you pull up on a critter.

Might not mean much for the shooter - but means everything to the bird you are trying to drop cleanly.
All this for a bowl of borscht.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby On the X » Wed Feb 12, 2014 2:41 pm

slowshooter wrote:I'm not to pay extra money to get shells that are going to remove the fun of loading my very own DRT loads.

On the other hand some folks get confidence from HM even though they are shooting well within the distance that steel would work well. If people need to buy confidence and can do so? I say go for it because confidence means everything when you pull up on a critter.

Might not mean much for the shooter - but means everything to the bird you are trying to drop cleanly.

This post, should right now bring an end to this thread and should be saved for all future threads regarding this debate. Very well done slowshooter.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby mudpack » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:11 pm

Jon Bergren wrote:Those light loads over 1700 fps are fantastic on geese, ducks, pheasants, dove and cranes. Ned S

So are the heavier, slower loads, my friend.

There is no magic in super-fast, super-light loads. If there was we'd all be shooting 1/2 ounce at 2300 fps.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby TomKat » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:28 pm

I am going the other way. Migrating towards 2 3/4" steel loads and letting the birds work closer.
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Re: Put up... or Shut up?

Postby Yuchi1 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:43 pm

On the X wrote:
Yuchi1 wrote:
BTW, I shot some of my "old" Hevi Steel (not, the new crap) in the Beretta 390 with the Terror in .681 & the MII 20 ga. with factory IC & Briley XS in IM and it shot patterns (40 yds.) from 72% to 89%. That, my friend, is the good stuff and if you had it readily available to shoot, the HM crap would quickly become door stops.


I never shot the Hevisteel as i was happy shooting what I was shooting at that time and kinda glad I didn't seeing how it didn't last long. BUT.....when I heard it was comimg back out I hugged my wife and my girlfriend (just kidding) I was so excited, then found out it's Hevisteel in name only and was disappointed to say the least. That being said, I very well may get my hands on some of this new stuff and pattern and try.


Me too, although I don't have high expectations for the stuff.

Reb...take care of that little lady (she's a gem) and remember, she'll probably be the one picking your nursing home!
:wink:
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